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SWR: Speculative service pattern ideas

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nw1

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I've searched and I don't think this topic has come up before on this forum, so I was wondering how you might change the SWR (pre-Covid) pattern if given the chance?

I have some ideas, which also do require some tweaks of other operators' services. These are focused on long-distance, not suburban.

Starting with the main line to Bournemouth. On balance I would keep the xx35 / xx05 pattern with the same stops between Waterloo and Bournemouth, but probably only extend one tph to Weymouth (the xx35 as that's slightly faster) except during the weekday peak and the summer season, as I would be surprised if there is a need for 2tph off-peak in the off-season. The xx05 would continue just to Wareham at other times, calling all stations beyond Bournemouth. The xx35 would skip Branksome and Parkstone.

I would re-time the Brockenhurst to Poole stopper to give a more even-interval service from places like New Milton, Christchurch and Pokesdown which has featured bunching of services in the up direction. To simplify things, the service would run as a Brockenhurst-Poole shuttle, which removes constraints arising from service patterns up-line. The down service is fairly sensibly timed. The up service is poorly timed (these stations have services which arrived at xx33 and xx45 at Brockenhurst). So I'd retime it to arrive Brockenhurst around xx10, connecting nicely into the xx15 fast to London, and also conveniently timed to turn round and form the next down stopper. This would mean making the XC leave Bournemouth a little earlier, with a slightly longer wait at Southampton.

Southampton to Brockenhurst would become an hourly shuttle, again to reduce constraints. A slot at around xx00 or so out of Southampton and xx30 return would give good connections into London services and allow the service to run as a one-unit shuttle. If 450s were used for this and the Brockenhurst-Poole shuttle, they could share the northmost platform (can never remember if this is 1 or 4). ALL services would call at Beaulieu Road!

Next thing I'd do is tackle the poor provision at Swaythling and St Denys. The former is just hourly; being within a city and close to university accommodation, I'd say it deserves 2tph. The latter has suffered from extreme bunching for many years with the two tph to and from Central timed at almost the same time in the hour. Furthermore the local service has poor connections at Parkway into Waterloo services.

At times of engineering work, they appear to use an xx18 path out of Southampton Central for the local stopper. This gives a better spread of services to Eastleigh (the semi-fast leaving at xx55) and also gives a nice connection into the xx30 to Waterloo at Parkway. So I'd employ this slot in the hour, rather than the poor xx35 slot. The service would terminate at Romsey as now but would not run through from Salisbury, the Southampton-Salisbury service being fully provided by GWR with the Trans Wilts taking up Dunbridge and Dean.

Furthermore the xx55 Southampton-Waterloo semi-fast and v.v would call at St Denys and Swaythling throughout the day, giving the latter a 2tph service, departing perhaps 3 mins earlier from Southampton and arriving 3 minutes later. It would no longer match up with the Brockenhurst-Southampton shuttle (see above) so would become a separate working. It could interwork, perhaps, with the new Southampton-Portsmouth semi-fast described below, the timings would be about right.

Contentiously, Southern trains could be reduced to 1tph, running to Gatwick (and Victoria) via Hove and hoovering up both the Brighton and Gatwick markets. Would become limited stop: Swanwick, Fareham, Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing, Shoreham, Hove and Haywards Heath only before Gatwick, mirroring the service of the 90s and restoring fast services along Coastway West - which currently do not exist apart from occasional GWR services. Perhaps these could be 8-car rather than 4, particularly at peak times. Then, with a less congested Southampton-Fareham corridor, a semi-fast Southampton to Portsmouth could be introduced leaving around xx25, giving reasonably good intervals with both the GWR fast and the stopper, calling only at St Denys, Woolston, Netley, Swanwick, Fareham, Cosham, Fratton, PSS, PH.

The other routes I think I'm fairly happy with the service pattern, although as I live in Southampton I am more aware of the shortcomings of the service in this area than other areas. Perhaps one change I would make is more of an 00, 10, 30, 40 service pattern on the Portsmouth Direct if that was at all possible, allowing the slower Portsmouth service to proceed to Portsmouth without being looped at Haslemere, improving services for Liphook, Liss and Rowlands Castle.
 
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swt_passenger

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This was done to death regarding the SWML only a few months ago…

Also, another recent speculation thread addressed the Fareham to Southampton line:

lastly, doesnt the thread about the SWR December 22 consultation include many alternative ideas:
 
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nw1

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This was done to death regarding the SWML only a few months ago…

Also, another recent speculation thread addressed the Fareham to Southampton line:

lastly, doesnt the thread about the SWR December 22 consultation include many alternative ideas:

Sorry, yes I was aware that SWR service patterns had come up in various recent threads but thought it might be an idea to have a thread about speculative patterns unrelated to the Dec 22 proposals.

However I have to admit I completely missed the first link there - apologies. Didn't use the right search terms when trying to find previous threads.
 

PTR 444

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I've searched and I don't think this topic has come up before on this forum, so I was wondering how you might change the SWR (pre-Covid) pattern if given the chance?

I have some ideas, which also do require some tweaks of other operators' services. These are focused on long-distance, not suburban.

Starting with the main line to Bournemouth. On balance I would keep the xx35 / xx05 pattern with the same stops between Waterloo and Bournemouth, but probably only extend one tph to Weymouth (the xx35 as that's slightly faster) except during the weekday peak and the summer season, as I would be surprised if there is a need for 2tph off-peak in the off-season. The xx05 would continue just to Wareham at other times, calling all stations beyond Bournemouth. The xx35 would skip Branksome and Parkstone.
I agree with keeping the 30 minute interval Bournemouth line frequency, although not so sure about terminating at Wareham. I have suggested it in the past but as there are no sidings there, it would require a pretty tight turnaround time. Not ideal for a train that’s travelled two hours from London.
I would re-time the Brockenhurst to Poole stopper to give a more even-interval service from places like New Milton, Christchurch and Pokesdown which has featured bunching of services in the up direction. To simplify things, the service would run as a Brockenhurst-Poole shuttle, which removes constraints arising from service patterns up-line. The down service is fairly sensibly timed. The up service is poorly timed (these stations have services which arrived at xx33 and xx45 at Brockenhurst). So I'd retime it to arrive Brockenhurst around xx10, connecting nicely into the xx15 fast to London, and also conveniently timed to turn round and form the next down stopper. This would mean making the XC leave Bournemouth a little earlier, with a slightly longer wait at Southampton.

Southampton to Brockenhurst would become an hourly shuttle, again to reduce constraints. A slot at around xx00 or so out of Southampton and xx30 return would give good connections into London services and allow the service to run as a one-unit shuttle. If 450s were used for this and the Brockenhurst-Poole shuttle, they could share the northmost platform (can never remember if this is 1 or 4). ALL services would call at Beaulieu Road!
If the above two services are timetabled to meet head-on at Brockenhurst, you might as well run them as a one through Southampton - Bournemouth service. I think this is happening anyway with the 2022 timetable consultation.
Next thing I'd do is tackle the poor provision at Swaythling and St Denys. The former is just hourly; being within a city and close to university accommodation, I'd say it deserves 2tph. The latter has suffered from extreme bunching for many years with the two tph to and from Central timed at almost the same time in the hour. Furthermore the local service has poor connections at Parkway into Waterloo services.
Another suggestion which is being proposed within the consultation with the Waterloo - Southampton semi-fast calling there, although this would only be during the peaks.
At times of engineering work, they appear to use an xx18 path out of Southampton Central for the local stopper. This gives a better spread of services to Eastleigh (the semi-fast leaving at xx55) and also gives a nice connection into the xx30 to Waterloo at Parkway. So I'd employ this slot in the hour, rather than the poor xx35 slot. The service would terminate at Romsey as now but would not run through from Salisbury,
Would this revised service begin at Soton Central or somewhere further back (eg. Totton)
the Southampton-Salisbury service being fully provided by GWR with the Trans Wilts taking up Dunbridge and Dean.
I presume this is the often mooted TransWilts service which runs through to Swindon. If so, do you propose to serve Millbrook and Redbridge on this?
Furthermore the xx55 Southampton-Waterloo semi-fast and v.v would call at St Denys and Swaythling throughout the day, giving the latter a 2tph service, departing perhaps 3 mins earlier from Southampton and arriving 3 minutes later. It would no longer match up with the Brockenhurst-Southampton shuttle (see above) so would become a separate working. It could interwork, perhaps, with the new Southampton-Portsmouth semi-fast described below, the timings would be about right.
Again, being catered for by the 2022 SWR consultation.
Contentiously, Southern trains could be reduced to 1tph, running to Gatwick (and Victoria) via Hove and hoovering up both the Brighton and Gatwick markets. Would become limited stop: Swanwick, Fareham, Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing, Shoreham, Hove and Haywards Heath only before Gatwick, mirroring the service of the 90s and restoring fast services along Coastway West - which currently do not exist apart from occasional GWR services. Perhaps these could be 8-car rather than 4, particularly at peak times. Then, with a less congested Southampton-Fareham corridor, a semi-fast Southampton to Portsmouth could be introduced leaving around xx25, giving reasonably good intervals with both the GWR fast and the stopper, calling only at St Denys, Woolston, Netley, Swanwick, Fareham, Cosham, Fratton, PSS, PH.
One thing that isn’t really pointed out is that if West Coastway goes down from 2tph to 1tph, Southampton loses half its services to Havant and Chichester. Alas, a fifth train per hour can be added to the Netley line without having to remove any of the existing ones, as has been discussed on another thread.
The other routes I think I'm fairly happy with the service pattern, although as I live in Southampton I am more aware of the shortcomings of the service in this area than other areas. Perhaps one change I would make is more of an 00, 10, 30, 40 service pattern on the Portsmouth Direct if that was at all possible, allowing the slower Portsmouth service to proceed to Portsmouth without being looped at Haslemere, improving services for Liphook, Liss and Rowlands Castle.
I don’t know as much about the Pompey direct line, although judging by the existing pattern it would be quite difficult to avoid looping at Haslemere without having to skip minor stations to make up time.
 

nw1

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I agree with keeping the 30 minute interval Bournemouth line frequency, although not so sure about terminating at Wareham. I have suggested it in the past but as there are no sidings there, it would require a pretty tight turnaround time. Not ideal for a train that’s travelled two hours from London.
Hadn't looked at the timings in detail there I have to admit. Perhaps the local could terminate at Wareham? But happy to keep the 2tph to Weymouth to be honest - was just suggesting a reduction to 1tph in the 'off season' to match demand, but if it's more trouble than it's worth, just keep the existing service.
If the above two services are timetabled to meet head-on at Brockenhurst, you might as well run them as a one through Southampton - Bournemouth service. I think this is happening anyway with the 2022 timetable consultation.
Though it would be more difficult as if both worked through, they'd need to occupy 2 platforms, not one. Run both as shuttles and they can share the same platform.
Another suggestion which is being proposed within the consultation with the Waterloo - Southampton semi-fast calling there, although this would only be during the peaks.
Though if it's done in the peaks, one may as well serve Swaythling and St Denys all day. TBH I need to send in some input to the consultation!
Would this revised service begin at Soton Central or somewhere further back (eg. Totton)

I presume this is the often mooted TransWilts service which runs through to Swindon. If so, do you propose to serve Millbrook and Redbridge on this?
Was thinking of Central (the existing Romsey via Chandlers Ford this is referring to). If time allows the Brockenhurst-Southampton shuttle could take up the Millbrook and Redbridge stops. If not, the Trans Wilts could take them up. The aim is to try and split the service at Central to avoid 'tying' Swaythling and St Denys times to the Southampton-Romsey-Salisbury direct service. Failing the existence of the Trans Wilts, a Southampton-Salisbury shuttle could run. Or, if Hythe ever opens, run a through Hythe to Romsey via Eastleigh.
One thing that isn’t really pointed out is that if West Coastway goes down from 2tph to 1tph, Southampton loses half its services to Havant and Chichester. Alas, a fifth train per hour can be added to the Netley line without having to remove any of the existing ones, as has been discussed on another thread.
Yeah that's a good point re Havant links. If the extra train can be fitted in regardless, then little point in reducing one of the Southern services, though would be nice to restore faster services along the coast towards Brighton.
I don’t know as much about the Pompey direct line, although judging by the existing pattern it would be quite difficult to avoid looping at Haslemere without having to skip minor stations to make up time.
They seem to manage it in the up direction with trains leaving Havant xx34 (fast) and xx40 (slow) IIRC, which presumably implies they could do it in the down direction. Need to study the Direct timetable in more detail to work out why looping is necessary in the down direction but not the up.
 

PTR 444

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I’m tempted to suggest some of my many “fantasy SWR” ideas here, although most of these have already been posted in at least two of the other threads on this subject. One more realistic suggestion I would make however is this, and it is particularly important if the 2022 consultation timetable goes ahead, as I will explain later.

Option A: Swap the calls at minor stations west of Bournemouth so Branksome and Parkstone are moved from the xx35 to xx05 ex Waterloo, and vice versa for Holton Heath, Wool, Moreton and Upwey.

Option B: Move the calls at New Milton, Christchurch and Pokesdown from the xx05 to the xx35.

The obvious benefit to either of these options is that you end up with an almost clear run between Southampton and Poole, and could potentially cut the London - Poole journey time to under 2 hours if this fast pattern is put into the Woking service. Even so, a faster journey time is not the primary reason for implementing this. It is to ensure that New Milton retains through coaches to Branksome and Parkstone once the stopper is cut back from Poole to Bournemouth.

Because with the current proposal of splitting the xx05 into Poole and Weymouth portions, a phenomenon has arisen that due to 10-car trains being proposed and platforms at New Milton only being able to take the front 5 cars, it will become impossible to take a one seat journey from there to Branksome and Parkstone. While this will inconvenience very few and those that do make the journey can simply walk through the gangway, it could stir up problems for wheelchair users who may have issues with the gangway width, particularly relevant as there’s currently a discussion on the main forum regarding a disabled passenger being inconvenienced due to short platforms. The other issue is how to announce to the public that a walk through the carriage is required upon boarding at New Milton:

“For Branksome and Parkstone, you must follow announcements on train”

“For Branksome and Parkstone, you must board coach 5 and walk to coach 6”

“You can only board the front 5 coaches of this train, but only the rear 5 call at Branksome and Parkstone, so if you want those stations you must walk through the gangway”


This is why I think it’s much better to have the fast Southampton - Bournemouth train split at the latter station, rather than the one which calls at New Milton for this crucial reason. I would suggest that this potential issue is raised in the consultation if somebody hasn’t done so already.
 

HamworthyGoods

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I’m tempted to suggest some of my many “fantasy SWR” ideas here, although most of these have already been posted in at least two of the other threads on this subject. One more realistic suggestion I would make however is this, and it is particularly important if the 2022 consultation timetable goes ahead, as I will explain later.

Option A: Swap the calls at minor stations west of Bournemouth so Branksome and Parkstone are moved from the xx35 to xx05 ex Waterloo, and vice versa for Holton Heath, Wool, Moreton and Upwey.

Option B: Move the calls at New Milton, Christchurch and Pokesdown from the xx05 to the xx35.

The obvious benefit to either of these options is that you end up with an almost clear run between Southampton and Poole, and could potentially cut the London - Poole journey time to under 2 hours if this fast pattern is put into the Woking service. Even so, a faster journey time is not the primary reason for implementing this. It is to ensure that New Milton retains through coaches to Branksome and Parkstone once the stopper is cut back from Poole to Bournemouth.

Because with the current proposal of splitting the xx05 into Poole and Weymouth portions, a phenomenon has arisen that due to 10-car trains being proposed and platforms at New Milton only being able to take the front 5 cars, it will become impossible to take a one seat journey from there to Branksome and Parkstone. While this will inconvenience very few and those that do make the journey can simply walk through the gangway, it could stir up problems for wheelchair users who may have issues with the gangway width, particularly relevant as there’s currently a discussion on the main forum regarding a disabled passenger being inconvenienced due to short platforms. The other issue is how to announce to the public that a walk through the carriage is required upon boarding at New Milton:

“For Branksome and Parkstone, you must follow announcements on train”

“For Branksome and Parkstone, you must board coach 5 and walk to coach 6”

“You can only board the front 5 coaches of this train, but only the rear 5 call at Branksome and Parkstone, so if you want those stations you must walk through the gangway”


This is why I think it’s much better to have the fast Southampton - Bournemouth train split at the latter station, rather than the one which calls at New Milton for this crucial reason. I would suggest that this potential issue is raised in the consultation if somebody hasn’t done so already.

This situation already happens, in the up direction; the service which calls at New Milton is 10 cars, any passengers from anywhere west of Bournemouth have to move after the attachment there we don’t hear lots of complaints about not being able to get from Weymouth, Dorchester, Poole etc to New Milton without having to move coach which I suspect are far greater flows than New Milton to Parkstone!

I really think this is a non issue as the situation already exists affecting New Milton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

They seem to manage it in the up direction with trains leaving Havant xx34 (fast) and xx40 (slow) IIRC, which presumably implies they could do it in the down direction. Need to study the Direct timetable in more detail to work out why looping is necessary in the down direction but not the up.

It is managed in the up direction as the two services leave Portsmouth within 4 minutes of each other and then are even spaced 15 minutes apart at Guildford. To achieve the same in the down direction the two services would have to leave Waterloo at 5/25 intervals which gives a very poor spacing for London to Guildford.
 

nw1

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It is managed in the up direction as the two services leave Portsmouth within 4 minutes of each other and then are even spaced 15 minutes apart at Guildford. To achieve the same in the down direction the two services would have to leave Waterloo at 5/25 intervals which gives a very poor spacing for London to Guildford.

Though it could presumably be the reverse. They could leave Waterloo at an even 15 minute interval and by Havant the fast is 6 minutes behind the slow, and by Fratton 4 minutes behind. I'm guessing Southern services are the constraint forcing the looping pattern, with a conflict southbound as the Direct crosses Coastway which is not there northbound.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Though it could presumably be the reverse. They could leave Waterloo at an even 15 minute interval and by Havant the fast is 6 minutes behind the slow, and by Fratton 4 minutes behind. I'm guessing Southern services are the constraint forcing the looping pattern, with a conflict southbound as the Direct crosses Coastway which is not there northbound.

No because up road they are 15 minutes apart from Guildford but then the slow calls at Worplesdon and Clapham additionally compared to the fast meaning they arrive at Waterloo at 10/20.

So down road leave at 15 minute intervals the stopper is already only 10 in front of the fast by Guildford with the 2 extra calls, meaning 5 in front by Haslemere etc.

To keep the stopper ahead all the way down you couldn’t leave Waterloo on a 15 minute pattern.
 

nw1

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No because up road they are 15 minutes apart from Guildford but then the slow calls at Worplesdon and Clapham additionally compared to the fast meaning they arrive at Waterloo at 10/20.

So down road leave at 15 minute intervals the stopper is already only 10 in front of the fast by Guildford with the 2 extra calls, meaning 5 in front by Haslemere etc.

To keep the stopper ahead all the way down you couldn’t leave Waterloo on a 15 minute pattern.

OK thanks for that, makes sense - I think I assumed the ups arrived Waterloo at even-interval 15 mins. I did suggest a 10-20 pattern up-thread - but recognise that this disrupts the clockface so might be hard to achieve in practice.

One could always move the Clapham calls to the fast services which might also help, as Clapham is an important-enough station to justify a stop on a fast.
 

Alex365Dash

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One could always move the Clapham calls to the fast services which might also help, as Clapham is an important-enough station to justify a stop on a fast.
The suggestion of stopping a fast Portsmouth service at Clapham Junction has already been discussed in this thread. But in short, doing so with the current timetable isn’t really possible, since the Alton service behind it is already too close to allow the Portsmouth service to stop. And before anyone suggests retiming the Alton service…
The Alton train [which prevents the fast Portsmouth from stopping at Clapham] is fixed by its Waterloo arrival time of xx29 where it crosses into a low numbered platform ahead of the xx30 Portsmouth departure.

This idea, whilst I can see your rationale potentially soon though lands you with a replatforming Waterloo exercise…
 
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