SWT unofficial driver work to rule...another Southern in the making?

[embers25]

Does anyone know what the dispute is about? The first guy at Salisbury said there was no dispute but a manager there did admit it and mentioned problems at Winchester(?! ) and with route learning for Yeovil to Weymouth. Anyway net result was 1320 and 1520 waterloo to Exeter were cancelled today from Salisbury along with their return workings to Salisbury and this has been happening on a lesser scale for a while now but it's getting worse. Manager did say that after watching today he was very frustrated and would be implementing a Southern style system of telling passengers at the beginning of the day which trains would be cancelled so we will see if that materialises. More summer of discontent?

 

[pompeyfan]

Or it could just be not enough drivers have the route on their card?

 

[embers25]

Or it could just be not enough drivers have the route on their card?

I'd agree with that for Yeovil to Weymouth which we know keeps getting caped but not for Exeter even though each trip takes 2 drivers. Also it isn't just Exeter runs being cancelled and several guards have mentioned unofficial action too.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

A lot of driver training in progress, plus route learning for those who've just moved into the depot, plus it's school holiday period, so more drivers don't want to work their rest days, especially when you have good weather.

Also the rate of pay for working a rest day is no longer paid at enhanced rate, so in effect you're working an extra day for less than a normal days pay (after tax, NI and other deductions) so quite a few say no to rest day working.

And before people get on their high horse and say that's unofficial action, no it's not, any member of staff has the absolute right not to work their day's off.

And I am one who doesn't and won't until they pay enhanced rates for rest day working.

 

[TheManBehind]

Does anyone know what the dispute is about? The first guy at Salisbury said there was no dispute but a manager there did admit it and mentioned problems at Winchester(?! ) and with route learning for Yeovil to Weymouth. Anyway net result was 1320 and 1520 waterloo to Exeter were cancelled today from Salisbury along with their return workings to Salisbury and this has been happening on a lesser scale for a while now but it's getting worse. Manager did say that after watching today he was very frustrated and would be implementing a Southern style system of telling passengers at the beginning of the day which trains would be cancelled so we will see if that materialises. More summer of discontent?

"Winchester Agreement" I think is the term you're talking about. Enacted when a suitable roster cannot be agreed between Company and Staff reps. Not sure of the specifics (my depot didn't go on it while I was there) but it changes how duties being allocated to drivers, along with shift movements and spare turns, etc. works.

Not industrial action, but an agreed procedure between union and Company. They don't normally take that long to get resolved.

 

[ComUtoR]

And I am one who doesn't and won't until they pay enhanced rates for rest day working.

Greedy bloody unionists. I pay your wages. Its unfair on the passengers. Selfish behaviour. I lost 3 jobs and my kids were 6 hours late from school due to cancellations. Work to rule us unofficial strike action and illegal. If you don't like it, quit.

 

[Seaeagle]

Greedy bloody unionists. I pay your wages. Its unfair on the passengers. Selfish behaviour. I lost 3 jobs and my kids were 6 hours late from school due to cancellations. Work to rule us unofficial strike action and illegal. If you don't like it, quit.

And if every driver quit where would we be?

Since when is having a your own rostered rest day off unofficial action

P.S you don't pay anyone's wages, you just make the fat cats that bit richer!

 

[bb21]

And if every driver quit where would we be?

Since when is having a your own rostered rest day off unofficial action

P.S you don't pay anyone's wages, you just make the fat cats that bit richer!

I think your irony-o-meter is slightly off.

 

[74A]

Also the rate of pay for working a rest day is no longer paid at enhanced rate, so in effect you're working an extra day for less than a normal days pay (after tax, NI and other deductions) so quite a few say no to rest day working.
.

I am surprised at that. I would have thought the rate of pay for a rest day would have been part of your contract and not something the company could change.

 

[Bald Rick]

.

Also the rate of pay for working a rest day is no longer paid at enhanced rate, so in effect you're working an extra day for less than a normal days pay (after tax, NI and other deductions) so quite a few say no to rest day working.

I don't quite understand this. I get that it isn't an enhanced rate, but how does it work out at less than normal pay? I'd have thought that 'overtime' being non-pensionable, it would be worth more than normal?

 

[Matt Taylor]

Because you pay tax and NI on the full payment whereas you only pay tax and NI on a portion of your standard weekly wage.

This issue only affects Salisbury as far as I know, certainly no problems at Fratton. And the situation at Southern is completely different.

 

[The Ham]

I don't quite understand this. I get that it isn't an enhanced rate, but how does it work out at less than normal pay? I'd have thought that 'overtime' being non-pensionable, it would be worth more than normal?

In very simple terms(as I understand it) if you are paid £20,000 per year you only pay tax on 50% of those earnings (£10,000 tax free allowance), which means that if you are taxed at 20% you pay £2,000 in tax.

If you earn a further£10,000 you still pay £2,000 in tax, even though you have only earned half as much.

Depending on your view, some would rather not work as their take home salary is less per hour. However, others take the view that although they are paying proportional more tax the amount of money that they earn over the year is more.

Different people have different priorities, if a TOC has more of the first then they have to have more staff than those who have more of the latter.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

If Salisbury is on the Winchester Agreement, then it can make things tricky to book work out which would normally be quite easy to cover, as the amount of movement allowed is reduced as is the amount of overtime.

It's not unofficial action, it's put in place to prevent it, sometimes the problem gets resolved quickly, others it can take months.

As stated it's an agreement that was designed by both sides, so it's not unofficial action, like it or not.

Greedy bloody unionists. I pay your wages. Its unfair on the passengers. Selfish behaviour. I lost 3 jobs and my kids were 6 hours late from school due to cancellations. Work to rule us unofficial strike action and illegal. If you don't like it, quit.

Really? Your season ticket wouldn't pay more than 3 months wages. I don't do anything over my day unless I'm obliged to, overtime is optional, hence the term "over time" and it's not paid at enhanced rate either so is not worth much after tax, especially if you are a 40% tax payer.

 

[TEW]

Because you pay tax and NI on the full payment whereas you only pay tax and NI on a portion of your standard weekly wage.

This issue only affects Salisbury as far as I know, certainly no problems at Fratton. And the situation at Southern is completely different.

Did seem to be isolated shortages at other depots whilst a certain football tournament was on recently, but it's not really a surprise that less people would want to work rest days if England are playing. Salisbury does seem to be the only depot with ongoing shortages though.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Don't forget that it's the only SW depot to sign to Bristol and sign Westbury to Yeovil Junction via Pen Mill, it's also the only depot that signs all the way from Waterloo to Exeter and Pen Mill to Weymouth.

Of course they're going to look after the main route first, rather than the sub-routes.

It's also a one trick pony depot in that it only signs diesel traction.

 

[ComUtoR]

Really? Your season ticket wouldn't pay more than 3 months wages. I don't do anything over my day unless I'm obliged to, overtime is optional, hence the term "over time" and it's not paid at enhanced rate either so is not worth much after tax, especially if you are a 40% tax payer.

I think everyones irony-o-meter is off today . Did you not see the devilish smiley ? I think I have a Drivers sense of humour.

Having everyones rant in a single post is just a shortcut so we can skip the insults and debate things properly. Its just gonna be another thread with the same tedious arguments about poor rosters, unions, reliance on RDW and "overtime" and wether of not an employee should be a slave to their company as the should be grateful to have a job.


FYI my "season ticket" is worth a pretty penny actually. It's purple

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Oh FFS.

 

[ComUtoR]

Oh FFS.

Oh Harley ♥♥ I'm sure we have posted in the same threads many times. I've never actually figured out how much my pass is worth but I have a thought that it would be well in excess of 3 months pay. I do admit that I'm interested to know how much a whole network pass for a year would be (including all the TOC's on the list)

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't quite understand this. I get that it isn't an enhanced rate, but how does it work out at less than normal pay? I'd have thought that 'overtime' being non-pensionable, it would be worth more than normal?

It's also a normal feature of the tax system, nothing unique to train driver's overtime at all.

 

[Monty]

Only 10 or so drivers sign the route down to Weymouth and as far as I know route learning has not been fully completed yet.

As previously mentioned the 'Winchester Agreement' is an entirely seperate issue and rarely (if ever) results in a train being cancelled.

 

[Haig paxton]

I think your irony-o-meter is slightly off.

Ironically it was sarcasm.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Apologies for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick.

Perhaps a moderator could adjust things so they're not quite so fraught.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

A five day week was fought for hard and long on LU. It has benefitted drivers by having a more reasonable work-life balance and a decent salary. It also benefits the company by not having to rely on the 'goodwill' of the staff to enable the ordinary service to be run.
It also increases the number of drivers providing more jobs for people.
Why are so many companies and staff still stuck in the past with their desire for overtime ?

 

[Juniper Driver]

Greedy bloody unionists. I pay your wages. Its unfair on the passengers. Selfish behaviour. I lost 3 jobs and my kids were 6 hours late from school due to cancellations. Work to rule us unofficial strike action and illegal. If you don't like it, quit.

Got me there.

 

[Lrd]

A five day week was fought for hard and long on LU. It has benefitted drivers by having a more reasonable work-life balance and a decent salary. It also benefits the company by not having to rely on the 'goodwill' of the staff to enable the ordinary service to be run.

If it is so good then why are they trialling a four day week on one line?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

A 4 day week is a pain, because you can end up with a single day off and two others somewhere else in the week.

I would prefer blocks of 3.

 

[Harbornite]

Really? Your season ticket wouldn't pay more than 3 months wages. I don't do anything over my day unless I'm obliged to, overtime is optional, hence the term "over time" and it's not paid at enhanced rate either so is not worth much after tax, especially if you are a 40% tax payer.

Take it from me, he was extracting the urine.

 

[philthetube]

If it is so good then why are they trialling a four day week on one line?

How many days LU drivers do is irrelevant to this discussion, what matters is that LU employ enough drivers to cover the rota with spares, this leaves them far less vulnerable to being affected by events such as football, weather, school hols or lack of goodwill.

 

[Bromley boy]

In very simple terms(as I understand it) if you are paid £20,000 per year you only pay tax on 50% of those earnings (£10,000 tax free allowance), which means that if you are taxed at 20% you pay £2,000 in tax.

If you earn a further£10,000 you still pay £2,000 in tax, even though you have only earned half as much.

Depending on your view, some would rather not work as their take home salary is less per hour. However, others take the view that although they are paying proportional more tax the amount of money that they earn over the year is more.

Different people have different priorities, if a TOC has more of the first then they have to have more staff than those who have more of the latter.

I never really understand this argument. You pay tax + NI on your earned income. If you aggregate your income up at the end of the year you will simply have paid 40% on everything you've earned above the 40% tax threshold with no distinction between basic salary and overtime (although I take the point overtime is not pensionable in the way basic salary is).

If you do lots of overtime you may have taken home less PER HOUR than someone who does no overtime, but you will still have earned a higher gross salary, taken home more cash after tax over the year than someone who has done no overtime, which is surely the reason people work overtime?!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A five day week was fought for hard and long on LU. It has benefitted drivers by having a more reasonable work-life balance and a decent salary. It also benefits the company by not having to rely on the 'goodwill' of the staff to enable the ordinary service to be run.
It also increases the number of drivers providing more jobs for people.
Why are so many companies and staff still stuck in the past with their desire for overtime ?

I suspect because it benefits both company and employee. It's cheaper for the company to employ a smaller number of staff, some of whom are willing to work overtime, than to employ a larger pool of staff on the basic salary.

Employees benefit because they have the flexibility to boost their income by working overtime, but no with compulsion to do so.

The trick for the company, of course, is ensuring the overtime rate paid incentivises sufficient staff to work in order to deliver the service required!

 

[ComUtoR]

A 4 day week is a pain, because you can end up with a single day off and two others somewhere else in the week.

Blocks of 3 can be just as painful and a well balanced roster is hard to achieve. Personally I don't understand why the are so rigid on the shift system. I'd go 4 on 4 off.

Work/Life balance is easier when you have blocks of days off and the floating day is usually the Sunday (for us)

We also still have link working so that can also have a detrimental effect to some extent.