SWR taxi refund - is there hope?

[Vexed]

This morning I was attempting to travel from Southampton Airport Parkway (SOA) to London Waterloo (WAT), for onward travel on the 1003 LNER service from Kings Cross (KGX) to Edinburgh. I had a pre-purchased ticket from Kings Cross to Edinburgh and used SWR Tap2Go from SOA to WAT. I was planning to get the 0700 service to WAT, the first of the day. Unfortunately due to overrunning engineering works this was delayed; the SWR website said the line was expected to reopen at 0815 and disruption would last to 1000. These were between Eastleigh and Winchester (including Winchester station). In the end, the line reopened just after 0800 and the train I was trying to get (0700) was about 65 minutes late and cancelled at Basingstoke (arriving 0847).

The 0700 was scheduled to arrive into WAT at 0843, giving plenty of time to make the 1003 from KGX. The next scheduled service 0802 from SOA to WAT is scheduled to arrive at 0940 which doesn't give enough time to make the 1003 from KGX (actual arrival of the 0802, so the earliest possible without a taxi, was 0947 which is a delay of 64 minutes compared to my planned arrival time).

I could have accepted the delay and taken a later LNER service, but I didn't want to do this for the following reasons:
- I was meeting a friend in London and we were both booked on the 1003 with Advance tickets. As he was coming in on Thameslink and on time I don't think there is a clear cut right for him to take a later LNER service due to my delay
- We are only spending an hour and a half in Edinburgh before travelling back to London so you can see why we wanted an on time arrival in Edinburgh to grab some food etc and not feel rushed
- Using Tap2Go, I did not have a pre-purchased ticket for SOA to WAT so I was concerned the LNER Train Manager wouldn't allow me to travel on a later service

I asked SWR on X if they were allowing for taxi claims, which as a TOC they do quite often. At 0711 they replied that taxi claims were not currently authorised.

I was looking at alternative options to make the 1003 from KGX and found the best would be the 0810 from Basingstoke (BSK) - this originated from Salisbury so wouldn't be affected by the overrunning engineering work. With no other options or updates from SWR I took an Uber from SOA to Basingstoke, leaving SOA at 0727 and arrived at Basingstoke at 0759. The 0810 arrived at Waterloo on time 0909. At this time on a Sunday the minimum connection time from Waterloo to Kings Cross is 15+28+15 = 58 minutes (1007). In reality I got to Kings Cross at about 0940.

Sorry for all those words. Here is my planned journey and tickets in a table

0700 SOA (actual 0810)	0843 WAT (cancelled)	Pay as you go - Tap2Go
0843 WAT	0941 Kings X St P LU (arrival based on the Minimum Connection Times)	PAYG - TfL Contactless
1003 KGX (On time)	1335 1435 EDB (actual 1441)	Advance ticket

Actual

0727 taxi from SOA	0759 arrival at BSK	Uber booking
0810 BSK (actual 0812)	0909 WAT (on time)	PAYG - Tap2Go*
0909 WAT	0940 Kings X St P LU	PAYG - TfL Contactless
1003 KGX (On time)	1435 EDB (actual 1441)	Advance ticket

Kings X St P LU = Kings Cross St Pancras London Underground

*Tapped in at Southampton Airport Parkway and out a Waterloo. I did not tap out SOA or in at BSK for the Uber so I have paid for train travel for the section covered by a taxi.
This is further complicated by the fact I tapped in at 0701 or 0702 (I'll check exactly when the tap history is visible online overnight) [edit - I can see it's been recorded as 0701] so just after the scheduled departure. I saw the delay on the phone before I got to the station so didn't rush to lock my bike up or tap in. In hindsight I probably should have made an effort to tap in earlier so make it clear cut that I could have made the 0700.

So, my key question - do I have a chance claiming back the taxi? Under PRO as the delay was over an hour I believe this means I have a right to rerouting. I asked SWR for a taxi and they declined, so does this mean I have a legitimate claim to get it back?

I have had no further contact with SWR after they said no taxis were currently authorised as I want to know where I stand and let the Tap2Go taps go through online, before contacting them again.

Spoiler: Text from attached images

SWR X Chat
Me @ 0706

Hello, I'm currently waiting for the 0700 from Southampton Airport Parkway to London and it seems it will be delayed by over an hour (estimated reopening at 0815 on your website) - are you currently authorising taxis? I have a connecting LNER service to make at 1003.

SWR @ 0711

Hi ---, unfortunately, the taxi claim back is not currently in place, apologies ^MC

Disruption advice

Due to overrunning engineering works between Winchester and St Denys all lines are blocked.
Impact:
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. Disruption is
expected until 10:00 05/10.
Customer Advice:
Engineers are on site finishing the works, and we expect the lines to re-open at 08:15.
If you need any help with your journey, please speak to a member of staff or use a station help
point.
We are very sorry for any disruption to your journey.
Further Information
If you would prefer to use local buses to continue your journey please check Traveline. South
Western Railway tickets are not valid on local buses unless stated above.
Have you been delayed?
Please see this page for our compensation policy. If you would like to make a comment about your
experience with us today, please call us on 0345 6000 650 or visit this page for other ways to
contact us.
Want to know more about the common causes of delays and what we're doing to reduce their
frequency and impact? More information can be found on the Network Rail website.

Last Updated:
05/10/2025 07:00

Edit: There were no staff at Southampton Airport Parkway to speak to. On the National Rail site the ticket office opens at 0745 - between ordering my Uber and it arriving someone in SWR uniform arrived but there was no point in asking them as a) they hadn't opened the station building or got into the ticket office yet and b) any further delays and I would miss the 0810 from Basingstoke and subsequently the 1003 from Kings Cross would be impossible to catch

 

[Belperpete]

If at the time that you started your journey you already had valid ticket(s) for the entire through journey, then I think that you would have had some right under the PRO to a refund of your taxi fare. However, you would probably have had a fight on your hands to get it, as TOCs seem to take the view that they would rather just pay delay repay than pay to avoid the delay.
However, if I understand correctly, you were aware of the delay before you started your journey, and you didn't actually start your journey by tapping in until after your intended train should have departed. It looks to me that at the time you paid your fare and started your journey, you knew that you didn't have a workable itinerary.

If you were going to be seriously inconvenienced by the delay, then you might garner some sympathy for a concessionary payment. However, the reasons why you wanted to catch that particular train from KX seem quite weak. Having to travel on a different train to your friend is hardly life-changing. Likewise not wanting to rush your food. It was not as though you would miss the last flight, or a parent's funeral.

I think many people will be wondering why you didn't just abandon the journey and get a refund of your tickets. Although that too could be problematic without having tickets for the whole journey. I could see LNER resisting a refund of an advance ticket from KX just because a train from Southampton, that you didn't even have a ticket for, was cancelled.

 

[John R]

I guess you meant an arrival time at 1435?

 

[gray1404]

How much was the Uber? How much was the ticket from Basingstoke to London Waterloo? I wonder if it might just be worth asking them to refund this under the circumstances.

 

[Vexed]

However, if I understand correctly, you were aware of the delay before you started your journey, and you didn't actually start your journey by tapping in until after your intended train should have departed. It looks to me that at the time you paid your fare and started your journey, you knew that you didn't have a workable itinerary.

That's true but this seems to be a fundamental problem with Pay As You Go travel. Are you expected to tap in before looking at the departure board/phone? (I'm not trying to argue with you here, just seems like a paradox)

At the time of the tap in in had no idea how bad the delay would be. All I had seen was "delayed" on my phone with the reason as overrunning engineering work. I only saw the expected reopening time when going on the SWR website after tapping in.

If you were going to be seriously inconvenienced by the delay, then you might garner some sympathy for a concessionary payment. However, the reasons why you wanted to catch that particular train from KX seem quite weak. Having to travel on a different train to your friend is hardly life-changing. Likewise not wanting to rush your food. It was not as though you would miss the last flight, or a parent's funeral.

I do understand what you're saying here.

I think many people will be wondering why you didn't just abandon the journey and get a refund of your tickets. Although that too could be problematic without having tickets for the whole journey. I could see LNER resisting a refund of an advance ticket from KX just because a train from Southampton, that you didn't even have a ticket for, was cancelled.

It was a bit of a mess all round really. I wasn't planning to be in Southampton last night/this morning when booking the tickets which is the issue here.

I guess I'm reasonably lucky the Uber was cheaper than I thought it would be, especially with my Uber One membership.

I guess you meant an arrival time at 1435?

Good catch, I'll fix that now

How much was the Uber? How much was the ticket from Basingstoke to London Waterloo? I wonder if it might just be worth asking them to refund this under the circumstances.

Uber was ~£47 discounted from ~£62. Which I think is reasonable and I do accept it might never come back. SWR rail ticket was £32.15, but again no clear entitlement to get it refunded as I did travel and only arrived at Waterloo 20 mins late. I think claiming Delay Repay would be a bad idea unless customer services offer an equivalent amount.

Ultimately I won't be annoyed if I don't get it back as I do understand why I wouldn't. I'm happy with the decisions I made this morning. But this is close to the last straw - my last two non-local SWR journeys have now incurred significant delays (admittedly both Network Rail's fault) so I can't wait to (hopefully) pass my driving test next week.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2025 ==

I think I will send an open-ended message as succinct as possible to SWR and see what they offer. Thanks all for checking I haven't missed anything.

 

[Hadders]

I think you'll need to send a concise email to SWR customer services and see what they say.

 

[Belperpete]

That's true but this seems to be a fundamental problem with Pay As You Go travel. Are you expected to tap in before looking at the departure board/phone? (I'm not trying to argue with you here, just seems like a paradox)

Agreed. PAYG does seem to put people in a weaker position.

At the time of the tap in in had no idea how bad the delay would be. All I had seen was "delayed" on my phone with the reason as overrunning engineering work. I only saw the expected reopening time when going on the SWR website after tapping in.

It is the tapping in after the time the train was due to depart that is problematic. It either means that you arrived too late to catch that train, or that you were already aware that the train was running late when you tapped in and effectively bought your ticket. In your concise email to SWR, I would not mention this detail, as it is irrelevant to what subsequently happened.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2025 ==

I was going to comment that it might be worth checking that tapping in and then back out at Southampton hadn't led to some kind of charge, as can happen on TfL. However, I have just seen the bit where you state that you didn't tap back out at Southampton, nor did you tap in at Basingstoke.

While it meant that you paid a fare from Southampton, and so were entitled to be carried from Southampton, it is problematic as it is going to look to SWR as though you actually travelled by train. I recommend that in your email you attach some proof of your Uber journey and it's cost.

On the other hand, if you had tapped out, you wouldn't have paid the fare, so would have had no right to be carried. Again, it seems to be another example of where PAYG puts you in a lose - lose situation.

 

[Watershed]

@Vexed you've already had responses explaining the best course of action, which is to ask SWR for a gesture of goodwill towards the taxi fare. But I wanted to go into more detail on the fundamental issues which would, in my view, preclude any legal entitlement to reclaim the cost of your taxi.

1) Tickets not joining up
The first issue is that you arguably weren't making a through journey to Edinburgh, because you lacked a National Rail ticket covering the cross-London journey. NRCoT 14.2 allows you to make a single journey with multiple tickets but requires that:

Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.

Ticket is a capitalised word and is defined in Appendix B as meaning:

any physical or electronic document or record which entitles a passenger to make a journey on the National Rail Network between the stations or within the zones indicated by one or more of the Train Companies.

And National Rail Network is defined as:

the network of railway lines over which Train Companies operate scheduled passenger railway services

London Underground Limited is not listed as a Train Company in Appendix A. Therefore, since you were using contactless PAYG purely for the Tube (rather than a mixture of Tube + NR services), this was not a journey "on the National Rail Network" and hence it did not qualify as a Ticket under the NRCoT. Incidentally, contactless journeys entirely on the Tube fall under TfL's separate Conditions of Carriage, rather than the NRCoT.

Therefore, your Tap2Go PAYG validity and your LNER ticket didn't join up - one ended at Waterloo, the other started at Kings Cross - and it could be argued that they constituted separate journeys. I'm not sure SWR would be so harsh as to suggest this, but it's an argument you could potentially face if the matter went further (e.g. to Court).

2) Known delay/not touching in until after departure time
In my view, the fact you didn't touch in before the departure time wouldn't necessarily be fatal to a claim for re-routing. It's unclear when exactly the contract to travel is formed - the NRCoT says that it comes into force "when you purchase a Ticket" so they evidently haven't thought through the practical implications of that in the context of PAYG ticketing.

Either way, since you had a reasonably generous cross-London connection planned, a delay in arriving at Waterloo of up to 22 minutes would still have left you with the official minimum connection time (MCT) to cross London to reach Kings Cross. The problem is that with the train status being "Delayed" (i.e. with no ETA) rather than a specific delay amount ≤22 mins, it could be argued the following clause from Article 17(4) of the PRO kicked in:

The passenger shall not have any right to compensation if he is informed of a delay before he buys a ticket, or if a delay due to continuation on a different service or re-routing remains below 60 minutes.

Now technically speaking, this only rules out delay compensation and not re-routing. However it is pretty clear that it is intended to encapsulate the general principle that you can't claim for known delays.

I think you would have been on clearer grounds if the train had been advertised as running, say, 10 minutes late - you'd still be touching in before the new estimated departure time, and based on the then-applicable ETA at Waterloo, the MCT would still have been left.

I don't think that using PAYG vs a paper/eTicket is necessarily the decisive issue here either. The underlying issue is that any sort of ticket bought after a delay is known does not qualify for delay compensation or re-routing.

3) No entitlement to re-routing in this case
Even if we put the above issues to one side for a moment, I don't think the PRO re-routing obligation kicked in here. Had you waited for the delayed 07:00 from SOA and then changed at Basingstoke where it terminated short, you would have been at Waterloo at 09:47 and thus at Kings Cross in time for the 10:30 LNER train. With that being scheduled to arrive at Edinburgh at 15:10, you would have arrived there 35 mins late. Even if you missed that and took the 11:00 LNER train you'd still be scheduled to get there for 15:18, only 43 mins late.

Either way it's clear you would not have expected a delay of more than 60 mins arriving into Edinburgh. And since Article 16 of the PRO requires an anticipated delay of "more than 60 minutes" to kick in, you didn't have the right to be re-routed in this case.

Of course, if the line wasn't expected to reopen for hours and/or if there were known delays on the ECML, it might be a little different. But as things stood, you would have had enough time to have something to eat in Edinburgh before heading back to London on the 16:00(?) service. Clearly it wouldn't have been as much time as you'd planned, but I don't think you would want your travel to/from Edinburgh to be regarded as one continuous journey, otherwise that would serve to further increase the threshold before you would have the right to re-routing (you'd need to have an anticipated 61+ min delay arriving back in London...).

Unfortunately passenger rights don't really cover you very well in this sort of situation, where you have lots of constraints, like wanting to be on the same train as someone else but starting from different places, wanting to have a short time at your destination before returning. In all honesty I can't think of many countries or parts of the world where they would.

4) Re-routing unlikely to cover taxi
Even if the right to re-routing had been engaged in your case, it is to be re-routed "at the earliest opportunity, subject to comparable transport conditions". The latter part is very unclear as to whether it's supposed to be a restriction on the right to re-routing (i.e. would it be OK to offer a journey with the same number of changes if a direct train would be quicker) or a clarification that re-routing can't be worse (e.g. standard-only trains where you have a first class ticket).

But from all the guidance and case law I'm aware of, whilst re-routing might encompass other means of transport, those would still have to be means of public transport, i.e. buses, coaches, ferries - or in a limited number of cases, perhaps also flights.

Private transport (i.e. taxis) is unlikely to be interpreted as being covered under the right to re-routing; it is generally only covered where you would otherwise be stranded overnight or there is huge disruption such that there's no ETA of when train services will resume. SWR may routinely offer to reimburse taxis but that is likely to be above and beyond their legal obligation in some cases (equally they might refuse to reimburse you in some cases where they're obliged to, but that's a separate issue).

Friend's entitlement to re-routing

As to your question whether your friend would be entitled to take a later train, the answer is almost certainly no. His ticket was a completely separate contract, with no clear link to yours. Only if it was a Two Together discounted ticket, or a Duo, Small Group, GroupSave etc. ticket - where it's a prerequisite of the discount that you travel together - would that come into the picture.

There would be no harm in asking LNER whether they'd be prepared to let your friend travel later. But with Sunday morning trains usually being extremely busy on LNER, the answer is likely to be no unless there is a very good reason to do so (e.g. the later train is expected to be much quieter).

 

[Vexed]

Thank you for the further advice Hadders, Belperpete, and Watershed. I emailed SWR over the weekend and got a reply back today, they have agreed to pay out the taxi fare of £47.62

I'm a little surprised at this as I did explicitly suggest a goodwill payment of similar value to my ticket (£32.15) or some delay repay equivalence if they didn't feel paying the taxi was fair.

Possibly not the best decision in the moment but luckily it turned out in my favour.

 

[Belperpete]

Thank you for the further advice Hadders, Belperpete, and Watershed. I emailed SWR over the weekend and got a reply back today, they have agreed to pay out the taxi fare of £47.62

I'm a little surprised at this as I did explicitly suggest a goodwill payment of similar value to my ticket (£32.15) or some delay repay equivalence if they didn't feel paying the taxi was fair.

Possibly not the best decision in the moment but luckily it turned out in my favour.

Good to know.

 

[Starmill]

As to your question whether your friend would be entitled to take a later train, the answer is almost certainly no. His ticket was a completely separate contract, with no clear link to yours. Only if it was a Two Together discounted ticket, or a Duo, Small Group, GroupSave etc. ticket - where it's a prerequisite of the discount that you travel together - would that come into the picture.

There would have been other ways to create this link, for example, all of the relevant tickets could have been booked simultaneously and using one payment method. However, even then, I accept some people would still take the view that the travel arrangements weren't actually linked because of that, although I would disagree. Unfortunately as it appears this wasn't done here, that principle doesn't enter into this case.

If the OP had booked an Advance from their origin to a U-zone for their journey to London Kings Cross, to give one example, this could have been added to the one from London to Edinburgh in such a way as to create a clear single journey.

 

[AdamWW]

If the OP had booked an Advance from their origin to a U-zone for their journey to London Kings Cross, to give one example, this could have been added to the one from London to Edinburgh in such a way as to create a clear single journey.

Is it now well established that splitting tickets across London terminals doesn't count as a through journey?

I presume then this also applies to any walking link between stations outside London.

 

[Starmill]

Is it now well established that splitting tickets across London terminals doesn't count as a through journey?

I presume then this also applies to any walking link between stations outside London.

I think it's unclear. If there is a walking link the tickets are still valid so that may be a different situation. This is the case between London St Pancras and London Kings Cross for example.

 

[Joe Paxton]

[...]
Ultimately I won't be annoyed if I don't get it back as I do understand why I wouldn't. I'm happy with the decisions I made this morning. But this is close to the last straw - my last two non-local SWR journeys have now incurred significant delays (admittedly both Network Rail's fault) so I can't wait to (hopefully) pass my driving test next week.
[...]

Out of interest what would you have done if you'd been driving? Presumably driven to Basingstoke, and not all the way to King's Cross (or even Edinburgh?!).

 

[Vexed]

Out of interest what would you have done if you'd been driving? Presumably driven to Basingstoke, and not all the way to King's Cross (or even Edinburgh?!).

If I'd have driven to Airport Parkway I guess I might have gone on to Basingstoke in my own car instead of a taxi. Probably £6-7 return in fuel.

Or going the whole way I might have driven to St Albans (1hr 45m on quiet Sunday morning) and met my friend there for us to get the train into London together. But I'd have needed to leave at 7:00 to leave enough time for that.

More generally when going home for a weekend it would depend on if I was doing anything else and my timings as SWR's morning Saturday restrictions aren't very helpful. The less restrictive Off Peak Return is double the cost to drive, even with a railcard.

 

[fandroid]

Parking usually costs money too. Basingstoke station car park is around £10 a day on a weekday.

Driving is fun when first starting, but problems on motorways can be every bit as awful as train disruption, and you normally can't just dump the car and escape by other means!

 

[Vexed]

Parking usually costs money too. Basingstoke station car park is around £10 a day on a weekday.

Still would have worked out much cheaper than the taxi.

Driving is fun when first starting, but problems on motorways can be every bit as awful as train disruption, and you normally can't just dump the car and escape by other means

I agree completely, I've spent hours not moving on the M25 (& A282 at Dartford I suppose) when visiting grandparents every half term.

Most of my travel home from uni by train was early morning Saturday and back Sunday evening or late Monday morning so road traffic should be okay at those times, accidents aside.

My parents will soon be moving to High Wycombe but I will still have school/sixth form friends back in St Albans so the balance is tipped towards the car. Once you consider last mile transport getting between High Wycombe and St Albans by train isn't a very attractive prospect, unless I'm drinking of course!

I'll finish here so the thread doesn't get derailed, but ultimately doing a Civil Engineering degree I need a car so I can drive to summer placement/internship sites that public transport doesn't cover or by definition is closed because of our engineering work!

 

[Egg Centric]

problems on motorways can be every bit as awful as train disruption, and you normally can't just dump the car and escape by other means!

One random thing to be aware of as you start your driving career @Vexed is that (almost?) all motorway services will have a way to exit the motorway - put in essentially archaicly for staff to have access without their own vehicle. Very rarely (like Scratchwood Services) there will be some sort of civil penalty and enforcement thereof for using them if you're not staff. Vast majority? Nope. You may be going against a "no entry" sign sometimes, but it's not a statutory one. This may come in useful for you in certain types of disruption - the exits will be easy to spot on an aerial view.

Sometimes they're even explicitly signed for specific routes, e.g. at Tebay or Hilton Park.

(This is different to using "Works Only" entrances/exits. Some of them may or may not be usable in practice, but they are criminal offences and sometimes significant risks of being anti social by e.g. tying up emergency services)

 

[fandroid]

As a (retired) civil engineer myself I understand your position. I have owned a car since graduating and it still adds a lot to my enjoyment of life. I've just got sick of long road journeys and now enjoy the challenge of getting to far away and obscure places by public transport alone.