SWT Penalty Fare advice

[radamfi]

I now realise I've wasted money as I've done a lot of return journeys coming back straight away just to do the line, mostly extensions to the Overground network as they opened. I made sure I touched out then touched back in straight away. Presumably there's nothing stopping someone going touching in at Waterloo, go from Waterloo to Surbiton then back to Waterloo then to Vauxhall then touch out as long as it is within the maximum journey time for Zones 1 to 6. You would have to take care that you touched out at a different station than you touched in though, so going from Waterloo to Surbiton and back would be a no-no.

 

[soil]

I'm not sure that there is any rule against doing that.

 

[MikeWh]

Presumably there's nothing stopping someone going touching in at Waterloo, go from Waterloo to Surbiton then back to Waterloo then to Vauxhall then touch out as long as it is within the maximum journey time for Zones 1 to 6.

Well the recorded journey is zone 1 only so the maximum journey time would be between 90 and 110 minutes depending on the time/day of the week. On the return to Waterloo you would need to ensure that you could get between the platforms without passing through a gateline, unless you took the same train back, but that might put the journey time at risk.

 

[yorkie]

Taking a long route risks 2 x maximum charges (due to exceeding the maximum journey time for the zones it assumes you have travelled through), and while the Oyster helpline people are helpful, I can't see them resolving journeys on the basis of "I wanted to do some line coverage"

A passenger travelling from Wimbledon to Whitechapel via Clapham Jn and Surrey Quays is assumed to have gone via Zone 1, while a passenger travelling from Raynes Park via Wimbledon and Victoria is assumed to have avoided Zone 1. The customer who is undercharged has done nothing wrong, and the customer who is overcharged could apply for the difference to be refunded by the Oyster helpdesk.

Assumptions made by the system may result in a different fare being charged to what you expected and may also affect the maximum journey time in an unexpected way.

 

[embers25]

I now realise I've wasted money as I've done a lot of return journeys coming back straight away just to do the line, mostly extensions to the Overground network as they opened. I made sure I touched out then touched back in straight away. Presumably there's nothing stopping someone going touching in at Waterloo, go from Waterloo to Surbiton then back to Waterloo then to Vauxhall then touch out as long as it is within the maximum journey time for Zones 1 to 6. You would have to take care that you touched out at a different station than you touched in though, so going from Waterloo to Surbiton and back would be a no-no.

Never knew this either and I too have wasted lots. However If I swiped in at Waterloo and then got checked on a train back from Surbiton to Clapham whilst my Oyster is completely valid apparently I doubt a guard would see it that way! I want to try this now! Can anyone point me in the direction of the max permitted journey times for Oyster?

 

[swt_passenger]

Never knew this either and I too have wasted lots. However If I swiped in at Waterloo and then got checked on a train back from Surbiton to Clapham whilst my Oyster is completely valid apparently I doubt a guard would see it that way! I want to try this now! Can anyone point me in the direction of the max permitted journey times for Oyster?

Try the link in MikeWh's signature, three posts above ^^

 

[MikeWh]

A passenger travelling from Wimbledon to Whitechapel via Clapham Jn and Surrey Quays is assumed to have gone via Zone 1, while a passenger travelling from Raynes Park via Wimbledon and Victoria is assumed to have avoided Zone 1 (and therefore gets longer to complete the journey, but accordingly is charged more)

The journey charged via zone 1 will be allowed more time as well as costing more.

 

[Airlink]

No misunderstanding on my part, the following taken from TFL site:

3.16 Oyster route validators for use when travelling using pay as you go on your Oyster card - these can be identified by a pink card reader:
They are located at a number of interchange stations. If you pass an Oyster route validator when changing from one train to another, and you are using your Oyster card to pay as you go for any part of your journey, you should touch your card on the pink card reader to ensure you pay the appropriate Oyster single fare for the route you are taking.

3.19 If you are using an Oyster card with a Travelcard season ticket on it and you are travelling on a Train Company service to a station beyond the availability of your Travelcard season ticket, but within the London National Rail Pay As You Go area, you must touch in before you start your journey and have a sufficient pay as you go balance on your card to cover the cost of the additional travel. If you fail to touch in at the start of your journey, or have insufficient pay as you go credit, you may be issued with a Penalty Fare and/or be prosecuted.

 

[yorkie]

Airlink - you are suggesting a pink reader can increase the fare? I am very surprised at this. I've never heard of it and it goes against what TfL says. Do you have any evidence of this? I've asked some people to investigate.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14839.aspx

Pink card readers
If you see a pink card reader (route validator) it's worth touching your card on it - you might get a cheaper fare.

 

[jon0844]

Surely these validators are only in places where it is necessary to prove that you didn't travel via zone 1 - and as such they will only ever result in a LOWER fare, not a higher one.

Otherwise nobody would touch them, and it wouldn't be possible to issue a penalty as I am not aware of there being any requirement to touch them (especially if someone might have to alight a train and reboard to touch one).

 

[wimbledonpete]

Could I chuck another scenario in please? I have a 2-4 annual on my Oyster plus some credit for out of zone trips, using auto top-up. If I want to go Raynes Park to Richmond I'd go via Clapham Junction as I know I don't have zones 5 & 6. But if I tap in at Raynes Park, travel via Kingston and tap out at Richmond, my PAYG balance won't get debited as I started and finished within my Travelcard zones.

Is this a permitted manoeuvre despite this?

Thanks!

 

[bb21]

Could I chuck another scenario in please? I have a 2-4 annual on my Oyster plus some credit for out of zone trips, using auto top-up. If I want to go Raynes Park to Richmond I'd go via Clapham Junction as I know I don't have zones 5 & 6. But if I tap in at Raynes Park, travel via Kingston and tap out at Richmond, my PAYG balance won't get debited as I started and finished within my Travelcard zones.

Is this a permitted manoeuvre despite this?

Thanks!

I don't think there is anything to suggest that it is not permitted.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I don't think there is anything to suggest that it is not permitted.

In addition, that journey is direct on the aforementioned train so it would definitely be valid.

 

[yorkie]

Could I chuck another scenario in please? I have a 2-4 annual on my Oyster plus some credit for out of zone trips, using auto top-up. If I want to go Raynes Park to Richmond I'd go via Clapham Junction as I know I don't have zones 5 & 6. But if I tap in at Raynes Park, travel via Kingston and tap out at Richmond, my PAYG balance won't get debited as I started and finished within my Travelcard zones.

Is this a permitted manoeuvre despite this?

The Oyster Conditions of Use make it very clear that it is permitted to tap in at your origin, make your journey, tap out and that's all you need to do.

If the system doesn't charge you any extra, that's up to the system, it's not something you are in control of.

What matters is that you must be touched in, as otherwise if you are caught outsize your Travelcard Zones while NOT touched in, you will be treated as having travelled 'over-distance' and liable to a penalty fare (or worse).

So, be sure to tap in & out, to ensure you are adhering to the Conditions. Oh and, ensure you have sufficient PAYG balance to cover any charges, as you have auto top-up enabled you have no issues there (and I too would highly recommend auto top-up)

 

[londonboi]

at least he got it sorted which is a good thing

however i still fail to see why he went wat - surb surb-wimb that does not make sence for a 16min direct route on the surburban line

 

[wimbledonpete]

The Oyster Conditions of Use make it very clear that it is permitted to tap in at your origin, make your journey, tap out and that's all you need to do.

If the system doesn't charge you any extra, that's up to the system, it's not something you are in control of.

What matters is that you must be touched in, as otherwise if you are caught outsize your Travelcard Zones while NOT touched in, you will be treated as having travelled 'over-distance' and liable to a penalty fare (or worse).

So, be sure to tap in & out, to ensure you are adhering to the Conditions. Oh and, ensure you have sufficient PAYG balance to cover any charges, as you have auto top-up enabled you have no issues there (and I too would highly recommend auto top-up)

Thanks all, very interesting. Seems counter-intuitive that the system allows you to do something that doesn't charge you but then I guess the geography of the railway with loops etc leads to these anomalies.

 

[bb21]

Thanks all, very interesting. Seems counter-intuitive that the system allows you to do something that doesn't charge you but then I guess the geography of the railway with loops etc leads to these anomalies.

Inevitable for the reason you described in a system that only requires a touch at the beginning and the end of the journey only.