SWT Circular routes

[pethadine82]

I have noticed that there are a lot of circular routes on the SWT network.
Why is there no service that goes from
Waterloo to Weybridge - Virginia Water - Staines , Richmond and back to Waterloo. The connections at weybridge are poor, as soon as the mainline comes in the Waterloo via Hounslow train has left.

 

[swt_passenger]

I have noticed that there are a lot of circular routes on the SWT network.
Why is there no service that goes from
Waterloo to Weybridge - Virginia Water - Staines , Richmond and back to Waterloo. The connections at weybridge are poor, as soon as the mainline comes in the Waterloo via Hounslow train has left.

Fairly straightforward explanation is that Weybridge is not a grade separated junction, and the route is just far too busy in that area for down trains to cross over the down fast and both up lines to access the branch.

 

[pethadine82]

They could do what they did at Hitchin, make a flyover to cross the lines.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Dive under anyone? About £50m.

 

[Ianno87]

What existing services would you propose losing from the Waterloo-Weybridge-West Byfleet-Woking corridor to allow such a loop service to operate?

A £50m flyover does nothing to create capacity for these to be additional services via the SWML into Waterloo.

Even if capacity were available (e.g. after Crossrail 2), the need for extra trains at Woking and beyond is far, far greater than those of Chertsey and Addlestone (the sole beneficiaries of a loop service). I don't think that there are any other likely significant flows that would benefit from a direct connection (Surbiton to Staines being the best contender, and not a very good one at that)

 

[30907]

There was a small number of services in the peaks post electrification. The last (up direction only by then at Weybridge for reasons already stated) ran 35-40 years ago.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

What existing services would you propose losing from the Waterloo-Weybridge-West Byfleet-Woking corridor to allow such a loop service to operate?

A £50m flyover does nothing to create capacity for these to be additional services via the SWML into Waterloo.

Even if capacity were available (e.g. after Crossrail 2), the need for extra trains at Woking and beyond is far, far greater than those of Chertsey and Addlestone (the sole beneficiaries of a loop service). I don't think that there are any other likely significant flows that would benefit from a direct connection (Surbiton to Staines being the best contender, and not a very good one at that)

I was being a bit flippant when I said about a dive under, which is the only way you could do it as there's no way you could build a flyover there anyway.

I don't know nor do I care what happens to London suburban services, however I do think that they should be transferred to TfL as soon as possible.

 

[GW43125]

What would be nice is a direct Staines-Woking and back as the 25-minute connection is a right pain.

 

[Bald Rick]

Dive under anyone? About £50m.

You can multiply that by 4!

 

[bb21]

I have noticed that there are a lot of circular routes on the SWT network.
Why is there no service that goes from
Waterloo to Weybridge - Virginia Water - Staines , Richmond and back to Waterloo. The connections at weybridge are poor, as soon as the mainline comes in the Waterloo via Hounslow train has left.

Loop services are much more susceptible to delays and punctuality problems (even more so in this case with the congested routes into/from Waterloo at both ends).

 

[GW43125]

Loop services are much more susceptible to delays and punctuality problems.

As journeycheck will tell you, one of the first indications of things going up the spout is rounders skipping stops.

 

[yorkie]

They could do what they did at Hitchin, make a flyover to cross the lines.

Great idea. I see this has just been announced:

Network Rail have allocated dozens of millions of pounds to install a flyover at Weybridge.

The work will include demolishing a sewage works and compulsorily purchasing dozens of homes.

This will enable a Waterloo to Waterloo route via Virginia Water, Staines, Weymouth, then direct to Waterloo.

Services will run on a frequent basis, and the Alton and Basingstoke services will be cut back to release capacity.

Lee Mottingham, spokesperson for SWT, said "This is fantastic news; the new flyover represents excellent value for money"

 

[Segedunum]

[QUOTE="Network Rail" definitely official article;2942675]Mr Mottingham went on to say that "we're in contact with Booth's at the moment with regards to the 707s, having decided that we will instead have them scrapped and deploy 2 car 456s on peak services" [/QUOTE]

Nice man [emoji38]

 

[bb21]

Lee Mottingham

My SouthEastern mates will love that one.

No Martin Heron or Virginia Waters this year then?

 

[GW43125]

While we're at it, how about reinstating the curve at Virginia Water allowing a direct run from Chertsey to Longcross?

Yeah, I'll keep dreaming

 

[bb21]

While we're at it, how about reinstating the curve at Virginia Water allowing a direct run from Chertsey to Longcross?

Yeah, I'll keep dreaming

Only be of some use during disruption, saving a reversal at Virginia Water, but that wasn't any major inconvenience atm.

Mainline can't take more trains as things stand, and the additional paths created in the aftermath of various upgrades and Woking flyover are all spoken for.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Only be of some use during disruption, saving a reversal at Virginia Water, but that wasn't any major inconvenience atm.

Mainline can't take more trains as things stand, and the additional paths created in the aftermath of various upgrades and Woking flyover are all spoken for.

But it would give operational flexibility when you get a fatality (of which there have been several recently) between Richmond & Egham, so a Reading service could simply go around to Weybridge with no faffing about and minimal delay.

It would also offer the possibility of Camberley circular (albeit with a reversal at Aldershot) too, which would keep the every pesky Camberley Society quiet, in their campaign for a service to London in less than 50 mins. Yeah right dream on! :roll:

 

[GW43125]

Only be of some use during disruption, saving a reversal at Virginia Water, but that wasn't any major inconvenience atm.

Mainline can't take more trains as things stand, and the additional paths created in the aftermath of various upgrades and Woking flyover are all spoken for.

I was taking the mick!

 

[Busaholic]

Lee Mottingham

My SouthEastern mates will love that one.

No Martin Heron or Virginia Waters this year then?

He was one of my best mates at school, along with 'Kid' Brooke Eltham. We were known as the SE9ers.

 

[bb21]

I was taking the mick!

Well we are allowed momentary SOH loss surely?

 

[AlterEgo]

They could do what they did at Hitchin, make a flyover to cross the lines.

Have you seen the junction at Weybridge? Where would you fit a grade separated junction?

 

[MichaelAMW]

There was a small number of services in the peaks post electrification. The last (up direction only by then at Weybridge for reasons already stated) ran 35-40 years ago.

A single morning Virginia Water to Waterloo survived until at least 2002 (didn't have time for an exhaustive archive check), as did the pseudo-ECS working of the last down branch train that continued to run through from Staines to Wimbledon.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

What would be nice is a direct Staines-Woking and back as the 25-minute connection is a right pain.

At one time the trains through Feltham on Sundays used to carry on to Woking not sure if they still do.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

But it would give operational flexibility when you get a fatality (of which there have been several recently) between Richmond & Egham, so a Reading service could simply go around to Weybridge with no faffing about and minimal delay.

It would also offer the possibility of Camberley circular (albeit with a reversal at Aldershot) too, which would keep the every pesky Camberley Society quiet, in their campaign for a service to London in less than 50 mins. Yeah right dream on! :roll:

A year or so ago when there was a freight train stuck between Ashford and Staines during the evening peak I was directed to a Windsor train that was routed via Weybridge. I left the train at Staines to get a train heading for Feltham but after 10 minutes we boarded the same train that was now going back to Waterloo rather than reversing to Windsor. That is the only time I have done a loop via Weybridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

At one time the trains through Feltham on Sundays used to carry on to Woking not sure if they still do.

They still do on Sundays in the current timetable, and the new franchise ITT also allows for that particular service variation on Sundays in the post 2018 future.

 

[GW43125]

They still do on Sundays in the current timetable, and the new franchise ITT also allows for that particular service variation on Sundays in the post 2018 future.

Currently one in the morning, one in the evening, and hourly on Sundays. Unfortunately it looks like that's the way it'll stay as the 25min Weybridge connection is less than ideal!

 

[GW43125]

Well we are allowed momentary SOH loss surely?

It would appear I had that too!

 

[30907]

A single morning Virginia Water to Waterloo survived until at least 2002 (didn't have time for an exhaustive archive check), as did the pseudo-ECS working of the last down branch train that continued to run through from Staines to Wimbledon.

Beg pardon, memory fail on my part.

 

[swt_passenger]

Currently one in the morning, one in the evening, and hourly on Sundays. Unfortunately it looks like that's the way it'll stay as the 25min Weybridge connection is less than ideal!

The connections might change if the service reduces to a shuttle to Virginia Water though; as is suggested in the ITT to make room for the 4 tph Reading service.

That of course makes it even less likely that another circular service could ever run as suggested by the OP...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The connections might change if the service reduces to a shuttle to Virginia Water though; as is suggested in the ITT to make room for the 4 tph Reading service.

That of course makes it even less likely that another circular service could ever run as suggested by the OP...

No, but the curve from the Longcross side onto the Chertsey line could provide a significant amount of journey opportunities and keep the Camberley Society quiet and better use of the Byfleet curve.

As well as providing the ability to run direct to Waterloo in times of disruption.