SWT not operating west of Exeter from 2010

[Fgw+xc+swtconn]

Southwest trains not going south of exeter. Surely Not. Now hardly no trains will stop at Ivybridge. Think of Ivybridge! And why not?? what did we do wrong??? and they shouldn't be called southwest trains then...

 

[royaloak]

Have a chat with the DaFT, its their idea!
This is old news now, been well known for at least 12 months.

 

[Fgw+xc+swtconn]

Have a chat with the DaFT, its their idea!
This is old news now, been well known for at least 12 months.

And I only found out through Wikipedia!!! Like all I see at plymouth station about swt is work matience work. *sigh*

 

[MCR247]

Why should they operate west of exeter? Its not in their franchise commitments and it'll give exeter an hourly service

 

[royaloak]

Exeter could still have its hourly service as well as some trains splitting or going forward to Plymouth/ Paignton, but SWT were told they were to stop running them.
The excuse being used is lack of stock but there are enough units available to send a 3 coach 159 through, it would only need 2.
But SWT do not have to run west of Exeter as stipulated in the franchise, this is also why the Reading/ Basingstoke to Brightons stopped a couple of years ago.

 

[thefab444]

Indeed, the SWT franchise has seen some big cuts in "extra" services, notably West Croydon - Guildford, Brighton - Basingstoke/Reading and now Exeter - Paignton/Plymouth.

I shouldn't think it'll be long before the Salisbury - Bristol services are canned by order of the DaFT.

 

[devon_metro]

Now hardly no trains will stop at Ivybridge.

I suggest you go away and do your research, then return and try and justify that comment.

 

[class377man]

. Now hardly no trains will stop at Ivybridge.

I'm sure I read more FGW trains will stop there to compensate.

 

[tbtc]

I shouldn't think it'll be long before the Salisbury - Bristol services are canned by order of the DaFT.

Agreed. TBH, it'd probably be better as a FGW service, linked to their existing ones on the line (as it's of minimal use as a Bristol - London service).

Whilst Cross Country get criticised for pulling out of the south coast; if SWT still ran Brighton - Basingstoke/Reading, that'd give a few decent connections. Wonder if it would have been pulled if the Baskingstoke - Reading stetch could be EMU run?

(going off topic, sorry)

 

[class377man]

Whilst Cross Country get criticised for pulling out of the south coast; if SWT still ran Brighton - Basingstoke/Reading, that'd give a few decent connections. Wonder if it would have been pulled if the Baskingstoke - Reading stetch could be EMU run?

I doubt it. Only one train every three hours (might have been every four, I can't remember for certain) went further than Basingstoke anyway, and the ones that didn't were usually 450s.

 

[royaloak]

Have a look at this-
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Documents/Custom/Dec 09 TT/GW09D_TT31_WEB.pdf
Took me all of 2 minutes!

 

[williamn]

The excuse being used is lack of stock

I think it's a reason rather than excuse. An hourly service London to Exeter will mean much more stock needed.

 

[royaloak]

SWT have more than enough stock to carry on with the paigntons/Plymouths,

 

[MCR247]

SWT have more than enough stock to carry on with the paigntons/Plymouths,

Do they really? Proof?

 

[Helvellyn]

To the thread starter, it isn't no SWT West of Exeter from 2010. It's no SWT West of Exter from two weeks today. The last SWT services West of Exeter will be Saturday 12 December. The Penzance train (that returned on a Sunday) is not running that day.

SWT have more than enough stock to carry on with the paigntons/Plymouths,

I haven't seen the Carriage Workings for the new Timetable, but one of the things that stops the strengthening of some of the evening peak trains out of Waterloo is stock working West of Exeter.

Also, some of that extra Diesel stock was brought in specifically to strengthen morning and evening peak services on the core Waterloo-Basingstoke-Salisbury corridor. Hourly to Exeter will help traffic between Salisbury and Exeter, but more 8/9/10 coach trains out of Waterloo in the evening peak will also be great. 6-car trains that are standing room only to/from Basingstoke are a joke.

One of theings that will have been looked at is the actual loadings West of Exeter, and how much of it is actually through traffic from East of Exeter. I believe this is one of the reasons SWT isn't required to keep the operation.

I think the Bristol services will survive, and they were actually increased to four per day on weekdays in this franchise. They are quite popular, especially to the likes of Warminster and Westbury for those wanting a cheaper (if longer) option to travel to South London as well as Waterloo.

 

[mrcheek]

SWT services west of Exeter are usually pretty empty when Ive been on them. FGW provides enough services to cover the area, and will be adding more (including another Loco-Hauled Set!!!!)

The advantages of SWT going hourly from Exeter to waterloo FAR outweigh the disadvantages caused by a couple of trains not having to go east of exeter virtually empty anymore....

 

[Drsatan]

I don't think the Salisbury-Bristol service was part of SWT's franchise commitment anyway. It's useful in that it provides an early morning Salisbury - Bristol service for commuters, a cheaper (if slower) through service to London and a late-night service from Bristol to Salisbury.

Besides, as this is a (theoretically) privatised railway, it's good to have competition (even if it's stifled in the case of WSMR).

 

[Helvellyn]

If I recall, another factor in not operating West of Exeter was to ensure the integrity of the hourly timetable. As the only additional infrastructure to allow this is the passing loop at Axminster, for the service to be robust requires good timekeeping. An Up service from Plymouth/Paignton that got delayed before Exeter could have a big impact on Down services to Exeter. Restricting it to Waterloo-Exeter is supposed to help this.

If SWT builds this service well, and I think with good marketing of both Advance purchase tickets and megatrain it will, then the next steps would be to look at how to strengthen services between Salisbury and Exeter. Longer term the route would surely benefit from being double tracked again, with linespeed improvements too. Future electrification to Exeter/Plymouth could also see a case built for electrification of Yeovil-Exeter as part of the diversionary route.

In ten years time we might be talking about a half-hourly Waterloo-Yeovil service, with hourly to Exeter (perhaps half-hourly in the peaks).

The next South Western franchise will have to replace the 158s/159s at some point in that (and by 2020 at the latest I think under DRA regulations), so the argument for electrification and route upgrades could kick in as part of that.

 

[royaloak]

Do they really? Proof?

The proof I have is some-one high up at Salisbury that knows about these things more than most that work there, and more than everyone that doesnt!
And no I can't tell you their name for obvious reasons!

 

[Chafford1]

If I recall, another factor in not operating West of Exeter was to ensure the integrity of the hourly timetable. As the only additional infrastructure to allow this is the passing loop at Axminster, for the service to be robust requires good timekeeping. An Up service from Plymouth/Paignton that got delayed before Exeter could have a big impact on Down services to Exeter. Restricting it to Waterloo-Exeter is supposed to help this.

If SWT builds this service well, and I think with good marketing of both Advance purchase tickets and megatrain it will, then the next steps would be to look at how to strengthen services between Salisbury and Exeter. Longer term the route would surely benefit from being double tracked again, with linespeed improvements too. Future electrification to Exeter/Plymouth could also see a case built for electrification of Yeovil-Exeter as part of the diversionary route.

In ten years time we might be talking about a half-hourly Waterloo-Yeovil service, with hourly to Exeter (perhaps half-hourly in the peaks).

The next South Western franchise will have to replace the 158s/159s at some point in that (and by 2020 at the latest I think under DRA regulations), so the argument for electrification and route upgrades could kick in as part of that.

Network Rail in the Electrification RUS has identified the Basingtoke - Exeter line as having potential for electrification but at 25kv AC rather than 750c DC third rail (Network Rail say AC is more cost effective) - thus requiring units with bi-voltage potential.

Double tracking thoughout and significant linespeed increases however are likely to be very expensive if the £20m cost of the 3 mile Axminster loop is anything to go on. Network Rail's Wessex Route Plan notes that 'there may be scope to increase to 90mph certain sections of the route to Exeter which are currently limited to 85 mph'.

 

[Helvellyn]

Network Rail in the Electrification RUS has identified the Basingtoke - Exeter line as having potential for electrification but at 25kv AC rather than 750c DC third rail (Network Rail say AC is more cost effective) - thus requiring units with bi-voltage potential.

Double tracking thoughout and significant linespeed increases however are likely to be very expensive if the £20m cost of the 3 mile Axminster loop is anything to go on. Network Rail's Wessex Route Plan notes that 'there may be scope to increase to 90mph certain sections of the route to Exeter which are currently limited to 85 mph'.

Very true, but if electrification were to take place then double-tracking as part of that would bring some benefits. Or if they electrified as it stands, then at the very least we'd have to hope it would be done in such a way as to allow the potential for double-tracking in future.

 

[devon_metro]

Do they really? Proof?

Planned use of 158 on Lymington Pier?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

SWT services west of Exeter are usually pretty empty when Ive been on them. FGW provides enough services to cover the area, and will be adding more (including another Loco-Hauled Set!!!!)

The advantages of SWT going hourly from Exeter to waterloo FAR outweigh the disadvantages caused by a couple of trains not having to go east of exeter virtually empty anymore....

Your experience is clearly very different to mine. The trains to Paignton are well used in Summer and the 1420 Waterloo - Paignton MF is a commuter train out of Exeter at present. God knows where FGW are mustering extra trains to cover this as there aren't enough units to cover "Devon Metro" services within Exeter and surrounding areas.

 

[tbtc]

God knows where FGW are mustering extra trains to cover this as there aren't enough units to cover "Devon Metro" services within Exeter and surrounding areas.

How did they cope in the past? Were local services withdrawn when SWT extended westwards?

 

[devon_metro]

How did they cope in the past? Were local services withdrawn when SWT extended westwards?

There have always been Network South East services west of Exeter, to places such as Plymouth and Paignton. The complimented the Intercity and fairly sparse Regional Rail services.

Devon never used to have such a decent level of service!

 

[tbtc]

There have always been Network South East services west of Exeter, to places such as Plymouth and Exeter. The complimented the Intercity and fairly sparse Regional Rail services.

Devon never used to have such a decent level of service!

Thanks.

Out of interest, was that the route the Network South East 50s ran on, or were they on the "Great Western" route?

 

[MCR247]

Thanks.

Out of interest, was that the route the Network South East 50s ran on,

Yeah IIRC

 

[starrymarkb]

Thanks.

Out of interest, was that the route the Network South East 50s ran on, or were they on the "Great Western" route?

There were a few on the GW route to Oxford and Banbury, but most NSE 50s were on the Waterloo to Exeter

 

[Chafford1]

There have always been Network South East services west of Exeter, to places such as Plymouth and Paignton. They complimented the Intercity and fairly sparse Regional Rail services.

I'm surprised to hear that! Did the Class 50s from Waterloo run down to Plymouth and Paignton?

 

[starrymarkb]

Yes they did, running round at EXD

 

[devon_metro]

There was also a number of Southampton - Plymouth workings