SWT Intent to avoid payment Court on Thursday!!!!

[jhchill666]

Hi All,

In late November last year, I was stopped at London Waterloo, having walked through open turnstyles without a ticket. On 5th January this year I received a lettericon from SWT Prosecutions Department asking me to submit any mitigating factors to them within 14 days, which I did. Then a couple of weeks ago, a summons arrived, with 2 charges:

1) Did travel, or attempt to travel, upon a railway without having previously paid the fare and with the intention to avoid payment thereof,

2) Did contravene Byelaw No.9(2), in that you did without permission from an authorised person, enter or leave railway premises without passing through the manned or automatic barrier, in the correct manner.

Background.

In August 2014 my family moved to Farnham, Surrey, having lived in London for 15 years. From then on I began commuting into London Waterloo from Farnham, buying a weekly season ticket each week. On the day in question, I'd got on the train before realising mine had expired. Usually a ticket inspector checks everyone's tickets and offers new ones to people wanting to purchase one. The train was unusually busy, and I did not see him before arriving at London Waterloo.

On approaching the ticket barriers, one was open, so I stroud through. At that point I was detained by a very hostile ticket inspector, who alledged I'd barged through behind a fee paying passenger, and the rest is history.

My gut feeling for a defence here, is that the title of the first charge, simply isn't true. I never had the 'the intention to avoid payment thereof', and renewed my season ticket later that day in order to commence the return leg of my journey.

I spoke to the Prosecutions department recently, who said settling out of court was unfeasible. They also said that they'd looked into whether I was a season ticket holder, but nothing turned up - as I only buy weekly tickets, as can't afford the lengthier ones - and coupled with the fact that I had barged behind a passenger, a prosecution was appropriate.

The honest fact of the matter is that the gate was open, and I barged behind no-one. I simply - and niaively - said to myself, I'll renew my ticket later, which I did. I can deal with the Byelaw infringement, but have relatives in Australia and the US, and am likely in the future to need CRB checks, so am keen to avoid a conviction.

I've left this rather late, as have to be in Court at 10am on thursday, so am desparate for any advice anyone can offer.

Jamie

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The fact that you approached an open barrier without stopping would have been seen by the inspector as intending to avoid paying the fare. Whatever you thought at the time bears no relevance, the fact you walked towards an "open" barrier would have been seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid paying

What was the conversation between you and the inspector? I appreciate this was a while ago now but can you remember if he took your details etc?

What mitigating factors did you write to the court, and what was their reply?

 

[telstarbox]

You had already walked past one opportunity to pay at Farnham ticket office. If there's an excess fares window at Waterloo then you would have walked past two.

 

[DaleCooper]

If you buy a weekly ticket each week, presumably on the same day, it must be difficult to forget it has expired.

 

[NSEFAN]

My gut feeling for a defence here, is that the title of the first charge, simply isn't true. I never had the 'the intention to avoid payment thereof', and renewed my season ticket later that day in order to commence the return leg of my journey.

Intent can only be determined by your actions. Questions will be asked as to why you didn't buy a ticket at Farnham and then also didn't buy a ticket from the barrier staff at Waterloo.

The honest fact of the matter is that the gate was open, and I barged behind no-one. I simply - and niaively - said to myself, I'll renew my ticket later, which I did.

Are you sure that the barrier was left open, or could you have accidentally tail-gated? If the latter is true then it looks even more dodgy as far as SWT is concerned, I'm afraid. At this stage you should probably seek a professional lawyer.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

If you are a regular traveller/season ticket holder, how on earth could you forget that it expired?

From what you have written, you realised that it expired once you were on the train, therefore, why didn't you approach staff at the barrier at Waterloo or go to the excess fares window?

Unless any of the experts on here say to the contrary, I think you will find it difficult to get out of this one

Were you not offered a penalty fare, unpaid fare notice or something to this effect? The fact that this is now in court means all other options could be exhausted and you will at best be asked to pay a hefty fine, costs to SWT and court costs etc - or at worst be prosecuted and get a criminal record

 

[Tim R-T-C]

What possible connection to the case does having relatives abroad give?

If a mitigating factor is irrelevant it is best to simply not mention it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Probably at this late stage is to just accept the two charges and offer a settlement plus court costs. It will be expensive for you but it might mean escaping prosecution.

However I doubt if anybody knows what the court will say/do on the day

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would suggest at this stage to instruct a good solicitor, but be aware it will cost you a lot of money.

 

[Monty]

Probably at this late stage is to just accept the two charges and offer a settlement plus court costs. It will be expensive for you but it might mean escaping prosecution.

However I doubt if anybody knows what the court will say/do on the day

Not sure if that is possible as the OP had said that they have already spoken with prosecutions who made it clear they are not interested in settling out of court.

There are a few reasons why a barrier could be open but it's not really relevant, the OP should have approached the barrier staff or a RPI first and explained their situation. The issue with long queues at Farnham during the morning is well known by both train crew and revenue protection alike and they are normally understanding about it and discretion is often used. But by walking through the barrier has opened up a whole world of trouble for the OP.

If the prosecutions department are indeed not really interested in an out of court settlement then the OP must seek legal advice as soon as possible.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The fact that you approached an open barrier without stopping would have been seen by the inspector as intending to avoid paying the fare. Whatever you thought at the time bears no relevance, the fact you walked towards an "open" barrier would have been seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid paying

What was the conversation between you and the inspector? I appreciate this was a while ago now but can you remember if he took your details etc?

What mitigating factors did you write to the court, and what was their reply?

If the whole batch of barriers were open then maybe there was little choice of approaching an open barrier.

Has the OP purchased the weekly tickets by card then this can help show a history of intent to pay.

The fact that the OP has family abroad may be a non defence but I'm not sure why it wouldn't be worth mentioning in Court. This isn't a pleading letter to a TOC, you never know what mood the Court is in and may display a small amount of mercy in the right circumstances.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Definitely get legal advice now. This is a RoRA section 5 prosecution by the looks of it, and will leave a criminal record if convicted.

 

[DaleCooper]

If the whole batch of barriers were open then maybe there was little choice of approaching an open barrier.

Has the OP purchased the weekly tickets by card then this can help show a history of intent to pay.

The fact that the OP has family abroad may be a non defence but I'm not sure why it wouldn't be worth mentioning in Court. This isn't a pleading letter to a TOC, you never know what mood the Court is in and may display a small amount of mercy in the right circumstances.

You don't have to pass through an open barrier.

A history of buying tickets does not change the facts and any gap in that history may make matters worse.

Sympathy regarding family abroad may affect the amount of a fine it will hardly change a guilty verdict into not guilty which was the hope of the OP.

 

[Puffing Devil]

There's little to be gained by bringing in a solicitor now, unless they can persuade SWT to bring a charge under the byelaws instead of the RoRA. This is something the OP may be able to do on the day, but there's little in it for SWT and they have already refused an out of court settlement and moved straight to a summons.

I think the OP is going to have to turn up at court, smartly dressed and properly contrite and take it on the chin. Use the money for a solicitor to pay for a fine. The magistrates will have seen it all before and there will be very little in mitigation from the facts outlined above that will move them in their sentencing guidelines.

Any fine will be "spent" in a year, providing it is paid on time. Unless there is an enhanced disclosure needed from the DBS, it's the last the OP should hear about the matter.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I might also point out that given the OP buys weekly season tickets the 'I didn't know it had expired' line might not carry too well either - understandable on monthly and longer period passes, but if your ticket runs out every Thursday, it must be hard to forget.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You don't have to pass through an open barrier.

Though a reasonable person might do. If the barriers were open and I didn't have a ticket because there was no opportunity to buy one before the journey, or I'd genuinely forgotten my season ticket had expired but realised during the journey and the guard didn't come through, I might well just go to the ticket office to renew it on arrival or buy a return from my origin. Indeed, I'm pretty certain that is what I would do. Edit: However this is not strictly the correct course of action, which would be to identify yourself to the first opportunity to pay which would be any barrier staff if present.

However, I don't recall ever having seen an open barrier with RPIs there, so asking barrier staff would not be an option. So the story seems a little odd. Perhaps the OP did unwittingly tailgate. Was it a wide automatic barrier? These do take some time to close.

 

[Agent_c]

Don't think there's much advice to give. You traveled without a ticket, and tried to leave. Your choices are pleading guilty and begging for a last minute out of court settlement.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I regret to say that the act of passing through the barrier line will fall within the definition of 'intent to avoid payment'. That will now be a matter of fact.

I agree with this assessment:

There's little to be gained by bringing in a solicitor now, unless they can persuade SWT to bring a charge under the byelaws instead of the RoRA. This is something the OP may be able to do on the day, but there's little in it for SWT and they have already refused an out of court settlement and moved straight to a summons.

I think the OP is going to have to turn up at court, smartly dressed and properly contrite and take it on the chin. Use the money for a solicitor to pay for a fine. The magistrates will have seen it all before and there will be very little in mitigation from the facts outlined above that will move them in their sentencing guidelines.

Any fine will be "spent" in a year, providing it is paid on time. Unless there is an enhanced disclosure needed from the DBS, it's the last the OP should hear about the matter.

A solicitor will cost you (perhaps a few hundred pounds) and will be able to argue the most appropriate mitigating circumstances, to reduce your fine (by less than a few hundred pounds).
You could instruct them to offer an agreement in which you promptly accept the Byelaw Offence in exchange for their offering no evidence of the more serious Regulation of Railways Act Offence of "intent to avoid payment". But as Puffing Devil quite correctly explains, you would probably be just as likely to manage to do this yourself, if indeed the Company's Prosecutor is inclined to accept such an offer (which is nothing more than a gamble).

 

[jhchill666]

The conversation was the usual. I co-operated fully and honestly with his questioning.

What possible connection? I understood that should I get a criminal conviction over this, countries such as Austrlia are not going to allow entry to me in the future?

 

[Darandio]

I've left this rather late, as have to be in Court at 10am on thursday, so am desparate for any advice anyone can offer.

You don't strike me as that desperate, it's now 18 hours since you posted and you haven't bothered to answer any questions put to you, despite logging in this morning. Or is it simply because nobody had a magic answer to get you off the hook?

We see this time and time again, people post on here with a very laid back attitude and no grasp on how serious matters like this actually can be.

 

[jhchill666]

One very important piece of mitigation has just come to light, having spent yesterday evening looking at the dates etc.

On the Sunday before, I'd been out running in my local woods, and had a severe Anaphylactic reaction and collapsed and was rushed to hospital. I was in hospital for 24 hours and off work the next 2 days. My first day back into work, on the wednesday, was the day I jumped the gates.

Looking back to my emotional state at that point, I was without question not in my right mind, worried as hell as to what had caused my episode, and honestly unsure whether I was liable to just drop dead!

I have hospital discharge forms and correspondence with my employer to back this up.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[jhchill666]

Don't seem that desparate?! What do you want me to do, scream and shout? I am desparate, I've got to be in court in the morning, with the prospect of a big fine, and a criminal conviction that is very likely to impact my career going forward and ability to visit my relatives abroad.

I signed up to this forum yesterday, and all my replies are still going through a moderator. I'd had no email notifications yesterday as to the numerous responses from the kind people on this forum, and was shocked to see so many when checking if there had been any response.

 

[Llanigraham]

What possible connection? I understood that should I get a criminal conviction over this, countries such as Austrlia are not going to allow entry to me in the future?

But that has no affect on the way the Train company or the Court will treat you.
Do let us know the result of your Hearing.

 

[DaleCooper]

You don't strike me as that desperate, it's now 18 hours since you posted and you haven't bothered to answer any questions put to you, despite logging in this morning. Or is it simply because nobody had a magic answer to get you off the hook?

We see this time and time again, people post on here with a very laid back attitude and no grasp on how serious matters like this actually can be.

The OP did answer one question although it didn't really tell us anything.

The conversation was the usual. I co-operated fully and honestly with his questioning.

Less than 24 hours to go now.

 

[jhchill666]

Is frustrating sitting here, reading everyone's comments and not being able to respond. Moderation of my responses is taking a long time, and time I don't have!

 

[island]

One very important piece of mitigation has just come to light, having spent yesterday evening looking at the dates etc.

On the Sunday before, I'd been out running in my local woods, and had a severe Anaphylactic reaction and collapsed and was rushed to hospital. I was in hospital for 24 hours and off work the next 2 days. My first day back into work, on the wednesday, was the day I jumped the gates.

Looking back to my emotional state at that point, I was without question not in my right mind, worried as hell as to what had caused my episode, and honestly unsure whether I was liable to just drop dead!

I have hospital discharge forms and correspondence with my employer to back this up.

Thoughts anyone?

A great many posters on this forum commit criminal offences relating to railway travel with close proximity to a health difficulty, a recent bereavement, an exam, a stressful period at work, a panic attack &c. Yet they manage to successfully avoid committing other offences at the same time in their day to day lives such as speeding, theft from shops, causing harassment, alarm & distress, and so on. What is it about the railway?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You posted a question and got some honest answers. You have hardly been back since so what are people to think?

You had better hope that the court will show leniency because of your state of mind after being hospitalized but they may take the view that this has nothing to do with the case in hand. And why has this "just come to light". Surely, this would be a very memorable and unforgettable event !?

And your comment of "jumping the gates" clearly can't help you now - lets hope the Prosecuter isn't reading this forum....

 

[jhchill666]

PS. I'm not getting any email notifications when someone posts, so am literally doing a page refresh every couple of minutes!

 

[jhchill666]

Why do I feel like no-one's on my side here?

I've put my hands up and said sorry. I wasn't thinking straight. It's not like I'm a regular evader. I'm a regular back-to-back season ticket holder! It was a one off event, never happened before, and certainly never will again.

Yeah I was stupid, but I honestly did have other things on my mind. Surely some compassion considering the circumstances.

It's only just come to light, as I spent last night looking at the dates around then, and hadn't made the connection between the two events. But the connection is a very significant one, as I acted completely out of character, and this event would have certainly affected my judgement.

And my comment of 'jumping the gates' was just a turn of phrase. Ridiculous to bring that up.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

As a new member to the forum, I believe it is usual for a moderator to check posts etc - so don't take this personally.

Unfortunately, the railways do not run on compassion. The fact that you may be of "good character" makes no difference to them. They have lost revenue from you and want paying.

Whatever you did/said in the past to the TOC/Prosecutions department must not have been satisfactory, otherwise they wouldn't be taking you to court.

A bus would not let you on unless you paid the driver, or showed a valid season/oyster etc. You could not walk into a shop and walk out with goods and tell them you would pay them next time.

As you have been advised, turn up to court, look smart and for goodness sake, do not show any attitude. The facts are you travelled without a ticket and passed through an open barrier. Whatever your excuses/reasons may not be relevant to the court. They want paying...