SWT Possible Prosecution

[PaulSmith22]

Help please!!!

I have made a really bad error of judgement, which could have serious consequences.

Travelling from a station with no barrier into London Waterloo

Tried to buy ticket from machine, but machine rejected the note, then train came. Was worried about missing a meeting so I boarded the train.

I then tried to buy a ticket from the internet whilst on the train but had problems with the registration page of the website, so the process failed.

Having arrived at the station, I could see no ticket sellers/machines, so I made a really bad judgement of following someone through the barrier, to head to the ticket office.

I can demonstrate that I attempted unsuccessfully to buy a ticket from the machine. I can demonstrate that I tried unsuccessfully to buy a ticket from the internet. I can demonstrate that I have always previously bought tickets.

This matter is completely my fault. No excuses. But I was not fare dodging. I just made a really bad error of judgement to try and resolve a difficult no-ticket situation.

Letter now received from SWT, saying that they are considering legal action

I called them today and they said that the matter has been referred to the prosecutors office, and I can send a letter offering 'mitigation'

Any thoughts?

All my fault. In a really bad place with this.

I really need to avoid prosecution as will have serious consequences.

Paul

 

[bb21]

I can demonstrate that I attempted unsuccessfully to buy a ticket from the machine. I can demonstrate that I tried unsuccessfully to buy a ticket from the internet. I can demonstrate that I have always previously bought tickets.

I am intrigued to know how you would go about demonstrating these things you mentioned, as I cannot think of any myself.

Following someone else out of the gates is about as silly a thing as you can do assuming that what you have described is all true. Even if you were innocent, this type of behaviour screams "fare evader", and can very easily be interpreted by the court (should the matter proceed that far) as an attempt to avoid paying the correct fare.

 

[yorkie]

I can demonstrate that I attempted unsuccessfully to buy a ticket from the machine. I can demonstrate that I tried unsuccessfully to buy a ticket from the internet. I can demonstrate that I have always previously bought tickets.

You don't need to demonstrate any of that as it's not really relevant to the fact you appear to have attempted to avoid payment by following someone out of the barrier.

If the barriers are in operation, staff must be in attendance. At Waterloo, I find it hard to believe there were no staff at the gateline. If you can PM me the date and time I will ask someone I know who works at that gateline, to establish whether there could be any such possibility, but I find it very hard to believe.

I really need to avoid prosecution as will have serious consequences.

Then you need to hope that SWT will agree to an an out of court settlement.

 

[Pepperami]

The error was going through the gates, you should have stayed platform side, awaited a member of staff, then explained the situation, having not gone through the barrier, and awaiting help would have better demonstrated that you were not trying to avoid paying

Worried about missing a meeting will probably be met with could you not of phoned them to tell them you might be late

Also, on a weekday (although I suppose it depends on what station you used as for the frequency of trains) there would be any number of services you could have used, so if you could not get a ticket as the machine would not accept the note, you had several choices apart from boarding the service including using the internet, or if the station is equipped with one, a help and information point, or another passenger able to exchange the note that would not go into the machine as you stated the note is the reason you couldn't buy a ticket?

Bottom line is, as a person who has travelled before and always had a ticket, you know that to board a train without one is an offence, as Yorkie has pointed out, lets hope SWT will agree a way to resolve it

 

[TEW]

There probably weren't any people with ticket machines visible on the barriers at Waterloo, but there would have been plenty of staff on the barriers. If you approached one of them they would have advised you what to do. I imagine the worst possible outcome would have been a Penalty Fare. You could have attempted to find the guard on board the train too. They may not always be able to sell you a ticket but if you have boarded a train without a ticket, where facilities existed at the origin station, it is advisable to try and find the guard.

 

[PaulSmith22]

Yes, it was daft going through the gate without a ticket. Completely my fault.

I appreciate that it may/may not be relevant, but I can demonstrate that I unsuccessfully (twice) tried to buy a ticket. However, to be clear, I accept that it was my fault for boarding a train with no ticket.

Questions are:

- Is it likely that SWT will accept an out of court settlement offer?

- I have received a PRSSW-001 letter. They are asking for my comments 'in mitigation'. This sounds like they have already found me guilty in advance of any hearing?

- When I called them yesterday to discuss, the chap seemed to suggest that they had already referred this for prosecution, even although the letter states that they are considering the evidence, and that they want my comments.


Any help would be gratefully appreciated. I know the circumstances may scream fare dodger, but this was definitely not my intention.

Paul

 

[SWTCommuter]

Help please!!!
Tried to buy ticket from machine, but machine rejected the note

I then tried to buy a ticket from the internet whilst on the train but had problems with the registration page of the website, so the process failed.

To buy a ticket online you would have needed a credit or debit card. If you had a card with you, why didn't you use it in the ticket machine at the station?

 

[Pepperami]

They have already found you guilty mate because you are

I mean that in the nicest possible way you have broken the terms and conditions for travel so you are guilty but the fact that they want to hear your side of it I would take as a positive

I would suggest in your mitigation response that you ask them to study the CCTV footage for the exact time you were there and ask them for a copy of it in case you need to seek advice (don't put legal advice it's all about taking the submissive position) and if I were the one who was reading your letter I would think ok so he wants us to review cctv so he obviously attempted to obtain a ticket

Be polite, be exact and to the point do not ramble on, and tell them you are happy to pay the fixed penalty as you accept that you travelled without a ticket but as they can see by your letter you did try to obtain one without success and as no one was at the exit barriers at your destination you thought it best to go to the ticket office as you needed a return ticket anyway

Hopefully they will accept your version of events

Good luck with it let us know how you get on

 

[Haywain]

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. I know the circumstances may scream fare dodger, but this was definitely not my intention.

Paul

Your intentions will be judged on your actions, not your thoughts, and your actions will have clearly said "trying to avoid paying a fare".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would suggest in your mitigation response that you ask them to study the CCTV footage for the exact time you were there and ask them for a copy of it in case you need to seek advice (don't put legal advice it's all about taking the submissive position) and if I were the one who was reading your letter I would think ok so he wants us to review cctv so he obviously attempted to obtain a ticket

It's worth bearing in mind that this has no impact on the actions at Waterloo, and will only increase the costs of investigating the matter which would be taken into account in either an out of court settlement or in a court case.

 

[swt_passenger]

To buy a ticket online you would have needed a credit or debit card. If you had a card with you, why didn't you use it in the ticket machine at the station?

That potential online purchase avenue wouldn't have helped at all though? It wouldn't produce a back dated e-ticket or whatever, and at best would enable the OP to produce a ticket from a machine on the concourse that would be printed after he had already travelled. Wouldn't cancel out double gating..

It would provide a useful return portion for use later on though, possibly some mitigation...

 

[Pepperami]

Yeah that is true hadn't thought about it like that

 

[SWTCommuter]

That potential online purchase avenue wouldn't have helped at all though? It wouldn't produce a back dated e-ticket or whatever, and at best would enable the OP to produce a ticket from a machine on the concourse that would be printed after he had already travelled. Wouldn't cancel out double gating..

It would provide a useful return portion for use later on though, possibly some mitigation...

I think we may be at cross-purposes.

The OP's attempt to buy a ticket online suggested that he was carrying a credit card. I was querying why, if he was carrying a card, he didn't use it in the ticket machine at the origin station after it rejected his attempt at a cash payment.

 

[Clip]

I appreciate that it may/may not be relevant, but I can demonstrate that I unsuccessfully (twice) tried to buy a ticket.

You still need to answer bb21 with how you can prove this because I am intrigued.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think we may be at cross-purposes.

The OP's attempt to buy a ticket online suggested that he was carrying a credit card. I was querying why, if he was carrying a card, he didn't use it in the ticket machine at the origin station after it rejected his attempt at a cash payment.

Yes, but I was just adding to your point in suggesting that the OP's mentioning an attempt to purchase online was flawed anyway. I suppose I could have equally well replied in that way to his original comment...

 

[cjmillsnun]

I think your comments in mitigation are

I twice attempted to purchase a ticket useing a ticket vending machine at (origin station name), trying to pay with cash. Although I had sufficient cash to pay for the ticket, the machine for some reason would not accept the bank note I had.

I apologize most profusely for my actions at Waterloo, and would like to settle the matter amicably. I am willing to pay the anytime single cost for my journey plus any reasonable administration cost in persuing your claim against me.

 

[Geronimo]

I think we may be at cross-purposes.

The OP's attempt to buy a ticket online suggested that he was carrying a credit card. I was querying why, if he was carrying a card, he didn't use it in the ticket machine at the origin station after it rejected his attempt at a cash payment.

A bit of a tangent, but you don't need to _carry_ a CC to buy online. It's enough to have the relevant information memorised (in your head or the device you are using).

 

[SWTCommuter]

A bit of a tangent, but you don't need to _carry_ a CC to buy online. It's enough to have the relevant information memorised (in your head or the device you are using).

Very true, but it is usually necessary to present the credit or debit card that was used when collecting rail tickets purchased online.

You can collect your ticket from any station that has a Self Service Ticket Machine that is listed on our website. Please carry the debit/credit card that was used to purchase the ticket along with the Ticket Collection Reference.