SWR Shorter Ticket

[Orion24]

I was stopped by a revenue collections officer at the the station having purchased a shorter train ticket and they have now reached out to me regarding a number of previous tickets purchased with a similar configuration. They can easily prove I didn't get on at my ticketed start as there are barriers at these stations and so I don't think there is much of a case to be made to dispute these.

In the email they have reached out to request more information from me relating to the journey on the day I was stopped and previous similar journeys. Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed? I want to just bring it to a close and settle something and hold my hands up but want to minimise the long term impacts as I would really rather not end up with a record as it could impact visa opportunities later in life?

Any advice possible would be greatly appreciated. I am going to draft a response and will post in here for feedback.

Thanks in advance,

 

[WesternLancer]

I was stopped by a revenue collections officer at the the station having purchased a shorter train ticket and they have now reached out to me regarding a number of previous tickets purchased with a similar configuration. They can easily prove I didn't get on at my ticketed start as there are barriers at these stations and so I don't think there is much of a case to be made to dispute these.

In the email they have reached out to request more information from me relating to the journey on the day I was stopped and previous similar journeys. Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed? I want to just bring it to a close and settle something and hold my hands up but want to minimise the long term impacts as I would really rather not end up with a record as it could impact visa opportunities later in life?

Any advice possible would be greatly appreciated. I am going to draft a response and will post in here for feedback.

Thanks in advance,

Welcome - have a look at some other threads involving SWR (try the search function on the forum) to get an idea of what will happen and how you should respond, esp with regard to how you answer the bit about other previous journeys - they can check all your on line purchasing from wherever you bought tickets so bear that in mind

It would probably help people if you can post a copy of the communication they have sent you with your personal details / their ref numbers not showing, so people can see exactly what they are asking of you and the wording they use.

 

[Orion24]

Welcome - have a look at some other threads involving SWR (try the search function on the forum) to get an idea of what will happen and how you should respond, esp with regard to how you answer the bit about other previous journeys - they can check all your on line purchasing from wherever you bought tickets so bear that in mind

It would probably help people if you can post a copy of the communication they have sent you with your personal details / their ref numbers not showing, so people can see exactly what they are asking of you and the wording they use.

Hey WL,

thanks for your fast reponse. I've been reading through a few and I'm just pulling together a response email based of another similar case which i'll post for feedback shortly. I've included the communciations from SWR below :


An Officer from South Western Railway spoke to you on Wednesday 31st July 2024 at London Waterloo railway station regarding your rail travel on that day. Further information is required from you to ensure that South Western Railway have all the facts and information at hand before coming to a decision regarding your case.

On Wednesday 31st July 2024 you were asked to show a valid rail ticket but you were unable to do this. The ticket you showed was only from Vauxhall to London Waterloo and you admitted to travelling from Esher. Please explain your journey on this day.

Our records show that from Thursday 21st March 2024 similar tickets were purchased and used for various journeys between Vauxhall, Clapham Junction and London Waterloo which were only ever scanned in or out at one end of the journey. Note that London Waterloo, Clapham Junction and Vauxhall stations have automatic ticket barriers which record the ticket scans.

Please explain the journeys that you have made since 21st March 2024

If you fail to respond, this matter may proceed to Court and formal proceedings may follow.

If the matter were to proceed to Court, ticket scan data and CCTV may be produced as evidence.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hey WL,

thanks for your fast reponse. I've been reading through a few and I'm just pulling together a response email based of another similar case which i'll post for feedback shortly. I've included the communciations from SWR below :


An Officer from South Western Railway spoke to you on Wednesday 31st July 2024 at London Waterloo railway station regarding your rail travel on that day. Further information is required from you to ensure that South Western Railway have all the facts and information at hand before coming to a decision regarding your case.

On Wednesday 31st July 2024 you were asked to show a valid rail ticket but you were unable to do this. The ticket you showed was only from Vauxhall to London Waterloo and you admitted to travelling from Esher. Please explain your journey on this day.

Our records show that from Thursday 21st March 2024 similar tickets were purchased and used for various journeys between Vauxhall, Clapham Junction and London Waterloo which were only ever scanned in or out at one end of the journey. Note that London Waterloo, Clapham Junction and Vauxhall stations have automatic ticket barriers which record the ticket scans.

Please explain the journeys that you have made since 21st March 2024

If you fail to respond, this matter may proceed to Court and formal proceedings may follow.

If the matter were to proceed to Court, ticket scan data and CCTV may be produced as evidence.

OK - so they have investigated your ticket purchases and found you have done this regularly - so basically they are inviting you to prove that the tickets from Vauxhall might be legitimate, but I'm sure they are not so don't be tempted to lie and try to make them think they were....

But in your response you could include a phrase like

'This is something I have done on previous occasions, for which I am extremely sorry. I would be grateful for the opportunity to pay the sums I owe in respect of this'

For the one occasion they caught you it's probably a case of saying eg

'I was stopped without the correct ticket for my journey on that occasion when I had in fact made a journey from Esher to Waterloo'

assuming this is correct - obv it helps if some other evidence indicates that Esher is where you start from eg your address in Esher, or a place you regularly go and travel to / from is in Esher

The rest of your response should include the general advice often given very clearly on the forum by @Hadders about what to include in your reply which I expect you have seen already in other threads.

If there is something you can do to show that you will not do this again it will help - eg buy a season or flexi season between Esher and Waterloo so that you can tell them something that helps convince then you have changed your ways and will never fare evade again.

 

[Orion24]

Massively appreciate your feedback, I've drafted an initial response below. It's more expensive for me to book a season ticket than buying individual tickets as I have a 26-30 railcard, I've screenshotted the list of all my tickets purchased (correctly) since being stopped if you thought it would be valuable to include as an attachment?


Thank you for your email, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

On the noted travel day 31st July I travelled from Esher (my home) to waterloo and did not have valid ticket entitling me to travel this route, and I understand that the previous travel noted could also be considered similar instances of non-compliance, for this I am unequivocally sorry.

I recently moved to the London area after living in the United States for the past few years, and I am still adjusting to the commute here. While this is not an excuse, I genuinely did not comprehend the seriousness of my actions at the time and now deeply regret them. I was naïve in my understanding of the regulations and can only offer my sincerest apologies for my mistakes.

I would appreciate it if I could cover the cost of the travel, any applicable penalties, and your administrative costs to settle this matter outside of court. I assure you that this experience has been a powerful life lesson, and I am fully committed to complying with all regulations. I am also due to return to the United States, and I am concerned about the potential impact this matter could have on my visa status, which would be life-altering. I would be immensely grateful for any flexibility you could offer in resolving this matter.

Once again, I apologise sincerely for my actions, and I await your response.

 

[WesternLancer]

Massively appreciate your feedback, I've drafted an initial response below. It's more expensive for me to book a season ticket than buying individual tickets as I have a 26-30 railcard,

Understood - makes sense

I've screenshotted the list of all my tickets purchased (correctly) since being stopped if you thought it would be valuable to include as an attachment?

It can do no harm - but you then need to refer in your letter as to why you are including it if you do - ie - 'I attach a copy of tickets I have recently purchased to help assure you that I have learned from this incident and subsequently bought correct tickets on each occasion I have travelled'

Thank you for your email, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

On the noted travel day 31st July I travelled from Esher (my home) to waterloo and did not have valid ticket entitling me to travel this route, and I understand that the previous travel noted could also be considered similar instances of non-compliance, for this I am unequivocally sorry.

I recently moved to the London area after living in the United States for the past few years, and I am still adjusting to the commute here. While this is not an excuse, I genuinely did not comprehend the seriousness of my actions at the time and now deeply regret them. I was naïve in my understanding of the regulations and can only offer my sincerest apologies for my mistakes.

I would appreciate it if I could cover the cost of the travel, any applicable penalties, and your administrative costs to settle this matter outside of court. I assure you that this experience has been a powerful life lesson, and I am fully committed to complying with all regulations. I am also due to return to the United States, and I am concerned about the potential impact this matter could have on my visa status, which would be life-altering. I would be immensely grateful for any flexibility you could offer in resolving this matter.

Once again, I apologise sincerely for my actions, and I await your response.

ref the above draft - see my strikethrough - I would leave out the bit about going back to the US as
a)I'm not sure they will care and
b) they may think 'you should have thought of that before you started to regularly evade paying us for your ticket'

If you are not up against your deadline you may want to wait over the next 24 hours / weekend to see if you get other helpful comments here.

Of course tickets from Vauxhall to Waterloo are an obvious red flag for a potential evader as people would use Oyster / Contactless and tickets like your leave clear digital fingerprints for them to follow up.

 

[Orion24]

Understood - makes sense


It can do no harm - but you then need to refer in your letter as to why you are including it if you do - ie - 'I attach a copy of tickets I have recently purchased to help assure you that I have learned from this incident and subsequently bought correct tickets on each occasion I have travelled'


ref the above draft - see my strikethrough - I would leave out the bit about going back to the US as
a)I'm not sure they will care and
b) they may think 'you should have thought of that before you started to regularly evade paying us for your ticket'

If you are not up against your deadline you may want to wait over the next 24 hours / weekend to see if you get other helpful comments here.

Of course tickets from Vauxhall to Waterloo are an obvious red flag for a potential evader as people would use Oyster / Contactless and tickets like your leave clear digital fingerprints for them to follow up.

Updated draft:


Thank you for your email, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

On the noted travel day 31st July, I travelled from Esher (my home) to waterloo and did not have valid ticket entitling me to travel this route, and I understand that the previous travel noted could also be considered similar instances of non-compliance, for this I am unequivocally sorry.

I recently moved to the London area after living in the United States for the past few years, and I am still adjusting to the commute here. While this is not an excuse, I genuinely did not comprehend the seriousness of my actions at the time and now deeply regret them. I was naïve in my understanding of the regulations and can only offer my sincerest apologies for my mistakes.

I would appreciate it if I could cover the cost of the travel, any applicable penalties, and your administrative costs to settle this matter outside of court. I assure you that this experience has been a powerful life lesson, and I am fully committed to complying with all regulations as shown by my recent travel tickets all purchased correctly as attached.

I will be completely cooperative with any repercussions and immensely grateful if it’s possible to resolve without court proceedings.

Once again, I apologise sincerely for my actions, and I await your response.

Best Regards,

 

[WesternLancer]

Updated draft:


Thank you for your email, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

On the noted travel day 31st July, I travelled from Esher (my home) to waterloo and did not have valid ticket entitling me to travel this route, and I understand that the previous travel noted could also be considered similar instances of non-compliance, for this I am unequivocally sorry.

I recently moved to the London area after living in the United States for the past few years, and I am still adjusting to the commute here. While this is not an excuse, I genuinely did not comprehend the seriousness of my actions at the time and now deeply regret them. I was naïve in my understanding of the regulations and can only offer my sincerest apologies for my mistakes.

I would appreciate it if I could cover the cost of the travel, any applicable penalties, and your administrative costs to settle this matter outside of court. I assure you that this experience has been a powerful life lesson, and I am fully committed to complying with all regulations as shown by my recent travel tickets all purchased correctly as attached.

I will be completely cooperative with any repercussions and immensely grateful if it’s possible to resolve without court proceedings.

Once again, I apologise sincerely for my actions, and I await your response.

Best Regards,

Looks ok to me. Maybe hold fire on sending it to see if you get helpful edit suggestion other forum members if you have time to wait eg 24 or 48 hours. Do not miss a response deadline tho.

Are you e mailing this or posting it or both? If posting anything send it tracked postage from post office so you know it gets there. Its vital they receive this to avoid escalation to prosecution automatically.

 

[Orion24]

Looks ok to me. Maybe hold fire on sending it to see if you get helpful edit suggestion other forum members if you have time to wait eg 24 or 48 hours. Do not miss a response deadline tho.

Are you e nailing this or posting it or both? If posting anything send it tracked postage from post office so you know it gets there. Its vital they receive this to avoid escalation to prosecution automatically.

They haven't set any deadlines thankfully and only via email. It's been a week since I received it though so will look to send Monday latest.

 

[30907]

A few suggestions below:

Dear Sir or Madam

Thank you for your email concerning (case ref XXX). and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

On the noted travel day 31st July, I travelled from Esher (my home) to waterloo and did not have valid ticket entitling me to travel this route, and I understand that the previous travel noted could also be considered may be similar instances of non-compliance, for this I am unequivocally sorry.

I recently moved to the London area after living in the United States for the past few years, and I am still adjusting to the commute here. While this is not an excuse, I genuinely did not comprehend the seriousness of my actions at the time and now deeply regret them. I was naïve in my understanding of the regulations and can only offer my sincerest apologies for my mistakes.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would be agreeable for me to I could cover the cost of the travel, any applicable penalties, and your administrative costs to settle this matter outside of court. I assure you that this experience has been a powerful life lesson, and I am fully committed to complying with all regulations as shown by my recent travel tickets all purchased correctly as attached.

I will be completely cooperative with any repercussions and immensely grateful if it’s possible to resolve without court proceedings.

Once again, I apologise sincerely for my actions, and I await your response.

Best Regards, Yours faithfully

A couple of clarifications, and I have Anglicised the "top and tail" - UK business mails are still rather traditional

 

[Orion24]

Appreciate all the help guys, see final draft I'll send this evening. Would massively appreciate @Hadders taking a glance if you had a moment as I have seen the really helpful advice you've given to similar individuals-


Dear....

Thank you for your email concerning case *** and I really appreciate the opportunity to respond.

On the noted travel day 31st July, I travelled from Esher (my home) to waterloo and did not have valid ticket entitling me to travel this route, and I understand that the previous travel noted could be considered similar instances of non-compliance, for this I am unequivocally sorry.

I recently moved to the London area after living in the United States for the past few years, and I am still adjusting to the commute here. While this is not an excuse, I genuinely did not comprehend the seriousness of my actions at the time and now deeply regret them. I was naïve in my understanding of the regulations and can only offer my sincerest apologies for my mistakes.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would be agreeable for me to cover the cost of the travel, any required fines and your administrative costs to settle this matter outside of court. I assure you that this experience has been a powerful life lesson, and I am fully committed to complying with all regulations as shown by my recent travel tickets all purchased correctly as attached.

Once again, I apologise sincerely for my actions, and I await your response.

Yours faithfully

 

[Orion24]

to update you all-

response from Swr

Thank you for your response and explanation to our queries. I will now conclude my report and pass your case to our Prosecutions department who make the final decision regarding your case. Due to your quick response and cooperation I will be making a recommendation of an out of court settlement.

Cases are dealt with on a first come first served basis so please be patient.

------

Just had the bill through for £1,200. stinger but happy for it to be handled out of court.

----

Really appreciate all the help and info everyone has been able to provide

 

[WesternLancer]

to update you all-

response from Swr

Thank you for your response and explanation to our queries. I will now conclude my report and pass your case to our Prosecutions department who make the final decision regarding your case. Due to your quick response and cooperation I will be making a recommendation of an out of court settlement.

Cases are dealt with on a first come first served basis so please be patient.

------

Just had the bill through for £1,200. stinger but happy for it to be handled out of court.

----

Really appreciate all the help and info everyone has been able to provide

Thanks for update. I guess that this was always going to be costly, but a good result to get out of court settlement given the circs.

Glad the help here was useful.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know and glad we were able to assist.