SWR siding space

[Peter Sarf]

I have decided that talking about siding space on SWR is getting too off topic for any particular class of EMU but also covers all of them !.

They're all short roads, so making good use of otherwise unused sidings (in theory).

Correct, but what else can they do? That's a consequence of the SW network stabling being designed (historically) for multiples of 4, 8 and 12 car.

There are a good few, but most worrying (as I see it) is Wimbledon depot Top Yard, that part which is visible to District line passengers between Wimbledon and Wimbledon Park stations. As I have said time and time before, IF the pre covid timetable or something very similar is re introduced, that part of Wimbledon depot is lacking about eight sidings to accommodate 10 car 701 to provide daily service trains. The sidings in question were good for 8 car (455) or 5 car 701, and that is where the depot Fleet and Planning teems will need to come up with some ingenious solutions both for morning starts and evening finishes.

It must be eye watering. I already (think I) understand the problem and that 701/5s are part of the solution. But.....

Thinking about 4/8/12 car sidings again....

Effectively, if thinking about 701/5s, an eight car road is getting 3 cars worth wasted - 3/8ths wasted. That is potentially 90 coaches worth for the whole 701/5 fleet. Probably less as I would hope many pairs of 701/5s can be accommodated - how many ?.
It reduces places for 4car units (458/4s).

Of course then sticking a 701/0 or 2x701/5 in a siding that can take 12 cars is wasting 2 cars worth of space.

If a number of 12 car roads are getting filled with 10cars worth of 701/0s during the day (inter peak) then re-introducing 12car over 8car on long distance services might be thwarted if 12 car roads are cluttered with 701/0s. How true ?.

I suppose it is a matter of how many sidings were best suited to 4car or 8car 458 formations ?.
And before that 455s.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

It must be eye watering

It was (for me and others of my time), and likely so for new young entrants to Planning, of which there are many I was reliably informed recently, most of whom will not understand the history of stabling at places such as Clapham Yard and Wimbledon depot. Other smaller locations are relatively easy to get one's head around, ie: one or two sidings of xx length etc.

But Clapham and Wimbledon both have complex siding layouts, with (Clapham in particular) no specific pattern to road lengths matching any specific arrival or departure route. Both depots have to be planned by individual train formation and departure/arrival time, and stabling road, a bit like moving chess pieces on a board, if the overall is to work day in day out. That includes understanding (by personal visits if needs be by the Planners) how the shunt panels work in relation to stabling trains. Clapham Yard has one, Wimbledon depot, two.

A mutual understanding between depot staff and planners will work wonders for any train provision, provided those atop take good advice when given.

 

[Dstock7080]

We were told earlier of planning for 10 additional roads at Feltham:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...progress-updates.148717/page-518#post-7556999

 

[Peter Sarf]

It was (for me and others of my time), and likely so for new young entrants to Planning, of which there are many I was reliably informed recently, most of whom will not understand the history of stabling at places such as Clapham Yard and Wimbledon depot. Other smaller locations are relatively easy to get one's head around, ie: one or two sidings of xx length etc.

But Clapham and Wimbledon both have complex siding layouts, with (Clapham in particular) no specific pattern to road lengths matching any specific arrival or departure route. Both depots have to be planned by individual train formation and departure/arrival time, and stabling road, a bit like moving chess pieces on a board, if the overall is to work day in day out. That includes understanding (by personal visits if needs be by the Planners) how the shunt panels work in relation to stabling trains. Clapham Yard has one, Wimbledon depot, two.

A mutual understanding between depot staff and planners will work wonders for any train provision, provided those atop take good advice when given.

The last bit is risky. Those atop (and beyond) will be keen to try new ideas brought from outside !.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

We were told earlier of planning for 10 additional roads at Feltham:

All fine and dandy for Windsor side services, but utterly useless for main suburban services starting from Wimbledon depot/Wimbledon station every weekday morning from 0450 to 0600 ish heading West to the likes of Hampton Court, Chessy, Sheppy etc.
How many times do I have to try to explain this!!!!!!!

Wimbledon depot does NOT have the required number of stabling sidings to provide the said services, if the the timetable reverts to pre covid levels. They are short of approx eight 10 car roads, if ALL such starting services are required to be 10 car!

Train services can only be resourced from depots that are very close to the start point of the said services. In the small hours there are NR related possessions (white period) which restricts empty train movements to within the core timetable period, in addition to driver diagram restrictions various.

This scenario was breached (slightly) in the SWT 10 car plan, as the existing pathways to provide service everyday had come to a crunch, and so additional empty moves had to run from Wimbledon depot to Staines via Chertsey at a time the then MD wanted to plain line the problematic diamond crossing at Weybridge. He saw sense after realising the implications of doing away with same.

Am fed up with trying to get this across now. It would appear that many who read my posts (with a few exceptions) are blanking/cancelling my comments, and as such I won't be commenting any further.

Sorry Peter Sarf, you being one who obviously has a thirst for knowledge on such matters, but I have more private matters to deal with rather than answering repetitive questions on here!

All the best.
BJ74

 

[Farnborough]

Is there a list of the depots/sidings, and their capacities?

 

[Peter Sarf]

All fine and dandy for Windsor side services, but utterly useless for main suburban services starting from Wimbledon depot/Wimbledon station every weekday morning from 0450 to 0600 ish heading West to the likes of Hampton Court, Chessy, Sheppy etc.
How many times do I have to try to explain this!!!!!!!

Wimbledon depot does NOT have the required number of stabling sidings to provide the said services, if the the timetable reverts to pre covid levels. They are short of approx eight 10 car roads, if ALL such starting services are required to be 10 car!

Train services can only be resourced from depots that are very close to the start point of the said services. In the small hours there are NR related possessions (white period) which restricts empty train movements to within the core timetable period, in addition to driver diagram restrictions various.

This scenario was breached (slightly) in the SWT 10 car plan, as the existing pathways to provide service everyday had come to a crunch, and so additional empty moves had to run from Wimbledon depot to Staines via Chertsey at a time the then MD wanted to plain line the problematic diamond crossing at Weybridge. He saw sense after realising the implications of doing away with same.

Am fed up with trying to get this across now. It would appear that many who read my posts (with a few exceptions) are blanking/cancelling my comments, and as such I won't be commenting any further.

Sorry Peter Sarf, you being one who obviously has a thirst for knowledge on such matters, but I have more private matters to deal with rather than answering repetitive questions on here!

All the best.
BJ74

Well said / explained. I hope you keep interested when you have the energy. In the meantime all the best.

---

I have been using google maps satellite view to see the lie of the land so to speak.

At Clapham yard I saw a shortish siding (looks like for engineers) on the NW side of the vee, It looks like it could be made ten car.

I am assuming the sidings alongside the carriage shed and the carriage shed are all ten car JUST ?.

What i notice is sidings over on the Windsor side that look like 15 car length !. So a 701/5 and a 701/0 could fit. BUT its a lot of manoeuvres to get the 701/5s coupled at start of day. Also uncoupled at end of day. So impractical really.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

I am not sure how to past a picture of it BUt also not sure on copyright ?.

Wimbledon depot has a 12 (?) sub 10car sidings vivible from the District line. Parallel to the carriage shed. To make them longer would require demolishing the industrial/non-residential buildings towards Durnsford Road. How feasible is that... I can see £££s and local objections in a predominantly residential area.

Overall for the mainline side it looks like everything is as stretched as it can be without major expenditure and planning approvals.