Swt/nr 'alliance' - joined up thinking

[nomis1066]

Surprise, surprise - joined up thinking works, and more surprises at the National Rail Awards as the bowtie brigade congratulate each other once again with the "Alliance" getting really high marks for, in effect, managing to do what BR was doing 20 years ago and managing railway operations from under one roof. I suspect, though, that BR would've got it done with less people.

Today's "Alliance" is just that - two separate organisations with old BR roles diluted and duplicated. Maybe it is a small step in the right direction as the glaringly obvious has become apparent even if the current management says this isn't going back to the BR way of doing things. There does seem to be that underlying reluctance to accept that just maybe, BR did a lot of things pretty efficiently.

 

[Deerfold]

What is this about? Has someone won an award for something? What was it? Do you have a link?

 

[nomis1066]

Latest Rail Magazine has all the twaddle.

http://awards.railbusinessevents.co.uk/winners

You have to go down and down till you find the Teamwork nomination for the South Western Railway.

 

[Deerfold]

I still don't understand what you're trying to say.

I'm guessing it's obvious if you know some background. Less so otherwise.

 

[The Planner]

I think it is a "BR was better" type thing...

 

[LBSCR Times]

It might be joined up if you're SWT but certainly not the freight companies, who regularly suffer whilst preference is given to SWT....

 

[Monty]

With what SWT pay NR in track access charges and the fact their traffic patterns are far less likely to change at short notice like most FOCs you would expect they did get some form of preferential treatment.

 

[Pumbaa]

That has nothing to with it - the TOCs and FOCs are all customers (equal). Over the past year there has been a significant relaxation in 'regional' rules, and there is currently a focus on crunching data to fully understand the consequences of allowing signallers and route controllers being given greater flexibility to attempt to run the route properly under the new regime, which is great for SWT but not so great for the others. On a typical week, delay SWT > others can be double digit pc higher than is targeted, which is not ideal for either party. If it continues to escalate, we could see a return to absolute 'booked order' operation. It can only work so well in isolation, me thinks, and the nature of the beast means that isolation ain't possible.

 

[Helvellyn]

That has nothing to with it - the TOCs and FOCs are all customers (equal). Over the past year there has been a significant relaxation in 'regional' rules, and there is currently a focus on crunching data to fully understand the consequences of allowing signallers and route controllers being given greater flexibility to attempt to run the route properly under the new regime, which is great for SWT but not so great for the others. On a typical week, delay SWT > others can be double digit pc higher than is targeted, which is not ideal for either party. If it continues to escalate, we could see a return to absolute 'booked order' operation. It can only work so well in isolation, me thinks, and the nature of the beast means that isolation ain't possible.

Really? Odd how my trains still fairly routinely are held for freight to have preference because the freight is going off route and therefore the knock-on effects of delaying that are a lot worse. My Drivers certainly would agree that they get priority!

 

[Monty]

Really? Odd how my trains still fairly routinely are held for freight to have preference because the freight is going off route and therefore the knock-on effects of delaying that are a lot worse. My Drivers certainly would agree that they get priority!

I have to say this is the case also, I've lost count the times I've been held at Wandsworth Town to allow a freight to overtake my train and crossover on to the down slow.

 

[Pumbaa]

I can't really comment what happens up London way, I don't know what goes on up there. I think (in all honesty) all parties concerned are still trying to find the right balance. And what talks is the £££.

 

[nomis1066]

I still don't understand what you're trying to say.

I'm guessing it's obvious if you know some background. Less so otherwise.

You don't understand? Merely saying that what BR did as a matter of course in operating a railway from under the same roof with all the obvious benefits of joined up thinking is now considered something spectacularly successful.

 

[455driver]

I have to say this is the case also, I've lost count the times I've been held at Wandsworth Town to allow a freight to overtake my train and crossover on to the down slow.

As it should be, suburban peasant!

 

[Clip]

You don't understand? Merely saying that what BR did as a matter of course in operating a railway from under the same roof with all the obvious benefits of joined up thinking is now considered something spectacularly successful.

No, it is being considered successful now because of the fact that the railway was split up between those who run services to those who maintain the track. And when that happenned they ALL wanted to work seperatly.

No one is saying it is anything new, just that by co-operating they are getting the desired results.

 

[455driver]

No one is saying it is anything new, just that by co-operating they are getting the desired results.

Yeah things are sooooo much better under the Alliance than they were when ST and NR were seperate! :roll:

I havent really noticed any difference, when it goes base over apex us on the ground are still left in mushroom mode* just as we always were!

* kept in the dark and fed bullsh#t.

 

[Clip]

Yeah things are sooooo much better under the Alliance than they were when ST and NR were seperate! :roll:

I havent really noticed any difference, when it goes base over apex us on the ground are still left in mushroom mode* just as we always were!

* kept in the dark and fed bullsh#t.

I know you speak from personal experience but the way the OP was read is that they are being awarded for working together and working well. Actually its just a case of them being nominated from what Ive just read but either way it must be paying off for even that to happen - just because you dont see any difference does not mean there isnt. Unless you work over every route in SWT land?

And being kept in the dark when it goes tits up isnt just confined to your little part of the railway you know - its countrywide

 

[nomis1066]

No, it is being considered successful now because of the fact that the railway was split up between those who run services to those who maintain the track. And when that happenned they ALL wanted to work seperatly.

No one is saying it is anything new, just that by co-operating they are getting the desired results.

My point from the very start! But today's hot air producing and self congratulatory railway decides that taking nearly 20 years to see the glaringly obvious benefits of teamwork warrants yet more mutual back slapping. Warnings were aplenty from those who could see the pitfalls of the most shambolic privatisation of all but the government of the day went ahead with the big break up.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Warnings were aplenty from those who could see the pitfalls of the most shambolic privatisation of all but the government of the day went ahead with the big break up.

And the previous TWO Labour governments did nothing about bringing it all back together......

 

[nomis1066]

And the previous TWO Labour governments did nothing about bringing it all back together......

100% spot on observation - Labour have two huge railway black marks against them over a period of 50 years - opposing the Beeching proposals only to implement them when they took power and then reneging on Blair's 1996 pledge to take the railway back into public ownership. Three black marks actually - you can't forget the 13 wasted years to set up a truly integrated public transport network - that is the timescale you need. And they blew it totally.

Politicians........

 

[455driver]

I And being kept in the dark when it goes tits up isnt just confined to your little part of the railway you know - its countrywide

I know that! :roll:

The point I was making is that this Alliance had made no difference to us on the ground.

They can keep all their back slapping cowmanure to themselves thank you.

 

[Carlisle]

No, it is being considered successful now because of the fact that the railway was split up between those who run services to those who maintain the track. And when that happenned they ALL wanted to work seperatly.

No one is saying it is anything new, just that by co-operating they are getting the desired results.

Are you sure they wanted to work separately or was it just the government of the day creating the structure that the newly privatised industry had to work with ?