SWT Windsor Lines WTT operations

[heart-of-wessex]

Please feel free to move this thread if it's in the wrong place, but it is about the running lines noted in the Working Time Tables.

Now, on the Windsor Lines between Clapham and Barnes, there is 4 lines, in this formation:

Down Windsor Slow -->
Down Windsor Fast -->
Up Windsor Fast <--
Up Windsor Slow <--

What I noticed in the Working TT is that the fasts or semi fasts like the Reading's run non stop on the Down Windsor Slow. Any stoppers, like the Waterloo circuits call at all stations on the Down Windsor Fast.

In the opposite direction however, up fast and slow services are on the respective lines, I.E Reading fasts use the Up Windsor Fast.

If I remember rightly on the Down Slow, you have to slow down for the turnout onto the Down Fast at Barnes? If that's the case then is this slowing down the fast's that are running on the slows?

I've only done the Windsor's some years ago and not really noted this. I am just wondering what the reason is that's all, just seems odd how the Down services seem to be booked on different lines compared to the Up services.

Has this always been the case?

 

[gswindale]

Which day(s) are you looking at?

When we last travelled in, the Reading train certainly used the "fasts" through Barnes to Clapham Junction.

If you're looking at this weekends services, then I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the revised calling patterns due to the enhanced service from Reading?

 

[JonathanH]

Please feel free to move this thread if it's in the wrong place, but it is about the running lines noted in the Working Time Tables.

Now, on the Windsor Lines between Clapham and Barnes, there is 4 lines, in this formation:

Down Windsor Slow -->
Down Windsor Fast -->
Up Windsor Fast <--
Up Windsor Slow <--

What I noticed in the Working TT is that the fasts or semi fasts like the Reading's run non stop on the Down Windsor Slow. Any stoppers, like the Waterloo circuits call at all stations on the Down Windsor Fast.

In the opposite direction however, up fast and slow services are on the respective lines, I.E Reading fasts use the Up Windsor Fast.

If I remember rightly on the Down Slow, you have to slow down for the turnout onto the Down Fast at Barnes? If that's the case then is this slowing down the fast's that are running on the slows?

I've only done the Windsor's some years ago and not really noted this. I am just wondering what the reason is that's all, just seems odd how the Down services seem to be booked on different lines compared to the Up services.

Has this always been the case?

Prior to December 2004, stopping services used the inner lines as that is where the ticket offices and platform staff are located. The changes in December 2004 moved up stopping services to the up slow as this was the most efficient way of operating the junction at Barnes with the increase in stopping services from the Hounslow loop. The current arrangement minimizes conflicts at Barnes.

 

[wimbledonpete]

Prior to December 2004, stopping services used the inner lines as that is where the ticket offices and platform staff are located. The changes in December 2004 moved up stopping services to the up slow as this was the most efficient way of operating the junction at Barnes with the increase in stopping services from the Hounslow loop. The current arrangement minimizes conflicts at Barnes.

Yup, so the actual operation Clapham Junction to Barnes is:

Down Windsor Fast
Down Windsor Slow
Up Windsor Fast
Up Windsor Slow

(Whether or not they are actually referred to as that I can't say but as Jonathan says that's the way the Mon-Sat service works. It does mean that at Wandsworth Town in the Up direction there is an almighty jump from the train to the platform.)

Just realised, Heart of Wessex - I think you have your Down and your Up confused. The Down service runs as it always has, with the Readings and Windsors on the outer track. It's the Up services that were switched over.

 

[NSEFAN]

I believe the lines are referred to as:

DWS
DWF
UWF
UWS

but as has been said this doesn't relate much to the service pattern these days. Is the linespeed the same on both fast and slow?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Just realised, Heart of Wessex - I think you have your Down and your Up confused. The Down service runs as it always has, with the Readings and Windsors on the outer track. It's the Up services that were switched over.

I haven't, that's what I was talking about, mainly as the Down outer track is the Down Windsor Slow, hence I was wondering why the fast's run on the slow, where as the Up Fasts (to Waterloo from Reading etc) run on the inner line, which is the Up Windsor Fast.

I did wonder if it had some relation to ticket offices, machines, staff or something, thank's for the replies

 

[wimbledonpete]

I haven't, that's what I was talking about, mainly as the Down outer track is the Down Windsor Slow, hence I was wondering why the fast's run on the slow, where as the Up Fasts (to Waterloo from Reading etc) run on the inner line, which is the Up Windsor Fast.

I did wonder if it had some relation to ticket offices, machines, staff or something, thank's for the replies

Oh I see, sorry! That's me not knowing the official designation - for as long as I can remember the fasts used the outside pair and the slows the middle pair, until the change a few years ago to the Up pairing. All very confusing!

 

[30907]

The practice is of very long standing, at least on the down line: the summer 1959 WTT shows nearly all fasts on the down Local (SR designation) and stoppers on the down Main, but not 100% - apart from the issues at Barnes Jn, I wonder if this also kept the down Local clear for workings via Point Pleasant Jn to Wimbledon Park (and beyond) including trains coming out of Clapham Yard?

On the ups, the majority of stoppers used the Up Local but by no means all - this being before the booking offices were resited I guess.

 

[455driver]

Its to do with Barnes jn and also the platform heights, by the down fast (Reading) trains using the down slow line they can no straight on at Barnes jn without conflict (due through at xx02/xx32), if the Readings used the DWFL then if they were running 2 minutes late, they would conflict with the down Hounslow (via Brentford) service which crosses across the up lines to get towards Putney at xx05/xx35, if they ran the down fast trains on the down fast lines (and the down slow trains on the down fast lines) then they would conflict as the Hounslow (via Brentford) would need to cross the down fast as well just after the down Reading is due through.

The platform heights on the down slow line are also sub standard with a big drop from the train to the platform.

 

[Monty]

The platform heights on the down slow line are also sub standard with a big drop from the train to the platform.

Quite, the platform on the Down Slow at Wandsworth Town can only be described as a gaping chasm.