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T&W Metro "Commuters frustrated by expert's Metro praise"

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inais20

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Interesting article on the BBC site: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj3036xp6j1o

Jonathan Bray, a consultant who has advised the North East Combined Authority (NECA) on its transport powers, used his blog to describe the network as "Britain's most progressive railway".

Commuter Alex Cox said the article was "clearly authored by someone who has never had to rely on the Metro".

The metro probably could be a forward-thinking transport service, if only it was out of Nexus' hands!
 
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Tetchytyke

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Five years at University to study journalism and creative writing and Jonny Manning bashes that complete and utter drivel out and sits back judging it a job well done. Whatever he's earning from the BBC taxpayer he should pay it back.

No wonder nobody bothers with mainstream media anymore.

For those interested, the blog post in question is here:

Mr Bray points out: the low fares, the fact that all stations are fully accessible, the way the system integrates into the wider transport network, the public art, the fact that mobile phones worked in the tunnels a good 15 years before anywhere else, and the iconic M symbol. And he points out what the system grew out of, a clapped-out and dilapidated local rail network which was teetering on the edge of being shut down entirely by British Rail.

I'd say he was spot on.

The metro probably could be a forward-thinking transport service, if only it was out of Nexus' hands!
It was taken out of Nexus' hands and given to DB Regio. Who then proceeded to absolutely trash the service, fail to maintain any of the trains, and managed to upset all of their staff. DB Regio were so incompetent Nexus had to take back control, at significant cost to the taxpayer.

What short memories people have.
 

GatwickDepress

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Five years at University to study journalism and creative writing and Jonny Manning bashes that complete and utter drivel out and sits back judging it a job well done. Whatever he's earning from the BBC taxpayer he should pay it back.

No wonder nobody bothers with mainstream media anymore.
Come on now, it takes a lot of hard work and effort to scroll Twitter to select which vox pops to use.

It would be an interesting piece if a transport or policy expert discussed Jonathan Bray's article, but random members of the public have nothing to add - especially when the BBC article is shorter than a primary school English essay.
 

inais20

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Five years at University to study journalism and creative writing and Jonny Manning bashes that complete and utter drivel out and sits back judging it a job well done. Whatever he's earning from the BBC taxpayer he should pay it back.
Indeed, I should've been clearer that the linked blog post was more interesting than the BBC article!
 

Paul_10

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Five years at University to study journalism and creative writing and Jonny Manning bashes that complete and utter drivel out and sits back judging it a job well done. Whatever he's earning from the BBC taxpayer he should pay it back.

No wonder nobody bothers with mainstream media anymore.

For those interested, the blog post in question is here:

Mr Bray points out: the low fares, the fact that all stations are fully accessible, the way the system integrates into the wider transport network, the public art, the fact that mobile phones worked in the tunnels a good 15 years before anywhere else, and the iconic M symbol. And he points out what the system grew out of, a clapped-out and dilapidated local rail network which was teetering on the edge of being shut down entirely by British Rail.

I'd say he was spot on.


It was taken out of Nexus' hands and given to DB Regio. Who then proceeded to absolutely trash the service, fail to maintain any of the trains, and managed to upset all of their staff. DB Regio were so incompetent Nexus had to take back control, at significant cost to the taxpayer.

What short memories people have.

I do agree to an extent but it's about timings aswell, if he produced this blog post in the summer for example where the service in theory should be more reliable then it probably wouldn't of recieved the press coverage it has.

Also it does not help he's part of NECA because the cynics would suggest Nexus had an involvement with his blog post.

As for DB Regio then well Nexus were warned about privatisation but still went ahead of it and rejected their own in house bid. I reckon we will still see issues but a good example of cost cutting was in the refurbishment programme where they just refurbished one cab but not the other and it's done in such a way that 'B' end cabs can't be used anymore in service therefore losing flexibility(e.g if the 'A' cab had a fault, the unit might still be able to be used from the other end) and it probably affected reliability aswell.
 

Tetchytyke

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As for DB Regio then well Nexus were warned about privatisation but still went ahead of it and rejected their own in house bid.
Nexus didn't have a choice. The Labour government at the time made the funding for Metro: All Change programme, together with support for the ongoing running costs, contingent on Nexus privatising the operation of the service.

The only criticism I have is that funding for new trains was not sorted out at the same time. The trains were 30 years old at the time of the refurbishment with a life expectancy at manufacture of about 30-35 years; they were obviously not going to be fine for any more than another 5-10 years tops.
 

Paul_10

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Nexus didn't have a choice. The Labour government at the time made the funding for Metro: All Change programme, together with support for the ongoing running costs, contingent on Nexus privatising the operation of the service.

Shows how times change when Labour are now ditching privatisation!
 

DanNCL

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Five years at University to study journalism and creative writing and Jonny Manning bashes that complete and utter drivel out and sits back judging it a job well done. Whatever he's earning from the BBC taxpayer he should pay it back.

No wonder nobody bothers with mainstream media anymore.

For those interested, the blog post in question is here:

Mr Bray points out: the low fares, the fact that all stations are fully accessible, the way the system integrates into the wider transport network, the public art, the fact that mobile phones worked in the tunnels a good 15 years before anywhere else, and the iconic M symbol. And he points out what the system grew out of, a clapped-out and dilapidated local rail network which was teetering on the edge of being shut down entirely by British Rail.

I'd say he was spot on.


It was taken out of Nexus' hands and given to DB Regio. Who then proceeded to absolutely trash the service, fail to maintain any of the trains, and managed to upset all of their staff. DB Regio were so incompetent Nexus had to take back control, at significant cost to the taxpayer.

What short memories people have.
I’m not going to pretend DB Regio were good as they weren’t, but your account of events isn't entirely accurate. DB Regio didn’t have their contract terminated early, they went when their contract expired in 2017 - there was an optional extension to 2019 which wasn’t exercised, publicly cited as being for poor performance, but in reality being more for political reasons. I seem to recall that DB had already decided they would walk away from the contract in 2017 if Nexus hadn’t already chosen not to extend it. Performance, to the surprise of nobody, didn’t improve once DB were out of the picture. Nexus should have been well aware before the DB contract was even awarded that there was always a chance they may have needed to take it back in house again either the end of the contract in 2017 or indeed earlier if DB had chosen to walk away for whatever reason. If Nexus weren’t prepared for it that speaks to Nexus’ incompetence.

It’s worth remembering that when DB Regio won the contract in 2010, they were given an already life expired fleet to use and were expected to run 80 out of 90 Metrocars every single day, something that could only be dreamt of now. At present Nexus are barely managing half that number and last night had to resort to using a 555 on a late evening diagram, something they’d wanted to avoid until the spring.

Nexus continued to upset all the staff when they took over again and things got so bad in 2019, under Nexus management, that trains were regularly being cancelled due to driver shortages.

Noting that NECA refused to state whether Mr Bay was a paid consultant - speaking from experience NECA are usually very quick to point out when someone isn’t on their payroll. So it’s not at all inconceivable that Mr Bay’s article could be something that NECA paid for to give themselves praise at a time when their transport chair is under immense scrutiny for his failings on other matters.

Nexus didn't have a choice. The Labour government at the time made the funding for Metro: All Change programme, together with support for the ongoing running costs, contingent on Nexus privatising the operation of the service.
Nexus could have specified the tender in a way that only their own in house bid would have been able to comply, that would have been permissible with the terms of the funding for All Change. Public sector bodies regularly specify tenders so that only their preferred supplier is capable of meeting all of the requirements.

Shows how times change when Labour are now ditching privatisation!
They’re a few leaders on from then!
 

Tetchytyke

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It’s worth remembering that when DB Regio won the contract in 2010, they were given an already life expired fleet to use and were expected to run 80 out of 90 Metrocars every single day, something that could only be dreamt of now. At present Nexus are barely managing half that number and last night had to resort to using a 555 on a late evening diagram, something they’d wanted to avoid until the spring
The Metrocars weren't life expired in 2010, far from it. They were closer to the end of their career than the start of it, obviously, but the Metrocars should have had another ten years left in them at the time DB Regio got their hands on them. The rot had already started in the last year of DB Regio's tenure and, once old machinery starts failing due to historical poor maintenance, you very quickly end up in a death spiral. As we're seeing now.

The legitimate criticism of Nexus is that the funding for the succession planning wasn't sorted out before, as long ago as 2010. If it had, knowing that 10 years was realistically all you'd get out of 30yo trams, we probably wouldn't be in this mess now. We'd probably also not be in this mess if Nexus had been given the funding for the new trains in 2015 when they first started asking for it.

Nexus aren't responsible for maintaining the Metrocars now, either. Stadler are. And that's why Stadler were fined under the contract last year for failing to get enough Metrocars into service.

The other part of the issue is always with any old trains being maintained by the new train's manufacturer; clearly they want to spend as little as possible to tide them over. We see it all the time, look at the TfW 175s when CAF became responsible for them.

things got so bad in 2019, under Nexus management, that trains were regularly being cancelled due to driver shortages.
Nothing to do with Nexus and everything to do with Arriva Northern- who had their own staffing issues- poaching as many drivers as they could. Manchester Metrolink had a similar issue.

Nexus could have specified the tender in a way that only their own in house bid would have been able to comply, that would have been permissible with the terms of the funding for All Change.
The political message at the time was that that was not an option.

Noting that NECA refused to state whether Mr Bay was a paid consultant - speaking from experience NECA are usually very quick to point out when someone isn’t on their payroll. So it’s not at all inconceivable that Mr Bay’s article could be something that NECA paid for to give themselves praise at a time when their transport chair is under immense scrutiny for his failings on other matters.
The blogpost- I wouldn't even call it an article- was clearly just a collection of Mr Bray's thoughts. Maybe he is or was a consultant with NECA (his CV- linked to on his website- suggests that he was in the past but isn't any longer) but I don't see how that's relevant. It's clearly just What He Reckons. I thought his observations about the system, its history, and its importance were quite interesting.
 

Paul_10

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Forgot to mention, to sum up DB's cost cutting, 4 metrocars were not refurbished and the refurbishment meant refurbished and non refurbished metrocars could not operate in passenger service as a pair. Needless to say, the last refurbishment in the late 90s, metrocars were still able to couple together in service and all 90 metrocars were done out.

I disagree the units were life expired back then but reliability started to dip notably in the mid 10s hence that group was formed.

And I that why this blog post has become more newsworthy than it should be because it seems like it comes from someone with rose tinted specs whereas the more everyday passengers will tell of a very different story.
 

Tetchytyke

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And I that why this blog post has become more newsworthy than it should be because it seems like it comes from someone with rose tinted specs whereas the more everyday passengers will tell of a very different story.
Until I moved here in 2020 I used Metro to commute every single day. The issues are really very simple: light rail vehicles which were built with a 35-40 year life expectancy are now 43 years old and it really shows. New trains needed to be ordered ten years ago but they weren't; instead of giving Metro the funding it needed, the government cut its funding by £40m or so in 2015.

I don't see why an opinion blog about how important the system is to the region, and how transformative the system was compared to what went before, needs to repeat what we all know: knackered old life-expired trains are unreliable.
 

DanNCL

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The Metrocars weren't life expired in 2010, far from it. They were closer to the end of their career than the start of it, obviously, but the Metrocars should have had another ten years left in them at the time DB Regio got their hands on them. The rot had already started in the last year of DB Regio's tenure and, once old machinery starts failing due to historical poor maintenance, you very quickly end up in a death spiral. As we're seeing now.

The legitimate criticism of Nexus is that the funding for the succession planning wasn't sorted out before, as long ago as 2010. If it had, knowing that 10 years was realistically all you'd get out of 30yo trams, we probably wouldn't be in this mess now. We'd probably also not be in this mess if Nexus had been given the funding for the new trains in 2015 when they first started asking for it.

Nexus aren't responsible for maintaining the Metrocars now, either. Stadler are. And that's why Stadler were fined under the contract last year for failing to get enough Metrocars into service.

The other part of the issue is always with any old trains being maintained by the new train's manufacturer; clearly they want to spend as little as possible to tide them over. We see it all the time, look at the TfW 175s when CAF became responsible for them.
The Metrocars had a design life of 30 years - that ran out in 2010.

Half of the issues with Stadler maintenance is that they’re maintaining this fleet in a new depot that isn’t suitable for them. The better option would have been to keep the old depot until the Metrocars had gone and to replace it with the new depot in the late 2020s.

Nothing to do with Nexus and everything to do with Arriva Northern- who had their own staffing issues- poaching as many drivers as they could. Manchester Metrolink had a similar issue.
It was on Nexus as if morale had been higher fewer drivers would have left. Not everyone that left went to the mainline, a lot simply left the railway altogether.

The blogpost- I wouldn't even call it an article- was clearly just a collection of Mr Bray's thoughts. Maybe he is or was a consultant with NECA (his CV- linked to on his website- suggests that he was in the past but isn't any longer) but I don't see how that's relevant. It's clearly just What He Reckons. I thought his observations about the system, its history, and its importance were quite interesting.
I would agree about its history and importance but I think that what he said reflects what Metro was like 30 years ago, not today. There’s a lot more wrong with Metro than just old trains.
 

bramling

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The Metrocars had a design life of 30 years - that ran out in 2010.

Half of the issues with Stadler maintenance is that they’re maintaining this fleet in a new depot that isn’t suitable for them. The better option would have been to keep the old depot until the Metrocars had gone and to replace it with the new depot in the late 2020s.


It was on Nexus as if morale had been higher fewer drivers would have left. Not everyone that left went to the mainline, a lot simply left the railway altogether.


I would agree about its history and importance but I think that what he said reflects what Metro was like 30 years ago, not today. There’s a lot more wrong with Metro than just old trains.

On the latter point, surprised no one has mentioned anti-social behaviour yet. Someone used to even the suburban rail network in London will find the metro quite shocking, especially in the evening and at times like summer weekends.
 

Tetchytyke

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It was on Nexus as if morale had been higher fewer drivers would have left.
Nah, people left for money. I don’t blame them, I would too, but it was money. Metrolink had the same problem and only dealt with it by giving their drivers a 14% pay rise over two years. As Metro was losing money, Nexus’ hands were more heavily tied.

There’s a lot more wrong with Metro than just old trains.
I don’t think there is. The old trains are unreliable and because- understandably- Stadler are doing the bare minimum, they look tatty and unloved too.

I think that when the trains come in a lot of the unloved feeling about the place will go. It would be nice for them to deal with the water ingress in some of the sub-surface stations though.
On the latter point, surprised no one has mentioned anti-social behaviour yet. Someone used to even the suburban rail network in London will find the metro quite shocking, especially in the evening and at times like summer weekends.
The new trains will assist with the anti-social behaviour as the scrotes won’t be able to hide in the rear set knowing there’s no staff to do anything about them.

The anti-social behaviour isn’t new, either. Attached is a photo (stock- from Alamy) showing what Smith’s Park station (renamed as Meadow Well in 1994) looked like in the very early 1990s.

 

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Segedunum

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I don’t think there is. The old trains are unreliable and because- understandably- Stadler are doing the bare minimum, they look tatty and unloved too.

I think that when the trains come in a lot of the unloved feeling about the place will go. It would be nice for them to deal with the water ingress in some of the sub-surface stations though.

The new trains will assist with the anti-social behaviour as the scrotes won’t be able to hide in the rear set knowing there’s no staff to do anything about them.

The anti-social behaviour isn’t new, either. Attached is a photo (stock- from Alamy) showing what Smith’s Park station (renamed as Meadow Well in 1994) looked like in the very early 1990s.

The issue isn't necessarily that Stadler are doing the bare minimum (though many of the trains do look tired with remnants of graffiti, bubbling paint etc.) but that when you have an event like Wednesday night into Thursday morning where the cold weather knackers more than a third of the scheduled service for the morning, it becomes a constant battle to keep everything running *and* have enough sets spare. There are proactive attempts to mitigate this from across the business (outstabling in City Centre stations last night meant a much better level of service today) but at the end of the day, they're a fleet approaching 50 years old.

Amusingly, on the anti-social behaviour, I've been out on the new fleet extensively in the past week and the only negative comments I've overheard regarding the walkthrough nature of the sets have been from kids and those who you'd (perhaps stereotypically) assume want to have somewhere to hide. They're also covered in CCTV and can be remotely monitored from the control centre, which will probably come as a shock to some when they try to kick off. The photo of Smith's Park is also an example of how things have genuinely improved - graffiti on stations is seen as an SQR (Service Quality Regime) failure and will be dealt with as a priority. It's also usually rare to see a train tagged out in service (and you can't have anything where door buttons are covered out in service).

As for the blog post, it's evident that it's discussing Metro as a concept and its features, not the day-to-day running. It's a bit of a strange thing to get angry at but considering the amount of issues Metro has faced (the largest not being of its own making) in recent weeks, as well as the focus on the new fleet, I'm not entirely surprised that all eyes are on Metro and it's a hot topic for the BBC to latch onto.
 
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DanNCL

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I don’t think there is. The old trains are unreliable and because- understandably- Stadler are doing the bare minimum, they look tatty and unloved too.

I think that when the trains come in a lot of the unloved feeling about the place will go. It would be nice for them to deal with the water ingress in some of the sub-surface stations though.

The new trains will assist with the anti-social behaviour as the scrotes won’t be able to hide in the rear set knowing there’s no staff to do anything about them.

The anti-social behaviour isn’t new, either. Attached is a photo (stock- from Alamy) showing what Smith’s Park station (renamed as Meadow Well in 1994) looked like in the very early 1990s.

There’s an ever increasing number of infrastructure issues and new trains won’t solve them. The signalling is approaching end of life and needs replacing in the not too distant future, there’s an increasing number of OHLE issues causing disruption too.

Some of the stations, not all of them underground either, are really looking tired now.
 

hacman

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It's also worth remembering that not only did the existing fleet have a design life of 30 years, which would put them at life-expiry around 2010, but for part of their life they were worked harder than planned at design due to the extension to Sunderland being completed with no additional rolling stock.

As mentioned earlier, previous timetables required 90% or higher of the fleet to be operational - the sort of numbers that have only started to become commonplace in the last 20 years or so with newer designs of rolling stock being highly modular, allowing for very rapid maintenance.

As for the OHLE issues, a number of these are being caused by the ageing fleet, and we should see a substantial reduction once 555s are operating the majority of services (the single pantograph design will help too by way of eliminating standing waves). Much of the OHLE on Nexus infrastructure has been replaced or rehabilitated in the last 10 years. I'm not sure what the state of the Network Rail owned stuff is though, and some interesting conversations will likely come up in the next 10 years as that equipment reaches the end of its working life.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Nah, people left for money. I don’t blame them, I would too, but it was money. Metrolink had the same problem and only dealt with it by giving their drivers a 14% pay rise over two years. As Metro was losing money, Nexus’ hands were more heavily tied.

On this matter, you need to account for the fact that morale, pay and several other factors are all related. The amount of money on offer directly affects people's tolerance to any BS in the workplace, and vice-versa.

Ultimately you can pay people all the money in the world and if the place is still lousy to work in, you'll still get turnover. Just the same as people will sometimes stay in a workplace (or move and take a pay cut) if the work environment is pleasant, has good benefits (work-life balance being one) or has other appealing factors, such as being closer to home, etc.

Pay, morale, working conditions and so on are all complex and interlinked, and all need to be addressed in equal measure otherwise the whole thing becomes an exercise in futility. People still would have left for more cash, but if morale and the working environment were better the impact would have almost certainly been less substantial.
 
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Tetchytyke

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The issue isn't necessarily that Stadler are doing the bare minimum (though many of the trains do look tired with remnants of graffiti, bubbling paint etc.) but that when you have an event like Wednesday night into Thursday morning where the cold weather knackers more than a third of the scheduled service for the morning, it becomes a constant battle to keep everything running *and* have enough sets spare.
I'm possibly being a bit harsh on Stadler but there is the dilemma all operators face when they're in the process of introducing new rolling stock. They don't want to spend money on the old stock if they can avoid it so, inevitably, they end up spending the bare minimum to keep the show on the road. It's not a new thing, look how the reliability of TfW's 175s dropped through the floor when responsibility for them transferred to CAF.

I think it is telling that the cosmetic issues with the Metrocars- graffiti remnants, damaged moquette, etc- aren't really being dealt with anymore. But, in fairness to Stadler, if a third of your fleet throws a wobbler every time it's a bit chilly then you don't have the spare capacity to fix things up properly. A tatty train is better than no train, after all.
Ultimately you can pay people all the money in the world and if the place is still lousy to work in, you'll still get turnover.
I completely agree however Metro drivers were getting about £30k and Northern were offering closer to £50k. That turned an awful lot of heads and you can certainly see why.
 
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