SWT ITSO + annual season ticket

[jon0844]

I finally decided to once again enjoy the benefits of a Gold Card instead of being forced to pay a £13 minimum, and get the cheapest one on offer - namely RYDE ST JOHNS RD to RYDE ESPLANADE.

Sadly, my late decision to do this meant that because of the way the SWT site works (it wasn't possible to go to a station because I was abroad) meant I had to pay the 2013 price (£164) instead of £156, but £8 isn't too much of a price hike.

Anyway, I opted to get the ticket on a smartcard and believed you also got a Gold Record Card.

Today the ticket arrived, and it appears you don't.

You get a plastic ticket holder, one smartcard with your name on it (and no photocard number, despite it being entered), and a letter to tell me I have just 7 days to go to a station and load the paid-for ticket on the card. I must do this from a gateline, not a TVM.

So, how do I get the Gold Record Card? Without that, I can see myself having a whole world of pain when trying to get a discount. Sure, I could use a TVM but RPIs not having the means to check my ticket? Yeah, that's going to be good fun using FCC!

Obviously someone is going to now suggest that I should have asked for a paper ticket, but surely SWT must offer the same benefits to holders of a smartcard as well as a paper ticket?

 

[Chrisgr31]

I finally decided to once again enjoy the benefits of a Gold Card instead of being forced to pay a £13 minimum, and get the cheapest one on offer - namely RYDE ST JOHNS RD to RYDE ESPLANADE.

Sadly, my late decision to do this meant that because of the way the SWT site works (it wasn't possible to go to a station because I was abroad) meant I had to pay the 2013 price (£164) instead of £156, but £8 isn't too much of a price hike.

Anyway, I opted to get the ticket on a smartcard and believed you also got a Gold Record Card.

Today the ticket arrived, and it appears you don't.

You get a plastic ticket holder, one smartcard with your name on it (and no photocard number, despite it being entered), and a letter to tell me I have just 7 days to go to a station and load the paid-for ticket on the card. I must do this from a gateline, not a TVM.

So, how do I get the Gold Record Card? Without that, I can see myself having a whole world of pain when trying to get a discount. Sure, I could use a TVM but RPIs not having the means to check my ticket? Yeah, that's going to be good fun using FCC!

Obviously someone is going to now suggest that I should have asked for a paper ticket, but surely SWT must offer the same benefits to holders of a smartcard as well as a paper ticket?

On Southerns website it says that if you get an annual season ticket on The Key your gold record card will be automatically posted to you. https://www.southernrailway.com/smart-card/faq/817#t_817

Can't tell you if this happens as whilst my local station has key readers etc is not on a route from London Bridge thats authorised for The Key so I still have a paper ticket.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps the record card comes separately then.. maybe 'triggered' to go out once I've successfully downloaded the ticket.

I shall ask tomorrow when I go to get the ticket loaded on, never to be used.

UPDATE: Right, today was fun.

Went in to St Pancras to get my ticket loaded. St Pancras was listed as a station that can go to download tickets to, and I assumed this is because East Midlands is a Stagecoach franchise.

Indeed, the gates had the SWT smartcard logo on them (as against Oyster) but when I tried to download, I just got an error (55 or 57?) and 'Seek Assistance'.

I asked at the counter by platforms 1-4 and they didn't have a clue, so told me to ask in the ticket office.

So down I went to discover they have no smartcard readers. Why? Because East Midlands isn't yet set up for the service. They said it was supposed to happen, but never did and they don't know when it will - beyond hearing some rumours of it being soon.

Therefore they suggested I needed to go to a SWT station to sort it out (which I clearly do). She even asked where my ticket was to/from and seemed a bit surprised when I said IOW (as in 'why the hell are you trying to get it from here?)!

I think she understood when I explained that it was to get a cheap Gold Card, but I'm sure she still thought I was mad.

Anyway, I have 7 days to get it loaded and now I'm down to 4 days and there's little chance I can get back into London next week because of work.. so it looks like I've got no way to load the ticket on!

I will have to phone on Monday and ask why their website lists EMT stations as suitable for a smartcard download when they clearly aren't, as I'd have then travelled earlier to have time to go to Waterloo.. and if I now have to travel in again to go to Waterloo or another SWT station, I am considering asking them to cover my travel costs for my wasted journey today.

Smartcards - they're the future!

 

[Tom]

You will not receive a Gold record card (unless this has changed in the last month or so). You will receive a Network Railcard (the Gold Service team may need to be reminded) and your six free weekend tickets.

You cannot collect SWT tickets from EMT gatelines (the gatelines at St Pancras are ITSO enabled on the high level, but only on the EMT estate) as they do not share the same 'estate', identified by the OID on your card (the 4 digits after 633597)

 

[bb21]

How is he going to be able to buy Gold Card-discounted tickets in that case?

 

[Tom]

I've had an annual season on smartcard for about 4 years now, and I've had a Network Railcard endorsed with Gold Card in the name normally. Presented with the smartcard, it is good for Gold Card discounted tickets on SWT. It may or may not work with other TOCs (it generally doesn't work).

The reason why this is the case is simple - it was a trial and RSP are/were dragging their heels about it. Ultimately the necessity for the Gold Record Card should cease to exist once SEFT is complete. For the case of running a trial and meeting their DfT obligations (they weren't original franchise obligations to operate a scheme), it was the least worst way of doing it. Overall few people are affected as the majority of Annual Gold Cards run into London on the SWT network and those that don't were generally advised to stay on paper.

 

[jon0844]

That's ridiculous if true, and not mentioned anywhere.

In that case, I need to cancel this ticket and get a full refund or ask them to re-issue as a paper ticket. It's totally useless and I wonder why anyone would go for the smartcard and give up the benefits of the Gold Card (which extend beyond the £13 minimum). They can only fail to understand the extra benefits, which wouldn't surprise me.

If all I get is a Network Railcard, I'm not paying £164 instead of £30!

I hope this isn't a sign of what's to come from smartcards (the end of the Gold Card) because it seems like that's one possibility.

 

[CyrusWuff]

As mentioned in the thread, if you get an Annual from Southern on "the key" then you do get a Gold Record Card by post, which looks similar to the ones issued when purchasing Annual Travelcards on Oyster.

Not that that's a lot of use, as I don't think you can get it for an intermediate journey like Pevensey Bay - Pevensey & Westham (£160).

Bet SWT try and charge a £10 admin fee (and for "used" days) when you apply for the refund though. Would the Sale of Goods Act supply, given an Annual Season (that would otherwise qualify) that isn't accompanied by a Gold Card is clearly neither fit for purpose nor as described?

On a related note, some LU Ticket Offices have been known to issue the old Blue Record Cards (issued with monthly and longer seasons until a few years ago) instead of Gold Record Cards, which could also cause problems...

 

[greatkingrat]

With Oyster seasons, if they are not picked up within a certain number of days of the start date, the transaction is automatically refunded. The SWT system may have a similar rule?

 

[jon0844]

My ticket isn't due to start until Jan 10th (as I'd missed the price rise, I didn't need to get it earlier - even though I'd probably renew it early for next year).

As such, I hope I can get a refund and not pay any admin fees. I also think I'm going to fire off a complaint to ask 1) why I can nominate a station that doesn't have facilities (and I have the email confirming my collection is for St Pancras:

Getting your tickets

You have selected to collect your season ticket at LONDON ST PANCRS station as an electronic ticket to be loaded onto your smartcard.

Your ticket will be available for collection from 04/01/2014.

To collect your tickets, place your smartcard on the validation devices at the station.

and 2) Why this means you don't get Gold Card benefits and what possible reason can there before this? In effect, I'm buying a different ticket (in terms of benefits) when I get it on a smartcard than on paper - but paying exactly the same. With Oyster you get a Gold Record Card and, from what's said above, you do with Southern too. And why wouldn't someone in SWT land ever want to enjoy the extra perks?

I'm such a strong advocate of smartcards that I am somewhat disappointed that it just sounds like a mess, and a total bodge - and even an inferior service. It's just as odd that EMT staff can say that they were expecting these two years ago but it never happened and there are only rumours it might happen this year.

I guess a national smartcard is still going to be some considerable way off.

 

[CyrusWuff]

As such, I hope I can get a refund and not pay any admin fees. I also think I'm going to fire off a complaint to ask 1) why I can nominate a station that doesn't have facilities (and I have the email confirming my collection is for St Pancras:

I'd assume that "collection" for Stagecoach Smart products purchased online works in the same way as Oyster, namely that you can only do so at the nominated station as they have to be sent to a specific gateline. As such, you probably wouldn't be able to "collect" it at Waterloo (or any other station) because the system thinks it's been sent to St Pancras.

 

[Tom]

Each one in turn then:

Southern and SWT between them are probably the furthest in terms of a smart ticketing rollout. However, Southern have a series of defined target dates within their franchise that to launch certain things - whether or not it works very well.

Southern's rollout of record cards must be a recent thing as until very recently they were unable to do this and, as such, didn't issue any annual seasons. I note that examples are available on The Manual. Have sent a question to one of my friends in SWT anyway to inquire further.

I'd recommend to jonmorris0844 that he sends an email to smartcards @ swtrains.co.uk with the problem and that if they're not helpful - I can provide a further contact. They should be happy to convert to a paper ticket if he wants.

As for the reasoning behind some people on annual tickets having a smartcard on SWT, this is mine: the vast majority of my journeys are on SWT territory anyway and at the weekends - thus I can use the six free weekend tickets. Those journeys beyond SWT territory or unable for a NGC discount I can make use of my 16-25 railcard.

My ticket isn't due to start until Jan 10th (as I'd missed the price rise, I didn't need to get it earlier - even though I'd probably renew it early for next year).

As such, I hope I can get a refund and not pay any admin fees. I also think I'm going to fire off a complaint to ask 1) why I can nominate a station that doesn't have facilities (and I have the email confirming my collection is for St Pancras:

I imagine that's a bug with the system they use. For a while it offered smartcard seasons on the West of England line (wasn't planned at that point), someone purchased one and sale on smartcard was disabled at that point.

and 2) Why this means you don't get Gold Card benefits and what possible reason can there before this? In effect, I'm buying a different ticket (in terms of benefits) when I get it on a smartcard than on paper - but paying exactly the same. With Oyster you get a Gold Record Card and, from what's said above, you do with Southern too. And why wouldn't someone in SWT land ever want to enjoy the extra perks?

SWT offer perks over and above what the standard Annual Gold Card offers and I presume, certainly to me, that most people would use those over the standard perks particularly if they have access to other discount methods. I would think that Southern have a target of number of users on smart media hence why they're moving a lot faster - plus it helps their franchise bid.

I'm such a strong advocate of smartcards that I am somewhat disappointed that it just sounds like a mess, and a total bodge - and even an inferior service. It's just as odd that EMT staff can say that they were expecting these two years ago but it never happened and there are only rumours it might happen this year.

I guess a national smartcard is still going to be some considerable way off.

What I mentioned about SEFT is key. South East Flexible Ticketing (SEFT) is intended to be the 'national' smartcard, at least in the former NSE area for now, to replace paper ticketing. Each TOC will likely have their own smart media with their own designs, etc., for now but there is a facility within ITSO to allow interaction between TOC products on the card. The likelihood is that once rolled out the Gold Record card will no longer be necessary as each TOC will be able to read products on smartcards. That's ignoring the fact now if they buy a £250 Android smartphone with NFC and get one of the many free apps...

 

[bb21]

There is at least one advantage of Gold Card over a 16-25 Railcard, namely that you can purchase discounted tickets for you companions too.

 

[Tom]

Not something I personally ever have the need for, though. And besides, given most of my travel on SWT I can make use of my endorsed railcard to cover that one.

 

[CyrusWuff]

There is at least one advantage of Gold Card over a 16-25 Railcard, namely that you can purchase discounted tickets for you companions too.

Also: You're not subject to the £13 minimum fare that Network Railcard holders are; you can take up to four kids with you for £2 flat fare; and you can get a First Class upgrade for a fiver (if you can find someone who knows how to issue it!)

 

[class303]

Is a gold record card worth paying £160 for?

 

[Stats]

I can confirm that with Southern you do get a Gold Record Card. Southern regard it as such a valuable product that they send it special delivery.

I'm such a strong advocate of smartcards that I am somewhat disappointed that it just sounds like a mess, and a total bodge - and even an inferior service.

I can also confirm that smartcards are an inferior service. I have recently discovered that my annual season ticket stored on "the Key" is not valid on FCC services along the BML despite it being "any permitted" and costing the same as a paper ticket which is valid on FCC services. :-x

 

[Chrisgr31]

Each one in turn then:
Southern's rollout of record cards must be a recent thing as until very recently they were unable to do this and, as such, didn't issue any annual seasons. I note that examples are available on The Manual. Have sent a question to one of my friends in SWT anyway to inquire further.

It would certainly appear recent because when I checked (probably late November or early December) the Southern site was saying that if you had an annual season on the Key you would not get a Gold Card.

 

[tsr]

I can also confirm that smartcards are an inferior service. I have recently discovered that my annual season ticket stored on "the Key" is not valid on FCC services along the BML despite it being "any permitted" and costing the same as a paper ticket which is valid on FCC services. :-x

Who said that?

Smartcard technologies are a medium and not the ticket(s) themselves.

Surely if a ticket loaded onto a smartcard is valid on FCC, then it is up to their staff to check it when the smartcard is presented. If they cannot check, it does not mean the ticket is not valid.

 

[jon0844]

SWT offer perks over and above what the standard Annual Gold Card offers and I presume, certainly to me, that most people would use those over the standard perks particularly if they have access to other discount methods. I would think that Southern have a target of number of users on smart media hence why they're moving a lot faster - plus it helps their franchise bid.

I've emailed them now, but would add that FCC offers a few extras to people who buy from them too. I am not sure what the deal currently is, but it used to be some day passes for use on the whole FCC network (technically you chose the stations to go from/to, but in reality could write Peterborough to Brighton or something and then get on/off as you wished). In past years, FCC even offered first class versions.

As such, a few free tickets isn't enough to give up the benefits of a Gold Card in my opinion. SWT still gives these for a paper ticket, so people aren't getting the same value from a ticket when loaded on to a smartcard. That's misleading to me.

Or does SWT only give the freebies to smartcard users?

Anyway, I'll see what SWT has to say. I've got 4 days to resolve this or cancel the ticket altogether and get a refund.

 

[Tom]

I've heard back from SWT and it's still the endorsed Network Railcard (which as I say, is good enough for most people). They say they will be introducing a Gold record card in a couple of months.

 

[jon0844]

I've not had any acknowledgement of my email, so I'm not sure how long I can afford to wait before just calling time out and asking for a refund.

Perhaps tomorrow afternoon. I am NOT going to find myself having to fill in forms for a refund and being charged admin fees!

 

[cjohnson]

SWT claim to have a "dedicated" Gold Card helpline - 0845 607 9999 (6am-10pm) - might be worth trying that instead of waiting for an email.

 

[jon0844]

Just called the above and it was answered in about 1 ring and sounded like I'd called someone who had just been caught eating dinner!!

I gave him my photocard ID and he confirmed there was nothing on the system and also that you don't get a Gold Card with a smartcard, so the best thing for me to do is get a refund and buy an old fashioned card if I want to.

He then gave me an 0870 number which may or may not be one I've already got (0870 906 6649).

I have to say that this is most disappointing. All the benefits lost for the sake of printing a simple record card, just as you'd get with other TOCs or getting an annual ticket on Oyster.

 

[Tom]

I have to say that this is most disappointing. All the benefits lost for the sake of printing a simple record card, just as you'd get with other TOCs or getting an annual ticket on Oyster.

As I pointed out before, the Southern introduction of the record card is a very recent thing and it is not as straight forward as just printing a simple record. If it were that simple, then I'd have got somewhere 5 years ago when I asked about it then.

I suspect the real reason for not getting far with it up to now is a) it's all a trial still (which is disappointing in itself), b) it's a very politically contentious issue and c) the vast majority of annuals are into London, which was significantly delayed due to ITSO on Prestige.

 

[jon0844]

Spoken to the smartcard helpline and they knew of my issue straight away (so obviously got my email). Bit odd they hadn't replied yet, but I'll let it slide - it might have been something they were working on right then.

Anyway, they're swapping me back to an old-fashioned Gold Card paper ticket. They apologised and said it was 'complicated' but that there are some updates happening soon - and for me to hold on to the (smart) card. I think she was implying they'll be addressing the Gold Card issue in due course - so let's wait and see.

She certainly wasn't surprised about me wanting a season ticket purely for getting a Gold Card (and SWT must do pretty well from the extra revenue without ever having to actually find a space for me!).

What I didn't say was that SWT should possibly make this a bit clearer on its website, although if things are going to change then maybe there's no real need. I suppose most people who get annual tickets will have done so now, and either found themselves in my position or are quite happy to be blissfully unaware of the benefits they're missing out on.

Despite the hassle, I have to say well done to SWT and both people I spoke to who have been very helpful and professional. As indeed the rather confused staff at St Pancras who helped as much as they could, given the fact they didn't have a clue about smartcards.

Update: My paper ticket arrived this morning!

Given the fact it was a transfer from smartcard to paper, it's printed as a replacement season. How many people can claim to have a replacement ticket 2 days before it's even due to start?!

Anyway, once again, excellent service from SWT.

There is one thing though; should I need a replacement, I have to go through them. Given I won't be putting my ticket through any gates, I can't see that being a problem - but it could be a bit of a PITA if I do (one problem might be the ink fading inside the ticket wallet, as happened in about two months with my Network Railcard last year).

 

[James Wake]

I actually was speaking with a Fratton guard a few weeks ago, and he said it was difficult to find a Gold card First Supplement (he said something about it being under NFA), but found it after a short while. On 1st Jan on a different train, going to Winchester, it was in reverse from Clapham, so 1st class was at front. He only gave me a weekend first, despite the fact that I said I wanted a Gold Card supplement. On the way back, first class was full of football fans, I got a seat, but the guard never came round. Anyway, they are all £5.

 

[Be3G]

The advantage of the gold card 1st supplement, however, is that it allows you first class travel for the whole day, including on other operators' services. My experience with SWT guards selling it is similar to the first guard you mention – that they default to offering the weekend supplement even if shown a gold card, but can find it fairly quickly once I've clarified that the gold card one is desired for its extra benefits.