SWT Guards- What is the rota pattern / Are flexible working patterns available??

[Firey868]

Hello i am going for a job as a Guard with SWT trains, to be based at Staines,
but does anyone know what the weekly rota pattern is for this role at the Staines depot please?

One of my colleagues used to work out of Woking depot, and he told me there they had some kinda horrific pattern where you had to work 7days in a row, get just 2days off, then work 7days in a row again!

I personally never do jobs where you have to work more than 4days per week (partly to enable a decent work/life balance, and partly cos my mother is registered blind, and so i can only do 4on 4off OR 4on 3off 3on 4off (12hour shifts) rota pattern jobs, to match in with my dad, to ensure someone is always at home to look after her).


But so does anyone know what the rota pattern is for guards at Staines depot please?

And also does anyone know what SWT's policy is regarding flexible working patterns if you have a requirement for one (such as needing to act as a carer for a disabled family member)?



Thankyou inadvance

 

[dctraindriver]

Hello i am going for a job as a Guard with SWT trains, to be based at Staines,
but does anyone know what the weekly rota pattern is for this role at the Staines depot please?

One of my colleagues used to work out of Woking depot, and he told me there they had some kinda horrific pattern where you had to work 7days in a row, get just 2days off, then work 7days in a row again!

I personally never do jobs where you have to work more than 4days per week (partly to enable a decent work/life balance, and partly cos my mother is registered blind, and so i can only do 4on 4off OR 4on 3off 3on 4off (12hour shifts) rota pattern jobs, to match in with my dad, to ensure someone is always at home to look after her).


But so does anyone know what the rota pattern is for guards at Staines depot please?

And also does anyone know what SWT's policy is regarding flexible working patterns if you have a requirement for one (such as needing to act as a carer for a disabled family member)?



Thankyou inadvance

It's the same as Woking 7 on 2 off then a long weekend of 4 off every 3 weeks I believe.

 

[Bigfoot]

Roster won't be 4on 4 off or similar. Guards rosters are not as pretty as the drivers.

 

[Bigfoot]

Also pretty sure that flexible working only comes into play when you're already employed and need a change in hours due to a change get of circumstances. Also they don't have to give you it if the needs of the business can't be met. I know of guards who tried to get a job share (think part time, one person's work shared with two people) and that was refused, appealed and still refused.

 

[Lrd]

You should have discussed that at the interview.

 

[Dieseldriver]

If shift working is so bad that you are already thinking of being accommodated before starting the job, I don't think it's for you. Sorry but erratic and unsociable shift patterns is such an integral part of Traincrew jobs, if you can't hack it, don't do the job.

 

[dctraindriver]

You should have discussed that at the interview.

It says he's going for the job? Maybe he hasn't had the interview yet.

 

[Lrd]

It says he's going for the job? Maybe he hasn't had the interview yet.

Apologies, I read it as "going to accept". I should refrain from posting before my morning coffee!

 

[Need2]

I personally never do jobs where you have to work more than 4days per week (partly to enable a decent work/life balance, and partly cos my mother is registered blind, and so i can only do 4on 4off OR 4on 3off 3on 4off (12hour shifts) rota pattern jobs, to match in with my dad, to ensure someone is always at home to look after her).

I can totally understand your perspective and needs when it comes to being a carer but, your first reason (in bold) I find incredulous.
Good luck with your future job hunting.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Anyone who starts at a depot and requires to be 'accommodated' (flexible shift patterns) will find that their depot colleagues don't take kindly to it largely because those colleagues who have been there for a number of years will have to pick up the slack.

We have it at Fratton, certain people always seem to want swaps, spend time 'off track' or get what some see as preferential treatment. We all do the same job and we should all take the rough with the smooth.

 

[theironroad]

Anyone who starts at a depot and requires to be 'accommodated' (flexible shift patterns) will find that their depot colleagues don't take kindly to it largely because those colleagues who have been there for a number of years will have to pick up the slack.

We have it at Fratton, certain people always seem to want swaps, spend time 'off track' or get what some see as preferential treatment. We all do the same job and we should all take the rough with the smooth.

....And if two drivers or guards want to do a mutual swap, what business is that of anyone else?

I agree that there are issues with accommodation and it is a bit of a political football and others have to pick up the slack. I've no issue with short term accommodation but long term is a bit of an issue but mutual swaps aren't the same.

 

[Firey868]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Just to say, i dont have any issue whatsoever in working shift patterns,
as every job that ive ever done was shift work, never done a monday-friday due to the nature of job sector.

However ive never ever heard of any job where you have to work 7days on/2days off, 7on/2off, on a regular basis!

As the majority of shift work jobs are roles where you work 12hour+ days every day,
and so you only work 3-4days per week out of 7, to meet your contracted hours.


But i guess on the trains you work very short days, but so have to work a large number of days in a row to meet your hours.
Which may be great and suitable for some people such as if you've got kids and wife to see in the mornings before work or afternoon n evenings, but simply isnt suitable for other people who've got carer responsibilities on fixed days.

Im not looking to waste my time or the employer's time by interviewing for a job which has a rota pattern that would not be suitable for my life though,
hence why i asked for clarification on this forum about the rota pattern a Staines.

 

[Greenback]

We';re all massively influenced by our own experiences. I worked several years of shifts wiuht the Post Office and on the railway, and I've never done 12 hour days except by agreeing to overtime.

I know people that do work 12 hour shifts, usually 4 days on and 4 days off. Thes einclude factory workers and police officers, but I also know of people in the same line of work that don't do 12 hrs 4 on and 4 off at all.

I have to say that giuven shift work has trditionally been 8 or so hours or so earlies, lates or nights, I'm a bit surprised you haven;t come across these sort of shift patterns before.

 

[tsr]

However ive never ever heard of any job where you have to work 7days on/2days off, 7on/2off, on a regular basis!

It's one of the more extreme roster patterns I've come across for conductors/guards the south of England, and I must say I'm surprised it's been allowed, as 7 days of early turns (which, lest we forget, often begin way before the regular train service starts - say 3/4am) every few weeks would destroy a lot of people's body clocks and immune systems. Likewise late turns in the summer (winter tends not to be so bad as people make less noise outside and there's less by way of early sun/warmth).

But i guess on the trains you work very short days, but so have to work a large number of days in a row to meet your hours.

Not always true at all, I'm afraid. Railway shift start times and shift lengths vary wildly and some are very short, some very long. There is no real standard within or between companies, and if locally agreed rules don't force something, the movements of trains and crew to meet the franchise obligations concerning timetabled frequency of services will often be the dictator of what goes on, which has some interesting results.

There are plenty of companies where train crew will only work slightly shorter weeks with a mix of shifts permitted to theoretically range from around 6 to 11.5 hours, and a 7 day continuous working week will probably only have a range of times slightly shorter than that. It seems most crew nowadays, as a rule, are glad of anything less than 9 hours or so, which might not seem much until you're driving home at 2am.

A lot of companies do have local agreements, if they're worth the paper they're written on, which restrict the length of shifts with very early starts, but with these and all others, maximum value for money tends to be extracted from the employee (some rostering rules permit breaks right at the end of shifts, followed by "travelling pass[enger]" to the home depot, as an example, which means many people just dispense with any break and work solidly before going home early).

 

[the sniper]

Are we talking here about a 4 day week with booked and/or committed Sundays, thus resulting in doing 7 days straight, but with the Sunday being outside of the week?

 

[theironroad]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Just to say, i dont have any issue whatsoever in working shift patterns,
as every job that ive ever done was shift work, never done a monday-friday due to the nature of job sector.

However ive never ever heard of any job where you have to work 7days on/2days off, 7on/2off, on a regular basis!

As the majority of shift work jobs are roles where you work 12hour+ days every day,
and so you only work 3-4days per week out of 7, to meet your contracted hours.


But i guess on the trains you work very short days, but so have to work a large number of days in a row to meet your hours.
Which may be great and suitable for some people such as if you've got kids and wife to see in the mornings before work or afternoon n evenings, but simply isnt suitable for other people who've got carer responsibilities on fixed days.

Im not looking to waste my time or the employer's time by interviewing for a job which has a rota pattern that would not be suitable for my life though,
hence why i asked for clarification on this forum about the rota pattern a Staines.

Traincrew shifts and rosters seems to be unique even among shift workers. It's someone called variable rostering. As start and finish times can vary day to day. While on a set of salary shigts, they don't all start at 0600-1400 or 0600-1800. One day may start at 0421 and be 8 hours long, the. Next day may start at 0553 and be 9 hours long, the next 0355 and be 7 hours long.

Parts of the roster are designated as 'spare/as ordered/as required' which on the base roster may show you as 0700 for 8.25 hours finishing at 1515. Then 36 hours before a particular day the daily roster sheet is produced which may show you picking up a job starting at 0900 and last 9.5 hours so now finishing at 1830. This is all within your contract and you can't refuse the change in start times or the extension to your shift.

If you're trying to plan an event outside of work on a day where you are as ordered you have to factor in all the potential movement and extension of the shift times. In fact if your base rostered shift is cancelled ahead of time, you can also be moved and extended, though this is usually limited to engineering work.

* Since privatisation each TOC makes its own agreements through collective bargaining with drivers and guards so the parameters for moving a shift can now vary from toc to TOC and may differ between drivers and guards in the same toc.

Train crew rostering is a nightmare and variable shift rostering lead to the 1982 national drivers strike which the drivers ultimately lost. You need a good diary and a bodyclock and lifestyle that can adapt to shift start and end times being all over the place.

 

[BestWestern]

Are we talking here about a 4 day week with booked and/or committed Sundays, thus resulting in doing 7 days straight, but with the Sunday being outside of the week?

Sundays are 'inside' for SWT Guards.

 

[TEW]

Sundays are 'inside' for SWT Guards.

You are still able to request a Sunday off unpaid, but it will only be granted if rosters are able to cover all the work. You could never rely on being able to have them off.

 

[Firey868]

Ive got no issue doing long or unpredictable finish time shifts, as that is exactly what i do no, except for less money and far longer hours than train guards get!

(I start work at 5:30am every morning, and finish between 4pm - 8pm every day, 5days per week), so is a 52-60hour week every week, which is needed to get to a salary of 26k-28.5k.

(As basic pay for 40hours pw is just 21k per year, which is extremely low considering the dangerous element of my job)


I wasn't creating this thread to discuss or debate the merits or fairness of various types of rotas though.

Was simply asking if anyone on here actually works for the Staines depot/or knows anyone who works for the Staines depot, and so know for 100% certain what the actual rota pattern for guards is there??

As everyone ive spoken to merely speculates or gives guesses, but none know for certain.

 

[dctraindriver]

Ive got no issue doing long or unpredictable finish time shifts, as that is exactly what i do no, except for less money and far longer hours than train guards get!

(I start work at 5:30am every morning, and finish between 4pm - 8pm every day, 5days per week), so is a 52-60hour week every week, which is needed to get to a salary of 26k-28.5k.

(As basic pay for 40hours pw is just 21k per year, which is extremely low considering the dangerous element of my job)


I wasn't creating this thread to discuss or debate the merits or fairness of various types of rotas though.

Was simply asking if anyone on here actually works for the Staines depot/or knows anyone who works for the Staines depot, and so know for 100% certain what the actual rota pattern for guards is there??

As everyone ive spoken to merely speculates or gives guesses, but none know for certain.

The first reply spelled it out pretty accurately........

 

[BestWestern]

You are still able to request a Sunday off unpaid, but it will only be granted if rosters are able to cover all the work. You could never rely on being able to have them off.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. They do otherwise form part of the rostered 42(?) hour week though, and are not paid at overtime rate - is that right?

 

[TEW]

That's interesting, I didn't know that. They do otherwise form part of the rostered 42(?) hour week though, and are not paid at overtime rate - is that right?

Correct on both counts. And yes, a 42 hour average week. (In theory.) The only enhanced rate of pay available is for working free days, paid at 1.25 times the normal rate.

 

[SurfTofino]

I don't know the shift patterns at Staines....BUT: Apart from the shift work at the depot later on, when you start there's full time training (Monday to Friday) for about 2 months before you even start your route learning. If you miss 2 or more days chances are you will be bumped into the next Guards​ course coming up rather than be able to complete the one you started in...which means it will take you longer to complete training, get to the stage where you'll start your shift work and you'll stay on training salary for longer as well.

 

[Firey868]

Ok, cheers for all the replies and info guys.

Ive since been offered an interview at the assessment centre, and so hopefully il be successful in getting the job.


1 last question though, does anyone know if lunch breaks are paid or unpaid for SWT guards?

And so are break hours included in your 42hours, or ontop of your 42hours?

 

[BestWestern]

Ok, cheers for all the replies and info guys.

Ive since been offered an interview at the assessment centre, and so hopefully il be successful in getting the job.


1 last question though, does anyone know if lunch breaks are paid or unpaid for SWT guards?

And so are break hours included in your 42hours, or ontop of your 42hours?

Paid, always... This is the railway, not the bus division!

Hours are your complete shift, book on until book off. You won't always work 42 hours in a week; some weeks more, some less. Average 42 across the link (rota).

 

[TEW]

And with the 'As Ordered' shifts included it's likely you may end up not doing 42 on average, could be more or less. You can easily end up with enforced overtime, which is paid at your standard rate. Equally you could end up doing less hours than rostered, whilst still getting paid for the full amount.

 

[Firey868]

Ok cheers for all your help and info guys.

Now just gotta hope that i manage to pass all the assessment centre test papers and interview. :/

 

[Mojo]

It's one of the more extreme roster patterns I've come across for conductors/guards the south of England, and I must say I'm surprised it's been allowed, as 7 days of early turns (which, lest we forget, often begin way before the regular train service starts - say 3/4am) every few weeks would destroy a lot of people's body clocks and immune systems.

I used to work a roster that had 7 dead earlies in a row and found it was by far the best way to do those duties, as after the first one I was tired enough to get sleep from about 7.30pm on subsequent nights. And pretty much everyone who does nights at our place does 7 on the bounce as well; makes it much easier on the body for me as well as avoids losing the day after nights as recovery time more than necessary.

I currently work a roster that has lots of periods of 7 days in a row, either 2 earlies and 5 lates or 5 earlies and 2 lates; this gives us a number of long weekends as you progress through the roster.