SWR Strike Timetables

[HamworthyGoods]

What has happened to the train service on Thursday 5th Jan, not a strike day, not on overtime ban, SWR Drivers are not involved in
the strikes, yet the service is the same as strike days, earlier this month when there were 2 48hrs strikes, SWR still managed a service
starting later from 0730, SO WHY cant they do the same on 5th Jan. Surely they can copy the same service alterations and crew diagrams.

Believe it or not, there are people who live in parts of Hampshire, Dorset & Surrey who would be very pleased to see a limited train
service across the network rather than those lucky to live in Southampton and above who get 2 trains an hour!!!!

This has been explained in post #236

There’s more factors in play than just who is on strike on the actual day in running a railway.

 

[444045]

I understand what @HamworthyGoods has said in post #236, you can still run a service without depot drivers though,
Stock is outberthed at locations such as Guildford, Ports Hbr, Southampton, Weymouth, Woking & Waterloo to quote afew,
I'm sure stock could be outberthed in middle sidings at Bournemouth as well, been done in the past so a service could be started
up, at those locations it happens everyday.

 

[Watershed]

I understand what @HamworthyGoods has said in post #236, you can still run a service without depot drivers though,
Stock is outberthed at locations such as Guildford, Ports Hbr, Southampton, Weymouth, Woking & Waterloo to quote afew,
I'm sure stock could be outberthed in middle sidings at Bournemouth as well, been done in the past so a service could be started
up, at those locations it happens everyday.

As has been explained by others, this reduced timetable appears to be primarily as a result of it being the only workable timetable that could be implemented given the time and resources available to SWR. Obviously it is far from ideal, but with planners taking industrial action at several TOCs and all of the normal workload still to complete, not every TOC has the luxury of being able to come up with a bespoke plan for every particular combination of industrial action.

 

[pompeyfan]

I understand what @HamworthyGoods has said in post #236, you can still run a service without depot drivers though,
Stock is outberthed at locations such as Guildford, Ports Hbr, Southampton, Weymouth, Woking & Waterloo to quote afew,
I'm sure stock could be outberthed in middle sidings at Bournemouth as well, been done in the past so a service could be started
up, at those locations it happens everyday.

If you used every out berth location Waterloo (excluding Waterloo station) - Weymouth / Portsmouth that wouldn’t require a shunter, you would only have 24 trains, many of which would only be 5 or 8 coaches. That’s no where near enough to be able to run a useable skeleton service. To put into context I believe the current Weymouth - Southampton shuttle uses 5 units.

 

[Bald Rick]

@Bald Rick is the absolute expert in industry planning

Well, now, hang on a minute. I’m not sure about that!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I understand what @HamworthyGoods has said in post #236, you can still run a service without depot drivers though,
Stock is outberthed at locations such as Guildford, Ports Hbr, Southampton, Weymouth, Woking & Waterloo to quote afew,
I'm sure stock could be outberthed in middle sidings at Bournemouth as well, been done in the past so a service could be started
up, at those locations it happens everyday.

No you obviously haven’t understood, you still need someone to plan these changes to outberth the stock! That is part of the problem at present!

In very simple terms: No depot drivers require stock to be outberther. To outberth rolling stock you need to change the train plan, to change the train plan you need train planners. Train planners have been taking part in the industrial action so do not have the resource to make this change so you can’t have stock outberthed!

Hopefully that explains things, it is all down the various different forms of industrial action taking place by the various unions and cumulates in this position!


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2022 ==

Well, now, hang on a minute. I’m not sure about that!

You provide a very measured and realistic view on the world of national planning!

 

[infobleep]

Once this is over I hope someone or some people do research into how the different companies coped to see why some fair better than others.

Some of this might be due to who went on strike but equally it might also be down to how many people are employed.

I will be getting a lift next week as no trains to Guildford for 5 days.

When you look up Thursday for Haywards Heath to Guildford, it gives you a 5 hour route on the Friday via slough. Actually some more timetables have been added so it is 4 hours via Woking.

When you try to buy a ticket, National Rail Enquiries attempts to send you to SWR but they just error.

HTTP Error 405.0 - Method Not Allowed​

The page you are looking for cannot be displayed because an invalid method (HTTP verb) is being used.​

Most likely causes:​

• The request sent to the Web server used an HTTP verb that is not allowed by the module configured to handle the request.
• A request was sent to the server that contained an invalid HTTP verb.
• The request is for static content and contains an HTTP verb other than GET or HEAD.
• A request was sent to a virtual directory using the HTTP verb POST and the default document is a static file that does not support HTTP verbs other than GET or HEAD.

Things you can try:​

• Verify the list of verbs enabled for the module handler this request was sent to, and ensure that this verb should be allowed for the Web site.
• Check the IIS log file to see which verb is not allowed for the request.
• Create a tracing rule to track failed requests for this HTTP status code. For more information about creating a tracing rule for failed requests, click here.

Detailed Error Information:​

Module	StaticFileModule
Notification	ExecuteRequestHandler
Handler	StaticFile
Error Code	0x80070001

Requested URL	http://www.southwesternrailway.com:80/buy-train-tickets/index.html?openQTT=1
Physical Path	C:\inetpub\wwwroot\SWR.BookingFlow.App\index.html
Logon Method	Anonymous
Logon User	Anonymous

More Information:​

This error means that the request sent to the Web server contained an HTTP verb that is not allowed by the configured module handler for the request.
View more information »

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2023 ==

I shall be putting in a delay relay claim because I missed my train to Garwucj Airport due to the back entrance being closed without any warning.

I checked online and it said trains via Epsom were not running due to a member of the train crew not being available but nothing about Guildford railway station's back entrance being closed. I was on the live Guildford departure board as can be seen in the below image. I can't show the train from 12 as the app crashes when I go back in time. I'm lucky it didn't crash full stop.



I asked a member of staff and it is due to the fact they don't want people buying train tickets for services that didn't exist.

As I pointed out people can do that from the ticket machines at the front of the station. The argument was that people pass through the barrier and there are screens. So I pointed out there are screens at the back and if there is no train people would go to the gate line ad the front.

To which I was told they needed to monitor the numbers. They did admit along the lines of there are different possibilities as to what people would do.

Anyway, they were very polite, as was I and I did say it was t their fault. They were going to raise it with control and did say sometimes it takes a while for the messages to get through. I said but they put up the trains being cancelled and this entrance being closed wasn't mentioned last time either.

I had allowed enough time to get the train if I want via the back entrance but not if I needed to go via the front entrance. Had I known, I would have gotten on quicker with what I was doing.

I already had my train ticket so I just needed to board the train. Now I will be an hour late as the stopping train isn't until 12:28 and it gets in as a train to Garsicj Airport departs, as the connections are poor at Redhill. There is a 13:32 but that departs 4 minutes before the 13:36, which is the 13:00 departure from Guildford.

One final point. On a legal note, I don't know if they are allowed to close the walling route like this as it is denying people their right to pass from one side to the other.

They had to get a court order to divert the walking route across the footbridge overnight. I'm not saying I'll be taking them to court over it but it is a point worth mentioning here all the same.

 

[boiledbeans2]

SWR's timetable on New Year's Eve night was the usual strike timetable, ending at 2200.

Then there were some New Year's Day shuttles from 0000 to 0300.

So interestingly, there was a 2 hour gap with no services.

 

[swaldman]

One final point. On a legal note, I don't know if they are allowed to close the walling route like this as it is denying people their right to pass from one side to the other.

They had to get a court order to divert the walking route across the footbridge overnight. I'm not saying I'll be taking them to court over it but it is a point worth mentioning here all the same.

Yeah, this. It's a long time since I lived round there, but I thought the route over Guildford's footbridge was... either a right of way, or a requirement in some other way. Hence them having arrangements to let people over after ticket barriers went in in the 90s.

 

[infobleep]

Yeah, this. It's a long time since I lived round there, but I thought the route over Guildford's footbridge was... either a right of way, or a requirement in some other way. Hence them having arrangements to let people over after ticket barriers went in in the 90s.

Surrey County Council confirmed it isn't a public right of way, which is why it doesn't show on their maps but there is some kind of legal agreement requiring it to be open.

Whilst I've not seen the legal agreement, I can't believe it allows them to shut the footbridge when they don't want people buying tickets.

Why not just put the ticket machine out of action with a fault, as they have been doing that stations that are closed?

I don't know if they updated the live departure board today but I don't remember it being updated within the hour of my mentioning it.

I see they have enough guards for Monday so the bridge will be open once more

It will next close on Tuesday. Again I doubt if that would be permitted legally but as I've not seen the agreement, I can't be certain.

 

[Goldfish62]

SWR's timetable on New Year's Eve night was the usual strike timetable, ending at 2200.

Then there were some New Year's Day shuttles from 0000 to 0300.

So interestingly, there was a 2 hour gap with no services.

It seems that Guildford via Epsom paid for those extra services by having every single New Year's Day service cancelled. The Reading line was pretty decimated as well.

 

[philosopher]

This may have been explained before, but can anyone explain why SWR and Chiltern have been so impacted by the RMT overtime ban compared to other operators. Both these operators over the last few weeks have been running half or less of their services, but most other operators have been running a near normal service when there is not a strike.

 

[Goldfish62]

This may have been explained before, but can anyone explain why SWR and Chiltern have been so impacted by the RMT overtime ban compared to other operators. Both these operators over the last few weeks have been running half or less of their services, but most other operators have been running a near normal service when there is not a strike.

At least Chiltern bothered to procure replacement bus services for parts of its network.

 

[infobleep]

It seems that Guildford via Epsom paid for those extra services by having every single New Year's Day service cancelled. The Reading line was pretty decimated as well.

Unlike Govia Thameslink Railway though, they provided replacement buses. So the disruption noticed stated yesterday.

Now if buses were provided, why could they not have kept the back entrance open. It is open on Sundays when rail replacement buses run and the back entrance is not manned until the end of service.

There were multiple people at the front gate line and one of them surely could have been at the back gate line. I appreciate it might be boring being on your own but it happens regularly so whilst I am prepared to give SWR some leeway at times, on this issue I think they are wrong.

I haven't yet complained but I suppose I should. Officially I wasn't an hour late, it was in the 30-59 minutes. It's more the lack of information that I object too. It's as if they don't want people to know.

 

[stssts1985]

On strike days, does anyone know why 4 trains an hour are running via Hounslow and Chiswick loop? This seems an unusual line to keep full (better than usual?) service running, when the line via Richmond has none. Its great to see but seems an unusual line to choose? I would have thought this loop would be "non principle"

 

[deepeetw]

On strike days, does anyone know why 4 trains an hour are running via Hounslow and Chiswick loop? This seems an unusual line to keep full (better than usual?) service running, when the line via Richmond has none. Its great to see but seems an unusual line to choose? I would have thought this loop would be "non principle"

Think it’s something to do with the Hounslow route still being run from Feltham box rather than Basingstoke. One less panel to staff.

 

[Goldfish62]

Think it’s something to do with the Hounslow route still being run from Feltham box rather than Basingstoke. One less panel to staff.

Yes, Waterloo to Windsor is covered by Wimbledon - Feltham. Going via Richmond to say Ascot or Bracknell would be Wimbledon - Basingstoke - Feltham - Basingstoke.

Having said that even if the NR dispute is settled I have no confidence in SWR opening up further parts of the network on TOC strike days.

 

[30907]

Think it’s something to do with the Hounslow route still being run from Feltham box rather than Basingstoke. One less panel to staff.

And 2 fewer LCs that way, which reduces workload.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I've noticed on RTT that for the last few days, the Woking stoppers and Basingstoke semi-fasts are now 8-car 450s. Earlier in the strikes, they both used to be 12-car 450s.

I haven't tried travelling during strike days so I don't know how busy the trains are.

 

[FenMan]

I've noticed on RTT that for the last few days, the Woking stoppers and Basingstoke semi-fasts are now 8-car 450s. Earlier in the strikes, they both used to be 12-car 450s.

I haven't tried travelling during strike days so I don't know how busy the trains are.

Given the dictat (from DaFT?) that service finishes by 6:30pm (at the destination) then no-one in Home Counties commuter-land will be travelling in either direction, unless they enjoy a high degree of risk.

 

[Watershed]

Given the dictat (from DaFT?) that service finishes by 6:30pm (at the destination) then no-one in Home Counties commuter-land will be travelling in either direction, unless they enjoy a high degree of risk.

That's a Network Rail limitation and is a function of there only being one shift of contingency signallers.

 

[FenMan]

That's a Network Rail limitation and is a function of there only being one shift of contingency signallers.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Don't know where to post this, but today, there's a 450 on Guildford via Epsom.

Realtime Trains | 2132 London Waterloo to Guildford | 08/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 2132 departure from London Waterloo to Guildford on 08/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Maybe it's used to get the train back in the right position after the strikes?

 

[Lifelong]

Yes, Waterloo to Windsor is covered by Wimbledon - Feltham. Going via Richmond to say Ascot or Bracknell would be Wimbledon - Basingstoke - Feltham - Basingstoke.

Having said that even if the NR dispute is settled I have no confidence in SWR opening up further parts of the network on TOC strike days.

Out of interest, what was the rationale for no Guildford-Waterloo services running via Cobham and twice an hour in the reduced service days via Epsom? Was trying to work out why this was in terms of signalling etc?

 

[swr444]

Out of interest, what was the rationale for no Guildford-Waterloo services running via Cobham and twice an hour in the reduced service days via Epsom? Was trying to work out why this was in terms of signalling etc?

Probably because the epsom line panel is shared with SWR and southern at Wimbledon signal box, so it’s easier to manage and provide a service on two TOCs

 

[infobleep]

Probably because the epsom line panel is shared with SWR and southern at Wimbledon signal box, so it’s easier to manage and provide a service on two TOCs

But the signallers were not on strike and where happy to do overtime.

 

[swr444]

But the signallers were not on strike and where happy to do overtime.

Apparently they were not doing overtime

 

[Goldfish62]

Apparently they were not doing overtime

Ah, so was this then the real reason that SWR was particularly badly affected during the "non-strike" period? Namely that NR signallers in the SWR operating area only were undertaking an unofficial overtime ban as well as the official one by the RMT on SWR?

 

[infobleep]

Ah, so was this then the real reason that SWR was particularly badly affected during the "non-strike" period? Namely that NR signallers in the SWR operating area only were undertaking an unofficial overtime ban as well as the official one by the RMT on SWR?

There is not such thing as an unofficial overtime ban. Staff are free to choose to work overtime.

I don't know if you are employed but if you are, can your company force you to do overtime?

The RMT said to staff who work for TOCs that they should not agree to do overtime.

They had said this to signallers but then said actually do work overtime if you wish.

So on the days when there was no strike between Christmas and the new year, it was just RMT staff who were instructed not to do overtime. Maybe advised is a better word than instructed.

Of course, if anyone else decides during that time they didn't want to do some other time, maybe they had an important event to attend outside of work, they could.

 

[Goldfish62]

There is not such thing as an unofficial overtime ban. Staff are free to choose to work overtime.

I don't know if you are employed but if you are, can your company force you to do overtime?

The RMT said to staff who work for TOCs that they should not agree to do overtime.

They had said this to signallers but then said actually do work overtime if you wish.

So on the days when there was no strike between Christmas and the new year, it was just RMT staff who were instructed not to do overtime. Maybe advised is a better word than instructed.

Of course, if anyone else decides during that time they didn't want to do some other time, maybe they had an important event to attend outside of work, they could.

Perhaps you haven't read the last few comments in this thread so I'll summarise as you've maybe got the wrong end of the stick:
Post #264: why no service via Cobham?
Post #267: apparently the signallers weren't doing overtime.

In assuming that signallers would normally do some amount of overtime (my railway friends certainly like to do a bit of overtime when it's up for grabs) I deduced that something was going on for no signallers at Wimbledon to be doing any overtime, which would go some way to explaining SWR's appalling planned service levels over the period.

Hope that makes things clearer.