SWT Reading - Basingstoke and Reading - Brighton (North Downs) services

[RailWonderer]

Does anybody have archival timetables from the era (1996-2011?) that SWT operated 170s, 158s and 159s on these routes? I am also looking for pictures of these trains on those routes, particularly the North Downs. I'm curious to know the service frequency and stopping pattern and how long both services ran for. Thanks.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

SWT ran to Brighton, but never over the North Downs. Those that ran to Brighton were, from memory, perhaps two or three return trips per day, and limited stop pattern.

Edited: as said, above was from memory! With some digging there were in the earlier days of SWT more than I suggested above to Brighton, some being EMU, portions detached from Waterloo to Basingstoke services etc. But as said, nothing was ever diagrammed over the North downs, that was the domain of the WR DMMU's, and more recently 165's etc.

 

[RailWonderer]

SWT ran to Brighton, but never over the North Downs. Those that ran to Brighton were, from memory, perhaps two or three return trips per day, and limited stop pattern.

What was the route from Reading to Brighton then, was it Reading - Basingstoke - Southampton (reversing to go via Netley) - Brighton? That's the only other route I can think of.

 

[JonathanH]

What was the route from Reading to Brighton then, was it Reading - Basingstoke - Southampton (reversing to go via Netley) - Brighton? That's the only other route I can think of.

It took the line from Eastleigh to Fareham. No need to go via Southampton.

 

[swt_passenger]

What was the route from Reading to Brighton then, was it Reading - Basingstoke - Southampton (reversing to go via Netley) - Brighton? That's the only other route I can think of.

Reading, Basingstoke, Eastleigh, Fareham, Havant, Brighton. It was basically an hourly offpeak service between Brighton and Basingstoke, but with every 3rd hour an extension to Reading. However a number of peak services were diverted to run from or to Portsmouth, and there were a couple of gaps in the Fareham to Brighton leg, because there was space left for the GWR Brightons that ran in the same path.

So in summary, there were 5 services from Reading to Brighton on weekdays, but only 4 in the opposite direction. The first arrival at Reading from Brighton was not until 1223. The last departure from Reading ran to Salisbury, which I expect few people remember.

In one timetable period a while before it was ended, I think only the Reading trains were 158, and the rest of the services were 450 operated. There were only a relatively small number of DMU services reached Brighton.

I posted the departure times in a thread a few years ago, the post included a short MS word doc. In case anyone cannot read the file I’ve attached a screenshot in post #8 below.

SWT's defunct Reading-Basingstoke service: where did it go?

I remember SWT turbostars going from the basingstoke bound Reading Train Station platforms. Does anyone know what route this was and why it no longer exists?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Big Jumby 74]

That's the only other route I can think of.

The 'North Downs', in general railway terms, has only ever meant Reading-Guildford-Gomshall-Redhill. Hope you don't mind me clarifying that?

 

[DidcotDickie]

Reading, Basingstoke, Eastleigh, Fareham, Havant, Brighton. It was basically an hourly offpeak service between Brighton and Basingstoke, but with every 3rd hour an extension to Reading. However a number of peak services were diverted to run from or to Portsmouth, and there were a couple of gaps in the Fareham to Brighton leg, because there was space left for the GWR Brightons that ran in the same path.

So in summary, there were 5 services from Reading to Brighton on weekdays, but only 4 in the opposite direction. The first arrival at Reading from Brighton was not until 1223. The last departure from Reading ran to Salisbury, which I expect few people remember.

In one timetable period a while before it was ended, I think only the Reading trains were 158, and the rest of the services were 450 operated. There were only a relatively small number of DMU services reached Brighton.

I posted the departure times in a thread a few years ago, the post includes a short MS word doc. If anyone can’t read it I’ll try and convert it into something newer:

SWT's defunct Reading-Basingstoke service: where did it go?

I remember SWT turbostars going from the basingstoke bound Reading Train Station platforms. Does anyone know what route this was and why it no longer exists?

www.railforums.co.uk

Did a Reading to Brighton return in the late 90s and that was the route we took. Train was a class 158 and very comfortable it was too.

 

[swt_passenger]

Here’s a screenshot of the CWN extracts from the spring 2007 timetable period. 11 movements at Brighton per day, 6 at Reading:

 

[nw1]

The above pattern, with the Reading trains from Brighton at around 1000, 1300 and 1600 (every 3 hours) was a long-standing one which existed as far back as 1997.

In 1997, the services generally left Brighton on the hour: the Readings were operated by 159s, while the Basingstoke terminators were operated primarily by VEPs (Class 423) with the occasional CIG (Class 421). Many of them interworked with Basingstoke-London stopping services, though not in a consistent pattern. Looking at the 1997 WTT, there was one down service actually advertised as Waterloo-Brighton via Basingstoke: the 0812 (in the path of a normal Waterloo-Basingstoke stopper), which went, interestingly, to Littlehampton rather than Brighton from 14 July to 5 September. I presume that was because a W&W 158 took its path into Brighton high summer (the inward journey of the 1200, see below).

An extra complication, as mentioned by @swt_passenger, was that some paths out of Brighton were used by Wales and West 158s to and from Bristol or beyond (the 0900, 1200 and 1700; the 1200 was high summer only, with a VEP operating it at other times, to Basingstoke).

 

[southern442]

For how long did SWT run services to the West of England line/area from Brighton, and how did these fit in to that timetable?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

1Y13 0712 Waterloo-Brighton is interesting. I never knew 450s worked direct services all the way from Waterloo down to Brighton, certainly not as late as 2007. I thought it was all services from Eastleigh/Basingstoke/Reading.

 

[30907]

For how long did SWT run services to the West of England line/area from Brighton, and how did these fit in to that timetable?

I don't think they did, the services ending by the beginning of the 159 era.

OT: the pattern varied considerably over the years, with services starting at Portsmouth, or running via Portsmouth, and even incorporating a Portsmouth Direct train to position the stock; earlier the service was operated with Central Division resources or - most famously - with a pair of Hastings diesel units.

Interesting article here: http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/watexdieselops.html

 

[swt_passenger]

For how long did SWT run services to the West of England line/area from Brighton, and how did these fit in to that timetable?

There were only one or two on Sat and Sundays, I think. Unfortunately I haven’t got the equivalent working notices handy for the weekends in 2007. From memory I think the Saturday early morning service had a Brighton to Paignton that reversed at Portsmouth and Southsea. The up equivalent from Paignton in the afternoon split at Fareham into Portsmouth and Brighton portions. I haven’t a timetable, but I’d assume the paths in and out of Brighton were at the normal times along the west coastway, they must have run as alternatives to the normal Basingstoke or Reading trains, rather than being extras.

1Y13 0712 Waterloo-Brighton is interesting. I never knew 450s worked direct services all the way from Waterloo down to Brighton, certainly not as late as 2007. I thought it was all services from Eastleigh/Basingstoke/Reading.

That was only once a day though, basically joining two services either side of Basingstoke for operating convenience. I doubt anyone would have intentionally done Waterloo to Brighton given the 3 hour journey time?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There were only one or two on Sat and Sundays, I think. Unfortunately I haven’t got the equivalent working notices handy for the weekends in 2007

That was only once a day though, basically joining two services either side of Basingstoke for operating convenience. I doubt anyone would have intentionally done Waterloo to Brighton given the 3 hour journey time?

Yes, I’m sure it wasn’t well populated for the full journey, but it’s an interesting little quirk to know it was there! Did it have the same calling pattern as the BSK Semi?

 

[nw1]

There were only one or two on Sat and Sundays, I think. Unfortunately I haven’t got the equivalent working notices handy for the weekends in 2007

That was only once a day though, basically joining two services either side of Basingstoke for operating convenience. I doubt anyone would have intentionally done Waterloo to Brighton given the 3 hour journey time?

Some might do it for the track, I guess.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2023 ==

Yes, I’m sure it wasn’t well populated for the full journey, but it’s an interesting little quirk to know it was there! Did it have the same calling pattern as the BSK Semi?

Not sure about the 2007 version, but the 1997 version (0812, operated by VEPs) did.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, I’m sure it wasn’t well populated for the full journey, but it’s an interesting little quirk to know it was there! Did it have the same calling pattern as the BSK Semi?

Yes I think it did, the nearest equivalent today is probably 2L97, a normal Basingstoke semifast. Gets to Basingstoke at 0824, which is about the right time to have continued in the normal path used to Brighton. Whether coming from Reading or starting at Basingstoke most down trains were at about xx24.

 

[southern442]

Yes, I’m sure it wasn’t well populated for the full journey, but it’s an interesting little quirk to know it was there!

If it had still run these days I wonder if they'd end up selling some dirt cheap advance tickets for it

 

[Big Jumby 74]

From memory I think the Saturday early morning service had a Brighton to Paignton that reversed at Portsmouth and Southsea. The up equivalent from Paignton in the afternoon split at Fareham into Portsmouth and Brighton portions.

You are spot on the money my friend. Of note (perhaps?) is that the SO, 0957 Brighton to Paignton (1L87) reversed in p1 (the High level) at Portsmouth & Southsea. Times at Brighton (SO) were standard (ish), xx12 arrival (mostly) for xx57 back out.
On Sundays there was 1Y45, 1410 Brighton to Exeter, via P&S (reversing in p4 in this instant).
All above formed of 3 car 159, which with the reversals at P&S, needed to be carefully diagrammed, as the 159 fleet was common user to all 159 diagrams, and there was a rigid internal rule back then, that when on diagrams that went to Waterloo, the first class was to be at the London end.