SWT 158s - Exeter?

[CC 72100]

Afternoon all

Just a quick query - over the past 5 or so days, I've noticed 158s appearing on Waterloo- Exeter SD services. Normally couples with a 159 (as opposed to 2x159), but the other afternoon a 158 by itself. I don't recall ever having seen an SWT 158 at Exeter before - are they normally not diagrammed to come this far West? Also is there any specific reason why I've seen some over the past couple of days and haven't ever before?

Thanks in advance.

 

[wintonian]

Afternoon all

Just a quick query - over the past 5 or so days, I've noticed 158s appearing on Waterloo- Exeter SD services. Normally couples with a 159 (as opposed to 2x159), but the other afternoon a 158 by itself. I don't recall ever having seen an SWT 158 at Exeter before - are they normally not diagrammed to come this far West? Also is there any specific reason why I've seen some over the past couple of days and haven't ever before?

Thanks in advance.

What's the one on loan to FGW? is it a 158? - I'm having brain fail today.

 

[Smod]

I'm sure others will be far more informed than me, but I have noticed that since the floods (and no doubt other engineering works) the 158s and 159s have been mixed up a bit more than usual.

I have also noticed sets with the first class at the Exeter end rather than the London end. And the 0819 Woking to London (which I think originates from Exeter) has been 6 cars a couple of times rather than the usual 9 cars. Which can be challenging as it's normally full and standing from Woking anyway.

 

[Temple Meads]

They aren't normally diagrammed to come to Exeter, apart from an Exeter - Axminster all shacks service (and they aren't on that service that often), but as mentioned above, the floods are a possible reason for more frequent appearances, or maybe something to do with the timetable change?

 

[CC 72100]

Both timetable change and flooding results sound plausible. I'm not so surprised at 159+158 combinations, but a single 158 was a bit of a surprise the other afternoon.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They aren't normally diagrammed to come to Exeter, apart from an Exeter - Axminster all shacks service (and they aren't on that service that often),

Aye. Can safely say they are a bit of a rare beast down here

 

[PHILIPE]

What's the one on loan to FGW? is it a 158? - I'm having brain fail today.

The loan 158 to FGW was allocared off Salisbury Depot on a daily basis returning there from Westbury at the end of the day. I have my suspicions that the lease may have finished if somebody could confirm, please.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I had 2 x 159s and a 158 / 159 combination when I went to Honiton ex-London on Saturday, so it was in effect on the day before the timetable change at least.

As an aside, is there any difference between a generic 158 and a 159 aside from the coupler, which I believe is EMU-compliant on 159s (like the 171s)?

 

[Lrd]

As an aside, is there any difference between a generic 158 and a 159 aside from the coupler, which I believe is EMU-compliant on 159s (like the 171s)?

The 159s have more powerful engines iirc.

 

[Charlie2555]

I went on a combo of two Class 158s and one class 159 forming a 7 coach train back in April and I don't think there was anything special going on at the time! I got a video of it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmR0jbOLvzg

 

[starrymarkb]

I had 2 x 159s and a 158 / 159 combination when I went to Honiton ex-London on Saturday, so it was in effect on the day before the timetable change at least.

As an aside, is there any difference between a generic 158 and a 159 aside from the coupler, which I believe is EMU-compliant on 159s (like the 171s)?

I believe they were going to have Turbo couplers, but they sprinter ones were fitted in the end.

159s have 400hp engines (as do some 158s)

But 159=NSE spec 158. They are pretty similar mechanically

 

[TEW]

The loan 158 to FGW was allocared off Salisbury Depot on a daily basis returning there from Westbury at the end of the day. I have my suspicions that the lease may have finished if somebody could confirm, please.

It stopped for a couple of days because the hire agreement finished but it restarted again. I'm not sure if there is currently still a unit on hire.

 

[PHILIPE]

Thanks. Was FGW 150/2 on the Golden Valley Diagram today.

 

[TEW]

On both? There are two Golden Valley units. It can do some other diagrams from time to time as well.

 

[D2022]

The loan unit was on the Cheltenham Spa off Swindon a few weeks ago, think it was 158766 iirc.

 

[fgwrich]

The loan unit was on the Cheltenham Spa off Swindon a few weeks ago, think it was 158766 iirc.

Wouldnt be that, as 158766 (normally found in 158951) is FGW unit. South West Trains 158s are in the 158/8 series - 158880 to 158890, and one should still be on Daily hire to First Great Western.

Mind you, 158s shouldnt be completely rare down in Devon - dosent one or two of FGWs usualy make it onto the Cardiff to Paignton?

 

[TEW]

158766 is a 2-car unit along with 158763. 158951 is 158764 and half of 158751. The Cardiff-Paignton diagram is booked for a 150/9 but does produce a 158 quite often. A two-car 158 is booked for a couple of workings in the evening peak around Exeter.

 

[fgwrich]

Ah, thanks TEW. Was either outdated info or incorrect info - mind you, the 158/9s seem to change every now and again.

 

[Goatboy]

Mind you, 158s shouldnt be completely rare down in Devon - dosent one or two of FGWs usualy make it onto the Cardiff to Paignton?

Such a shame these units are now such a rare sight in Devon. They are, IMHO, amongst the best DMU's on the network (If not *the* best if they've had a half decent refurb?). Comfortable, smooth riding, proper IC style cabin with a isolated vestibules and not even that noisy inside either. Fantastic units. Much, much better than the 150's FGW now use for most of the 4-5 hour services they run

 

[D2022]

866 then? I'm sure it's 66 on the lat two digits.

 

[starrymarkb]

866 then? I'm sure it's 66 on the lat two digits.

No such unit. 158866 did exist for a couple of months in 1993* but is now a 159 (I think it's either 003 or 004)

*Because of the peculiarities of BR/BREL politics the 159s were orignally 2 car 158s for Regional Railways. They were diverted to NSE (and additional centre cars were ordered) but BREL wouldn't build the interiors to NSE spec. So the units were delivered as 158s (with numbers following on from the RR units) but before entering service were sent to Babcock at Rosyth for fitting out where they were renumbered as 159s. The vehicle numbers remain as the original 158 allocation. The new build centre cars follow on from the TPE units

 

[CC 72100]

Such a shame these units are now such a rare sight in Devon. They are, IMHO, amongst the best DMU's on the network (If not *the* best if they've had a half decent refurb?). Comfortable, smooth riding, proper IC style cabin with a isolated vestibules and not even that noisy inside either. Fantastic units. Much, much better than the 150's FGW now use for most of the 4-5 hour services they run

Totally agree.

Back on the subject of the SWT 158s - none today as yet, but I just find it strange that they've started appearing in the past couple of days. Granted I didn't live by the station last year, but I definitely didn't see any last year.
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158766 is a 2-car unit along with 158763. 158951 is 158764 and half of 158751. The Cardiff-Paignton diagram is booked for a 150/9 but does produce a 158 quite often. A two-car 158 is booked for a couple of workings in the evening peak around Exeter.

Just gone past Westbound with a 3 car 158/9 today.

 

[D2022]

No such unit. 158866 did exist for a couple of months in 1993* but is now a 159 (I think it's either 003 or 004)

*Because of the peculiarities of BR/BREL politics the 159s were orignally 2 car 158s for Regional Railways. They were diverted to NSE (and additional centre cars were ordered) but BREL wouldn't build the interiors to NSE spec. So the units were delivered as 158s (with numbers following on from the RR units) but before entering service were sent to Babcock at Rosyth for fitting out where they were renumbered as 159s. The vehicle numbers remain as the original 158 allocation. The new build centre cars follow on from the TPE units

Oh, I will have to check with the spotters at Swindon later today on my way to Westbury. They will know the number and I will get back to you with it. Was a long shot me trying to remember

Thanks for the info, that's some handy background there

 

[Charlie2555]

Such a shame these units are now such a rare sight in Devon. They are, IMHO, amongst the best DMU's on the network (If not *the* best if they've had a half decent refurb?). Comfortable, smooth riding, proper IC style cabin with a isolated vestibules and not even that noisy inside either. Fantastic units. Much, much better than the 150's FGW now use for most of the 4-5 hour services they run

I like the ones with the square kind of seats, as seen on the SWT units but the ones with the other type of taller seat with the headrest kind of thing are very uncomfortable.

 

[ainsworth74]

Such a shame these units are now such a rare sight in Devon. Much, much better than the 150's FGW now use for most of the 4-5 hour services they run

Yes when I was down there earlier in the early summer I planned my activities to avoid those services unless it was only a short hop. It would be good to get 158s on them as they're the kind of service a 158 would be good for. Maybe when the 165/166s are available FGW will be able to get some 158s moved around and onto those services?

 

[Goatboy]

Yes when I was down there earlier in the early summer I planned my activities to avoid those services unless it was only a short hop. It would be good to get 158s on them as they're the kind of service a 158 would be good for. Maybe when the 165/166s are available FGW will be able to get some 158s moved around and onto those services?

Didn't FGW get a pile of 158's taken off them? Madness really when you consider SWT use 158's on an electrified branch line service all day whereas if you want to travel on a 2 hour journey from Bristol to Great Malvern you get a 150 with 3+2 seating and no tables thats probably come all the way from Weymouth!

 

[ainsworth74]

Didn't FGW get a pile of 158's taken off them?

I actually thought they'd gained some! Back when TPE was divesting itself of all the 158s when the 185s arrived. They went all over the place but I thought some of them went to FGW. If it was possible to wrestle some off of ScotRail (perhaps replaced by cascaded 170s from EGIP electrification?) you could send the 158s to FGW to liberate some 150s to either go to Northern or to replace the 143s around Exeter. Just an idle thought (that I've not really thought about in detail ).

 

[455driver]

As an aside, is there any difference between a generic 158 and a 159 aside from the coupler, which I believe is EMU-compliant on 159s (like the 171s)?

Same couplers as all the other 142-170 classes (it was the Southern 170s that had a coupler change and renumbered as 171s)

A SWT 158 has 2 coaches and a 159 has 3.

The 158s and 159/1s have 350hp engines
the 159s have 400hp engines.

Other than that they are basically the same (slightly smaller First Class area on 158s).

 

[PHILIPE]

On both? There are two Golden Valley units. It can do some other diagrams from time to time as well.

I.m aware there are 2 Golden Valley Diagrams but the 150/2 I saw was on the SWT one which attaches to 06 04 Salisbury to Westbury and then on 07 06 Westbury to Cheltenham. The other starts Gloucester (originaaly ECS ex PM) and FGW 158/0

 

[AlexS]

No such unit. 158866 did exist for a couple of months in 1993* but is now a 159 (I think it's either 003 or 004)

*Because of the peculiarities of BR/BREL politics the 159s were orignally 2 car 158s for Regional Railways. They were diverted to NSE (and additional centre cars were ordered) but BREL wouldn't build the interiors to NSE spec. So the units were delivered as 158s (with numbers following on from the RR units) but before entering service were sent to Babcock at Rosyth for fitting out where they were renumbered as 159s. The vehicle numbers remain as the original 158 allocation. The new build centre cars follow on from the TPE units

Duff gen.

158866 is well and truly in existence, although I suppose you're right in that it is very unlikely to be 'down sarf'. It's currently operated by East Midlands Trains. You need to go about 20 numbers higher.

 

[fgwrich]

I actually thought they'd gained some! Back when TPE was divesting itself of all the 158s when the 185s arrived. They went all over the place but I thought some of them went to FGW. If it was possible to wrestle some off of ScotRail (perhaps replaced by cascaded 170s from EGIP electrification?) you could send the 158s to FGW to liberate some 150s to either go to Northern or to replace the 143s around Exeter. Just an idle thought (that I've not really thought about in detail ).

Bit of a clever rue by First Group actually. I'm sure i've wrote about this before in another thread, but here goes of what i can remember. Back in 2006/7, When First Group took over the Great Western Franchise they did indeed loose a fair chunk of Class 158s & 4 class 153s (302, 308, 355 & 374) to storage in Eastleigh Works. By the start of the franchise, the combined fleet class 158 fleet in the GW franchise was a mix bag of ex Wessex Trains, Ex Central Trains, and the incoming TPE Units, owned by both Angel Trains and Porterbrook. First took the option of ditching the mixed bag units - including 4 different type of engine set ups - Cummins & Perkins included, and settling on a fleet of ex Wessex & Ex TPE Class 158s leased from Porterbrook, leaving the Angel units to sit in Eastleigh and then onto Northern Rail/Scotrail & East Midlands Trains - who took the majority of the mixed bag ones. As for those dogboxes, to say they were the dogs bo''xes when they arrived would be an understatement. I don't know what East Midlands has done to them, but there's a reason why those 4 were chosen!