SWT Class 450s from Portsmouth Harbour Peak Time

[class395rules]

Hi just a quick question. During the peak times more so in the morning are the class 450s that work the Portsmouth Direct Line 12 cars? or a mixture of 8 and 12 cars?

regards
Paul

 

[swt_passenger]

Mostly 12.450 if not 444. Morning peak up direction looks like this (EH via Eastleigh):

2P12 04 30 3 Waterloo 5 444
2P14 05 19 3 Waterloo 5 444
1T18 05 43 5 Waterloo EH 12 450
2P90 05 50 4 Waterloo 12 450
1P16 06 15 5 Waterloo 10 444
1T20 06 23 3 Waterloo EH 12 450
1G18 06 42 4 Waterloo 10 444
1T22 06 50 5 Waterloo EH 8 450
2P22 06 55 4 Waterloo 12 450
1P20 07 13 4 Waterloo 12 450
1T24 07 24 5 Waterloo EH 5 444
2P94 07 29 3 Waterloo 5 444
1G22 07 45 4 Waterloo 5 444
1T26 07 55 5 Waterloo EH 5 444
1P24 08 15 3 Waterloo 5 444
1P26 08 45 4 Waterloo 5 444
1T30 08 59 5 Waterloo EH 5 444

 

[class395rules]

thats brilliant thank you for the reply

I guess is it the same from Waterloo to Portsmouth mixture of Class 444 and 450 12 cars?

regards
Paul

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, but the evening peak is more spread out so I reckon there are slightly more 8 car 450s overall. I've dug out the Portsmouth bound services for 1600-1900, took a little longer as the list I have shows all Waterloo trains! I've also added a few trains that stop short that fill in the gaps that would otherwise occur in the sequence...

1P49 16 00 11 Portsmouth Hbr 8 450
1T49 16 09 9 Portsmouth Hbr EH 5 444
2P49 16 15 13 Portsmouth Hbr 5 444
1P51 16 30 14 Portsmouth Hbr 10 444
1T51 16 39 10 Portsmouth Hbr EH 8 450
2P51 16 45 13 Portsmouth & S'sea 8 450
1P53 17 00 10 Portsmouth Hbr 10 444
1T53 17 09 13 Portsmouth Hbr EH 5 444
2P53 17 15 14 Fratton 8 450
1P55 17 30 13 Portsmouth Hbr 12 450
1T55 17 39 12 Portsmouth Hbr EH 8 450
1G55 17 45 11 Havant 10 444
1P57 18 00 12 Portsmouth Hbr 12 450
1T57 18 10 10 Portsmouth Hbr 12 450 - (but 8 cars dropped at Eastleigh)
1G57 18 15 13 Fratton C 10 444
1P59 18 30 14 Portsmouth Hbr 12 450
2P59 18 46 9 Portsmouth Hbr 12 450
1P61 19 00 12 Portsmouth Hbr 10 444

Hope that's of interest...

 

[rmt-driver]

I have sometimes seen a 450 coupled to a 444 making a 9 car unit... is this common occurrence?

 

[swt_passenger]

I have sometimes seen a 450 coupled to a 444 making a 9 car unit... is this common occurrence?

The only diagrammed 450/444 pairings I can find are ECS moves to depot - any that happen in passenger service seem to be reacting to unit non-availability, or during emergency engineering works etc...

Probably happens often enough now not to be considered unusual, but for quite a while after introduction I believe the two types didn't multiple reliably, so it wasn't diagrammed at all...

 

[Oracle]

Not seen any lately but 450 + 444 (leading) and 444 + 450 combos have in the past been 'not uncommon'.

Wasn't it said that a problem in one dissimilar unit would reproduce in the other when they were coupled together?

One thing I have never seen is 444 + 2 x 450 ... no doubt it has happened!

 

[thefab444]

450 + 444 + 450 formations occured during testing.

 

[Ivo]

Presumably such a formation couldn't work in passenger services though, given it would total 13 cars (five of which are 23m long)?

 

[Oracle]

That's what i thought, too

 

[class395rules]

thank you for the time to do the lists i find them very intersting

Paul

 

[thefab444]

Might as well post this here as it is fairly relevant.

Comparison of Waterloo evening peak rolling stock formations 2006 to 2011

Colour coding for the 2011 formations:
Grey - No change
Green - An improvement in capacity or quality
Orange - A change but no marked improvement or deterioration e.g. 10 444 replaced by 12 450.
Red - A deterioration in capacity or quality e.g. 10 444 replaced by 8 450

On the whole, despite the bleak picture painted by the Portsmouth line users, things have either remained fairly similar or actually improved. The worst period is between 1700 and 1800, where a number of key formations, especially the 1709, 1739 and 1748 have been reduced.

It's also interesting to see that despite the big increase in diesel stock between 2006 and now, only three extra peak carriages have actually been provided! There were plans for one evening WOE working to be strengthened to ten coaches, presumably the 1750, but this seems to have fallen through.