SWT to reduce ticket office hours (again)

[wintonian]

It appears that SWT are trying to reduce the amount of hours that some ticket offices are open again.

What with this 2nd attempt and the closure of praticaly all it not all the travel centers and the large increase in TVM's at stations it seems that SWT would rather run their stations wihout ticket offices and staff.

It also appears that Smartcard ticketing is set extend to; Waymouth - Basingstoke, Staines - Wokingham and on the Ise of Wight, this spring.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/ticketofficeopeninghours.aspx

 

[thefab444]

I guess the majority of those morning-only ticket offices only exist to allow season ticket holders to renew. It would make commercial sense to close them, seeing as the only type of season you can't renew on a TVM is annual, and then you've only got to make a trip to a larger station once a year!

I can see slashing Sunday openings being attractive, given low numbers of pax and presumably higher rates of pay for staff?

 

[Aictos]

Be careful here, SWT might just decide to go with the FCC approach and close on Sundays regardless of how busy that booking office might be or not be, whatever the case might be.

As a comparsion and bear in mind I do not use SWT services regularly.

Hertford North in 2007 to 2008 served 1.202 million passengers with changes to ticket office opening hours being:

Monday-Friday 06:40-19:00
Saturday 07:45-14:10
Sunday Closed*

* Only open when Arsenal are at home.

Cuffley in the same period of 2007 to 2008 served 0.617 million passengers with changes to ticket office opening hours being:

Monday-Friday 06:40-18:30
Saturday 07:35-14:00
Sunday 09:00-14:45

My point being the booking office doesn't need to be busy to be shut on Sundays as proved above, if the booking office was only open in the mornings then yes I could see their point but don't think the extra money that SWT will save will go on investment but rather to their shareholders.

Indeed, there has been nothing but trouble with the Sunday opening hours at my station as not only is Hertford East booking office closed but the TVMs can only issue certain tickets and that's when they're working.

What can platform staff do when a TVM takes a passenger's money and doesn't give change or issue a ticket and there's no revenue staff around?

Which is why bearing in mind the call for all stations to be manned while services are running should be adhered to and why I oppose the idea of closures.

 

[LondonLarry]

Be careful here, SWT might just decide to go with the FCC approach and close on Sundays regardless of how busy that booking office might be or not be, whatever the case might be.

As a comparsion and bear in mind I do not use SWT services regularly.

Hertford North in 2007 to 2008 served 1.202 million passengers with changes to ticket office opening hours being:

Monday-Friday 06:40-19:00
Saturday 07:45-14:10
Sunday Closed*

* Only open when Arsenal are at home.

Cuffley in the same period of 2007 to 2008 served 0.617 million passengers with changes to ticket office opening hours being:

Monday-Friday 06:40-18:30
Saturday 07:35-14:00
Sunday 09:00-14:45

There is justification for closing on ticket offices on Sundays if there's no-one using them. Of the 1.202million using Hertford North, how many actually travel on Sunday? I'm sure SWT can justify the closures based on low usage of the station.

My point being the booking office doesn't need to be busy to be shut on Sundays as proved above, if the booking office was only open in the mornings then yes I could see their point but don't think the extra money that SWT will save will go on investment but rather to their shareholders.

They're a private business expected to run at a profit, so unless it's mandated, SWT can request those changes to the DfT.

What can platform staff do when a TVM takes a passenger's money and doesn't give change or issue a ticket and there's no revenue staff around?

Which is why bearing in mind the call for all stations to be manned while services are running should be adhered to and why I oppose the idea of closures.

You ask the same question when the ticket office is closed. What happens to someone who travels at 1900 when the ticket office has closed at 1800? Pokesdown is one of the stations on SWT's list - are you suggesting it's staffed from first to last train? First train departs at 0519, last one at 0012

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit that when I lived in London, most of my journeys were done on a travel card which I bought from the newsagent. I think these reductions will happening more often now as smart card technology comes along. It would be interesting to know what the volume of sales has reduced on LU now the oyster card is here. I only visit now but I just top up on line and don't really have a reason to visit a ticket office.

My local station hasn't had an office for many years, the downside is there is no-one to monitor the vandlism. But most tickets I buy online now. The downside of Market Rasen is that no fast ticket machine exists to collect. Roll on mobile phone ticketing.

I am not saying that ticket offices are worthless and should all close - that would be wrong. Just saying that technology passes them by, my season ticket is now done on line as well so for many commuter there is no reason to ever visit the ticket office. But equally there are many people that don't trust the TVM and will alway queue at the window if it is open at many stations I have used.

 

[Mojo]

Why are there such regional disparities in booking office opening hours? Is it right that PTEs can subsidise station opening hours from first train 'til last train for stations with less than 100,000 passengers per year whereas stations in some areas with many millions of passengers per year have their office opening hours down to just a few hours per day.

 

[Aictos]

Talking of ticketing, even though you can use Oyster from Moorgate or Kings Cross to Hadley Wood or Crews Hill - you cannot top up at any of the FCC ticket offices, all they can do is 1. Tell you how much you have on your Oyster and 2. Point you in the nearest outlet which can top you up namely a newsagent or other.

Why introduce Oyster to national rail stations and not have the facility to allow passengers to top up?

As to Sundays at Hertford, they used to be quite busy as it allowed passengers to get their tickets for the week without having to wait on Monday.

Of course, Mondays are even more worse then they were - In the mornings, it's not unusual to see both ticket windows open and a queue to the doors.

As to PTEs subsidising station opening hours even though the stations might serve less then 100,000 passengers a year compared to the millions of passengers served by stations where reduction in hours is the norm, I don't think that's right at all.

 

[Failed Unit]

Why are there such regional disparities in booking office opening hours? Is it right that PTEs can subsidise station opening hours from first train 'til last train for stations with less than 100,000 passengers per year whereas stations in some areas with many millions of passengers per year have their office opening hours down to just a few hours per day.

Going back to LU, are they going to remove staff from some of thier stations altogether now oyster is in place?

But you are right, franchises are so tightly controlled that staffing should really be foot-fall based.

 

[radamfi]

Why are there such regional disparities in booking office opening hours? Is it right that PTEs can subsidise station opening hours from first train 'til last train for stations with less than 100,000 passengers per year whereas stations in some areas with many millions of passengers per year have their office opening hours down to just a few hours per day.

Which PTEs do that? I can only think of Merseyside. But I don't believe they have many ticket machines there. The vast majority of stations in other PTE areas are unstaffed.

 

[OwlMan]

Network West Midlands (Centro) have long ticket office opening hours for stations like Adderley Park, Bescot, Canley etc none of these are particularly busy late in the evening, in fact Adderley Park is rarely busy at all.



Peter

 

[Mojo]

Network West Midlands (Centro) have long ticket office opening hours for stations like Adderley Park, Bescot, Canley etc none of these are particularly busy late in the evening, in fact Adderley Park is rarely busy at all.

That was what I was thinking of; as well as Merseyside. IMO we really should have less regional disparities like this.

Adderley Park (in the latest stats) had 20,395 journeys, yet it's open from early morning until late night 7 days per week. In comparison Filton Abbey Wood, with 457,661 journeys per year is totally unstaffed (don't read NRES website, it's junk). I wonder if that's the busiest unstaffed station in the country.

 

[LondonLarry]

In comparison Filton Abbey Wood, with 457,661 journeys per year is totally unstaffed (don't read NRES website, it's junk).

That's not NRES's fault - blame FGW as they are responsible for updating that information on the National Rail website.

 

[Mojo]

That's not NRES's fault - blame FGW as they are responsible for updating that information on the National Rail website.

Never said it was. FGW are little better; the poster on the station (which was printed quite recently with the change of manager) also has the opening hours listed when infact it has been unstaffed for a few years now (except for a brief period in Summer, and even that was outside the advertised hours).

 

[radamfi]

Fares are usually lower in PTE areas as well. Is that acceptable?

 

[First class]

Fares are usually lower in PTE areas as well. Is that acceptable?

Yes, because in reality, they are not "lower". The price on the ticket may be lower than what has actually been paid.

The PTE funds this from council tax and the like/ profit from PTE products (created by council tax funds). So effectively everyone is paying to subsidise the rail fares.

 

[radamfi]

Why introduce Oyster to national rail stations and not have the facility to allow passengers to top up?

Many (most?) TOCs in the London area offer Oyster topups at TVMs at stations if they don't allow topups at the ticket office. I've topped up at Southern, London Overground, London Midland and Southeastern ticket machines. SWT is a notable exception.

I suppose Auto Top Up is one way around it, meaning you never have to top up manually ever again, although it does mean you may have up to £25 on your card at once.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, because in reality, they are not "lower". The price on the ticket may be lower than what has actually been paid.

The PTE funds this from council tax and the like/ profit from PTE products (created by council tax funds). So effectively everyone is paying to subsidise the rail fares.

Is that any different to subsidising longer ticket office opening hours?

 

[Mojo]

The PTE funds this from council tax and the like/ profit from PTE products (created by council tax funds). So effectively everyone is paying to subsidise the rail fares.

Not this old gem again...

I've just looked at Merseyside ITA's accounts and you'll find that service income, grants and levies on council taxes from the councils are all forecast to be roughly equal, meaning that people outside the PTEs are subsidising the expenditure in PTE areas.

Whilst we're at it, why don't we compare the average band D council tax rates for a few PTE and non-PTE areas:
Sefton £1,448.00
Bristol £1,533.00
Birmingham £1,238.00
Salford £1,512.00
Harrogate £1,516.00
Leeds £1,280.00
Aylesbury Vale £1,463.00
Sheffield £1,455.00
Carlisle £1,530.00

All roughly the same, so you can't even really say that people in PTE areas are paying more for the better services.

 

[Deerfold]

Not this old gem again...

I've just looked at Merseyside ITA's accounts and you'll find that service income, grants and levies on council taxes from the councils are all forecast to be roughly equal, meaning that people outside the PTEs are subsidising the expenditure in PTE areas.

Whilst we're at it, why don't we compare the average band D council tax rates for a few PTE and non-PTE areas:
Sefton £1,448.00
Bristol £1,533.00
Birmingham £1,238.00
Salford £1,512.00
Harrogate £1,516.00
Leeds £1,280.00
Aylesbury Vale £1,463.00
Sheffield £1,455.00
Carlisle £1,530.00

All roughly the same, so you can't even really say that people in PTE areas are paying more for the better services.

I'd suspect there's enough differences in spending in various areas, population density and so on that you can't tell much about transport spending from these figures.

 

[Mojo]

I'd suspect there's enough differences in spending in various areas, population density and so on that you can't tell much about transport spending from these figures.

Exactly my point, so you can't exactly say that the facilties enjoyed by PTE areas are only funded by the people that live in these areas, when around 40% of their funding comes from external sources!