SWR Strike Timetables

[infobleep]

Perhaps you haven't read the last few comments in this thread so I'll summarise as you've maybe got the wrong end of the stick:
Post #264: why no service via Cobham?
Post #267: apparently the signallers weren't doing overtime.

In assuming that signallers would normally do some amount of overtime (my railway friends certainly like to do a bit of overtime when it's up for grabs) I deduced that something was going on for no signallers at Wimbledon to be doing any overtime, which would go some way to explaining SWR's appalling planned service levels over the period.

Hope that makes things clearer.

I thought the Network Rail overtime ban had been ruled out so can someone confirm that they most definitely decided not to do overtime dispute the RMT advising them not to work to rule or am I misremembering events?

 

[infobleep]

I see that Guildford will have an hourly train service to Woking during the next set of strikes as the signallers are not on strike.

The signaller won't need to do much signaling though as the hourly service is all that will be running.

I assume the back entrance to the station will be shut as usual without any online warning or reference in advance, to stop people from buying tickets for trains that are not running.

Given it is only 1 train an hour, I would expect the front of the station to have one shutter down inside, so people think it is closed as that is what they did when only Great Western Railway services were running during one lot of strikes.

 

[davews]

You are lucky with one train an hour. We on the Reading line have none at all. I thought the original reason why they couldn't operate west of Staines was the signallers, they are not out this time so what gives. Is it SWR taking the easy route and forgetting about passengers?

 

[Goldfish62]

You are lucky with one train an hour. We on the Reading line have none at all. I thought the original reason why they couldn't operate west of Staines was the signallers, they are not out this time so what gives. Is it SWR taking the easy route and forgetting about passengers?

My thoughts exactly. With NR signallers out on strike operating via Richmond and west of Staines would have required cover at Basingstoke ROC. This doesn't apply this time.

Instead Windsor and Hounslow yet again get double the normal service level while the busiest line gets nothing.

I can think of no earthly reason why 2 of those 4 trains an hour couldn't run via Richmond and on to Ascot or Bracknell. The resource level would be identical.

I strongly suspect it's simply because SWR doesn't care.

 

[pompeyfan]

My thoughts exactly. With NR signallers out on strike operating via Richmond and west of Staines would have required cover at Basingstoke ROC. This doesn't apply this time.

Instead Windsor and Hounslow yet again get double the normal service level while the busiest line gets nothing.

I can think of no earthly reason why 2 of those 4 trains an hour couldn't run via Richmond and on to Ascot or Bracknell. The resource level would be identical.

I strongly suspect it's simply because SWR doesn't care.

I would imagine it’s 2 fold, one is that they don’t have the resources to modify the strike timetable at short notice, and secondly they’ve used nearly all of the people that cover stations and guards during the strike.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would imagine it’s 2 fold, one is that they don’t have the resources to modify the strike timetable at short notice, and secondly they’ve used nearly all of the people that cover stations and guards during the strike.

Yes, I understand some of that, but they could have provided a service on the Reading line as far as Ascot or Bracknell within the same resources rather than giving Windsor and the Hounslow loop twice the normal service frequency.

The other day the line was blocked at Longcross for some time due to a safety inspection. Reading services diverted to Windsor during the block. If such alterations can be done with no notice in those circumstances why is it seemingly so impossible to do with a week's notice? It just feels that the railways adopt flexibility to suit themselves rather than their customers.

 

[pompeyfan]

Yes, I understand some of that, but they could have provided a service on the Reading line as far as Ascot or Bracknell within the same resources rather than giving Windsor and the Hounslow loop twice the normal service frequency.

The other day the line was blocked at Longcross for some time due to a safety inspection. Reading services diverted to Windsor during the block. If such alterations can be done with no notice in those circumstances why is it seemingly so impossible to do with a week's notice? It just feels that the railways adopt flexibility to suit themselves rather than their customers.

I would suggest it’s done by different teams that do different jobs. Either way I don’t disagree that it’s not ideal for passengers. Perhaps some local amendments may be implemented closer to the time but I doubt it.

 

[43096]

I would suggest it’s done by different teams that do different jobs. Either way I don’t disagree that it’s not ideal for passengers. Perhaps some local amendments may be implemented closer to the time but I doubt it.

As they're basically running a regular interval service it is not going to take long to plan - indeed running to Bracknell is already planned as they run it every weekday evening - you just plan one round trip and copy and paste. Then add start/end of service ECS moves.

It's just excuses, and pure laziness, that they can't be bothered to change it. WorstGroup OUT.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It's just excuses, and pure laziness, that they can't be bothered to change it. WorstGroup OUT.

It’s the same planning team as it was under Stagecoach and the same planning team as it would be under any other franchise holder so I don’t get your point. I know no planning team who “can’t be bothered”

The team there is running with a horrendous vacancy gap, in case you haven’t noticed the pay deal with the RMT has not been resolved meaning there is very little desire amongst staff to work overtime. Staffing levels are currently at a level that to deliver the day job let alone strike timetables relies on overtime. It’s all very well saying it won’t take long to plan but however long it takes even if just one hour, if that hour requires overtime and nobody is prepared to do it then it won’t get done…

The planners at SWR are on £25-29k (negotiated by collective bargaining) and caught up in this current pay deal (or lack of) meaning they are lagging behind other TOCs in pay and staff retention. If you feel you can make a difference there’s jobs continuously advertised on the SWR website give it a try! Not many people however are taking up that opportunity so how would a change of franchisee help, would be very interested to hear your rationale on how it would.

 

[Snow1964]

The team there is running with a horrendous vacancy gap

Confirms SWR (or specifically their HR Dept) cannot be bothered. A well run organisation plans and sorts its structural holes.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Confirms SWR (or specifically their HR Dept) cannot be bothered. A well run organisation plans and sorts its structural holes.

That’s because SWR is pretty unique that the majority of its planners are Union Members with collective bargaining thus is the only TOC where they majority of the planning team are caught in the industrial action that this post is about, this is out the control of an HR department.

You can’t fill structural holes if people don’t want to apply for the job at that pay, you can’t increase pay because it’s caught up in the national industrial dispute so it’s all a big circle sadly.

 

[JonathanH]

Yes, I understand some of that, but they could have provided a service on the Reading line as far as Ascot or Bracknell within the same resources rather than giving Windsor and the Hounslow loop twice the normal service frequency.

The other day the line was blocked at Longcross for some time due to a safety inspection. Reading services diverted to Windsor during the block. If such alterations can be done with no notice in those circumstances why is it seemingly so impossible to do with a week's notice? It just feels that the railways adopt flexibility to suit themselves rather than their customers.

Do SWR's contingency guards sign the route to Bracknell or Reading?

 

[Goldfish62]

Do SWR's contingency guards sign the route to Bracknell or Reading?

They certainly did before Covid!

 

[boiledbeans2]

On Saturday 18th March, there will be long planned engineering works between Basingstoke and Woking.
But according to the map, they won't even be running RRBs between the 2 stations.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/-/media/389AD9DA1A3E439AA9BB83275EEC021D.ashx

RRBs will be running on Sunday 19th as normal.

 

[Mainline421]

This happened before, although slightly less blatantly. When trains were terminating at Southampton due to the strike, the planned rail replacements from Southampton to Bournemouth were cancelled "because of rail strikes." The whole practice of pre-planned RRBs not running has got to stop. It makes absolutely no sense, is incredibly anti-passenger and really shows the industry has lost track of its entire purpose. TOCs should not be artificially creating disruption under any circumstances!

Sure people will ask why they aren't covering other lines but that doesn't justify cancelling them, and is something that probably should happen on a small scale.

 

[Goldfish62]

This happened before, although slightly less blatantly. When trains were terminating at Southampton due to the strike, the planned rail replacements from Southampton to Bournemouth were cancelled "because of rail strikes." The whole practice of pre-planned RRBs not running has got to stop. It makes absolutely no sense, is incredibly anti-passenger and really shows the industry has lost track of its entire purpose. TOCs should not be artificially creating disruption under any circumstances!

Sure people will ask why they aren't covering other lines but that doesn't justify cancelling them, and is something that probably should happen on a small scale.

Its certainly a far cry from when Stagecoach used to draft in buses and drivers from as far away as Inverness to cover for SWT services on strike days.

 

[Snow1964]

On Saturday 18th March, there will be long planned engineering works between Basingstoke and Woking.
But according to the map, they won't even be running RRBs between the 2 stations.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/-/media/389AD9DA1A3E439AA9BB83275EEC021D.ashx

RRBs will be running on Sunday 19th as normal.

It's also very unclear from that map if services are running Waterloo-Guildford, as the Woking-Guildford part is shown as separate colour, which suggests it is different shuttle service, rather than one train continuing through.

And what happens if more staff decide they would rather not lose more money striking and turn up anyway. It's described as a fixed service level, not a minimum service level, so are SWR intending to have any extra staff that turn up sitting around, or put on extra trains if they can at short notice.

If they have decided they won't put on any extra trains, then seems staff have choice of standing around on a picket line not being paid, or entering the building, signing in, and sitting around in the warm being paid.

 

[DelW]

It's also very unclear from that map if services are running Waterloo-Guildford, as the Woking-Guildford part is shown as separate colour, which suggests it is different shuttle service, rather than one train continuing through.

IIRC during the industrial action in early January, when the Direct was running at all it had one hourly train each way, terminating/starting at Woking. There were no through trains between Guildford and Waterloo via the main line (not sure whether any ran via the New Line but I doubt it).

 

[Goldfish62]

IIRC during the industrial action in early January, when the Direct was running at all it had one hourly train each way, terminating/starting at Woking. There were no through trains between Guildford and Waterloo via the main line (not sure whether any ran via the New Line but I doubt it).

The strike timetables are somewhat hidden in the timetables section of the website rather than in the industrial action section:

Train Timetable | South Western Railway

Our timetables can be downloaded direct to your computer or mobile phone, giving you easy access to the information wherever you are.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Confirms that it's Guildford - Woking only.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Yes, Guildford - Woking shuttle.

No fast Woking - Waterloo trains either, as it seems they binned it because of the Woking - Basingstoke works.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Yes, Guildford - Woking shuttle.

No fast Woking - Waterloo trains either, as it seems they binned it because of the Woking - Basingstoke works.

With the engineering works it may well be that the contingent crews who worked the Southampton/Basingstoke to London service are now trapped wrong side of the block. By the time they have ‘passed’ to the correct side of the block at the start and end of their duty it probably doesn’t provide much of a meaningful service.

 

[Kite159]

I would hope the remaining Woking - Waterloo stoppers will be triple 450s (especially the ones which connect with a Guildford service) for the extra space. Rather than a pair of 455s

 

[TEW]

IIRC during the industrial action in early January, when the Direct was running at all it had one hourly train each way, terminating/starting at Woking. There were no through trains between Guildford and Waterloo via the main line (not sure whether any ran via the New Line but I doubt it).

2tph Waterloo to Guildford via Epsom, nothing via Cobham ran in January

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2023 ==

I would hope the remaining Woking - Waterloo stoppers will be triple 450s (especially the ones which connect with a Guildford service) for the extra space. Rather than a pair of 455s

They've all been 12-450 so far. If they use contingency guards rather than guards managers or trainers they generally only sign one type of stock so very likely to be 450 again.

 

[boiledbeans2]

They've all been 12-450 so far. If they use contingency guards rather than guards managers or trainers they generally only sign one type of stock so very likely to be 450 again.

See post #259 in this thread.

They had been reduced to 8-car in the most recent strikes.

 

[infobleep]

That’s because SWR is pretty unique that the majority of its planners are Union Members with collective bargaining thus is the only TOC where they majority of the planning team are caught in the industrial action that this post is about, this is out the control of an HR department.

You can’t fill structural holes if people don’t want to apply for the job at that pay, you can’t increase pay because it’s caught up in the national industrial dispute so it’s all a big circle sadly.

Does this mean planners at other TOCs are earning more because they are not part of a union?

Whilst I agree with the comments made here regarding why they can't run trains to Reading, within the time they have had available, they have managed to run shuttles to Guildford.

What I can't excuse is rail replacement buses being cancelled, such as the one to Basingstoke. There should be a law requiring a minimum level of service by the TOCs, given the government likes minimum levels of service. Why should buses be exempt? As it is getting political I will end it there.

 

[Goldfish62]

That’s because SWR is pretty unique that the majority of its planners are Union Members with collective bargaining thus is the only TOC where they majority of the planning team are caught in the industrial action that this post is about, this is out the control of an HR department.

So, specifically they're in the RMT rather than TSSA? Thanks. At last the situation with SWR is explained!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2023 ==

You can’t fill structural holes if people don’t want to apply for the job at that pay, you can’t increase pay because it’s caught up in the national industrial dispute so it’s all a big circle sadly.

Re-evaluating the job role and increasing pay as a result would be outside the collective bargaining process so I don't understand why that's not being done. After all the role is critical to SWR service provision so should be a priority to sort out.

 

[pompeyfan]

So, specifically they're in the RMT rather than TSSA? Thanks. At last the situation with SWR is explained!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2023 ==


Re-evaluating the job role and increasing pay as a result would be outside the collective bargaining process so I don't understand why that's not being done. After all the role is critical to SWR service provision so should be a priority to sort out.

My understanding is they are graded in the CO bands, which fall under collective bargaining, to pull them outside of that would be a huge amount of work and a large restructure. Whilst TSSA members have voted to accept the deal, until RMT have resolved the issue all persons within the collective bargaining grades (RO, CO and guards and revenue) go without. All persons within the train planning function could be TSSA, agree to the reform but would still be waiting.

Train planning would have to get themselves recognised in their own right (I believe SWR controllers have recently just done exactly that). I’m sure someone will be along shortly to correct me.

 

[Goldfish62]

My understanding is they are graded in the CO bands, which fall under collective bargaining, to pull them outside of that would be a huge amount of work and a large restructure. Whilst TSSA members have voted to accept the deal, until RMT have resolved the issue all persons within the collective bargaining grades (RO, CO and guards and revenue) go without. All persons within the train planning function could be TSSA, agree to the reform but would still be waiting.

Train planning would have to get themselves recognised in their own right (I believe SWR controllers have recently just done exactly that). I’m sure someone will be along shortly to correct me.

Thanks to you and @HamworthyGoods for shedding light on the situation. Until now it's never been clear to me just why the SWR offering on strike (and overtime ban) days is so relatively poor.

Sounds like the situation with the planners has been festering for ages and should have been sorted out years ago.

 

[TEW]

My understanding is they are graded in the CO bands, which fall under collective bargaining, to pull them outside of that would be a huge amount of work and a large restructure. Whilst TSSA members have voted to accept the deal, until RMT have resolved the issue all persons within the collective bargaining grades (RO, CO and guards and revenue) go without. All persons within the train planning function could be TSSA, agree to the reform but would still be waiting.

Train planning would have to get themselves recognised in their own right (I believe SWR controllers have recently just done exactly that). I’m sure someone will be along shortly to correct me.

I believe it was stated on here that the RMT industrial action in the early part of the year was having quite an impact on train planning at SWR which suggests that they have a fair number of RMT members. I have certainly had it suggested to me that the RMT have more members than TSSA in these sort of grades on SWR than other TOCs.

 

[pompeyfan]

I believe it was stated on here that the RMT industrial action in the early part of the year was having quite an impact on train planning at SWR which suggests that they have a fair number of RMT members. I have certainly had it suggested to me that the RMT have more members than TSSA in these sort of grades on SWR than other TOCs.

I possibly didn’t word my post as well as I could have. I should have said even if all of TPU were TSSA members, we’d still be in this situation, although potentially more overtime and rest day work may have occurred. I’m not sure what the most direct way of resolving the turnover there is, as it’s not possible to just throw money at just their function without the long process of separating them from collective bargaining.