T Keys

[ChrisTheRef]

How easy is it to get hold of National Rail "T keys"?

Saw someone in Liverpool today, wasn't wearing any uniform or any kind of ID, opened the crew door on a 150, then produced a T key to open the passenger doors and allow himself to board a train stabled on platform 2.

I didn't think it'd be the kind of thing you can buy

 

[Jordy]

No they are for rail staff only, he'd get a good telling off if he was found with one!

 

[AlexS]

They are for sale in various places, however you do generally need to have some affiliation with a railway company whether it's a preserved one or national rail one to get one from a supplier.

They can generally be found knocking around railwayana swap meets and other such places as well. They usually get knocked off EBay however.

 

[Old Timer]

How easy is it to get hold of National Rail "T keys"?

Saw someone in Liverpool today, wasn't wearing any uniform or any kind of ID, opened the crew door on a 150, then produced a T key to open the passenger doors and allow himself to board a train stabled on platform 2.

I didn't think it'd be the kind of thing you can buy

One for the BT Police to deal with I think !

Section 10(2) of the Railway Byelaws

 

[First class]

Well why you didn't contact an officer/staff member is beyond me. I thought we were all supposed to do our bit to prevent terrorism etc.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Well why you didn't contact an officer/staff member is beyond me. I thought we were all supposed to do our bit to prevent terrorism etc.

Because I was sat on a train which was literally pulling out of the station from platform 5. Obviously, if I could have done, I would have

 

[HSTfan!!!]

unfortunately easy enough to get hold of, if you got caught... well it wouldn't be pretty

 

[Trains06]

I have one, my grandad and his brother both used to be railway staff but I didn't get it off them and none of the railway staff who have seen me with it have had a problem. I've never used it badly though. Normally its just stashed in a cabinet :P

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It's more using it than having it Trains06.

 

[321446]

It's more using it than having it Trains06.

Or what you use it FOR. When not involved in my daily, train related, duties, it can be quite handy as a nut-cracker, toffee-slab-breaker-upper or tack-hammer. It should never be used for anything directly train related (although the above do relate, you get very hungry on nights & sometimes need a little diversion/light d.i.y. in the Hut) unless you have a reason to be doing it/opening it. Here endeth the lesson.

p.s. Also handy for throwing at paint sprayers, but you didn't read that here.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Yes, I meant using it for trains rather than DIY!

 

[Aictos]

They are for sale in various places, however you do generally need to have some affiliation with a railway company whether it's a preserved one or national rail one to get one from a supplier.

They can generally be found knocking around railwayana swap meets and other such places as well. They usually get knocked off EBay however.

Why bother with these places when screwdrivers, car keys etc...do the job just as well?

A few months ago, the BTP in Peterborough were working at the station and pulled up quite a lot of people who had various tools on them using them to access the staff gate even though it's obviously been marked that it's not a exit or entry point.

I know people have to use it such as drivers, cleaners, other station staff etc..but the only reason people use the ramp footbridge is to use that gate, never mind the fact that there's a quicker route out of the station via the main entrance with even quicker access to taxis.

East Coast really needs to do more to stop the abuse of this gate, maybe a keypad lock would do well.

 

[Ferret]

unfortunately easy enough to get hold of, if you got caught... well it wouldn't be pretty

Don't you believe it. The infamous Carl Heywood was caught with not only T-keys but CDL keys too. BTP confiscated them and he merely got a slap on the wrist. Hardly a surprise that from there he graduated to ticket fraud on a scale of several thousand pounds is it?!

 

[Crossforth]

What are T keys actually used for apart from opening doors?

 

[GB]

Things like that can be found on Ebay from time to time and only get withdrawn if someone reports it, even then it might take a couple of days.

There was a bloke on here a couple of months back selling all manner of things including expired detotnators:roll: took a couple of days for the item listing to be withdrawn even after several reports to ebay.

 

[Mojo]

What are T keys actually used for apart from opening doors?

Various cupboards on trains, operating door key switches on certain trains, toilets, wheelchair ramps on platforms, opening staff only doors at certain stations, opening cab doors on certain trains, CD/RA indicators, waking up drunk people by banging it on the handrails, etc.

 

[Aictos]

Various cupboards on trains, operating door key switches on certain trains, toilets, wheelchair ramps on platforms, opening staff only doors at certain stations, opening cab doors on certain trains, CD/RA indicators, waking up drunk people by banging it on the handrails, etc.

Oh you don't use a T Key to wake up drunk people, just use your whistle or as one colleague said, use one of these airhorns

 

[starrymarkb]

Don't you believe it. The infamous Carl Heywood was caught with not only T-keys but CDL keys too. BTP confiscated them and he merely got a slap on the wrist. Hardly a surprise that from there he graduated to ticket fraud on a scale of several thousand pounds is it?!

I know there was an incident in Devon where a someone managed to steal an Advantix machine from a cab (presumably using keys) - it was soon noticed that a lot of the local cranks had 2 week first class ALRs.

Edit: Oh that's the Guy...

 

[Ferret]

Yes - he got sentenced to 12 months yet seemed to be out after 2. I'm sure he was popular in prison!

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Is it seriously as easy as pressing "Buy it now" on here?

I'm now quite worried about my personal safety

 

[adc82140]

You'd think in this day and age that there'd be a more secure way of locking cab doors etc.

Surely newer stock is more sophisticated?

At work we have proximity access cards that double as our photo ID- security can view exactly what our card has been used to open, time control access and restrict access to groups of users or even individual users. All this on the NHS budget as well.

 

[Mojo]

That's not a railway TKey, the end looks a bit too tapered and also key slots on modern trains have a bit sticking out that fits into the circular cut out.

 

[DavidBusDriver]

Hi all,

T-Keys are useful in the bus driving community as sometimes the door latches on security screened cab doors have a T-Key socket to open it from the outside.

Or, as a bus preservationist they come in more than useful to open the side engine bays on my Olympian, or the fuse panel, or destination box.

Never thought about the toffee hammer yet though but might give it a go

 

[Aictos]

You'd think in this day and age that there'd be a more secure way of locking cab doors etc.

Surely newer stock is more sophisticated?

At work we have proximity access cards that double as our photo ID- security can view exactly what our card has been used to open, time control access and restrict access to groups of users or even individual users. All this on the NHS budget as well.

Well at my old workplace, they decided to extend a system very much like the one you are referring to to practically every internal door including the staff toilets which didn't go down too well as management could see how often it was used, not only that but there was a stink about the privacy that comes with the toilets.

Saying that though, I for one wonder if it ever would be trialled on stations instead of using keys to secure non public areas.

 

[Trains06]

When I have it out I tend to use it for hammering small nails in

 

[Ferret]

I know there was an incident in Devon where a someone managed to steal an Advantix machine from a cab (presumably using keys) - it was soon noticed that a lot of the local cranks had 2 week first class ALRs.

Edit: Oh that's the Guy...

For those that are unsure of who I refer to, here is the link, though it seems he doesn't like to be reminded of the fact that he was convicted for a serious criminal offence....

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/End-of-the-line-for.4558930.jp

 

[321446]

You'd think in this day and age that there'd be a more secure way of locking cab doors etc.

Surely newer stock is more sophisticated?

At work we have proximity access cards that double as our photo ID- security can view exactly what our card has been used to open, time control access and restrict access to groups of users or even individual users. All this on the NHS budget as well.

I suppose it all comes down to money. Unless it was proven that the cost would solve all occurances of unlawfull access, I can't see my company carrying the expense!! While the external doors on our units are T-key accessed, internal doors, some equipment cupboards & a few gates are 21-key locked. All our drivers need said key to operate the door circuits, so should have one on them. Whether 21-keys are sufficiently unavailable to people in the real world to make it worthwhile putting on more cupboards etc I suppose comes down to cost again. And again, some units have different keys again for external access (locos - prob to stop inquisitive drivers when they left in yards).

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Isn't a BR 1 for door circuts and other locks?

 

[Kneedown]

One for the BT Police to deal with I think !

Section 10(2) of the Railway Byelaws

"Going Equipped for Theft" is also another likely possibility.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Tampering with Railway Equipment - a possiblilty as well.