SWR report

[bimbimbap]

hello! Have been told I have been ‘reported’ by a ticket inspector on an SWR TRAIN.

I didn’t realise that railcard wasn’t valid on peak trains, even though I saw it was more expensive on Trainline I just scrolled up to a later time labelled cheapest and bought this. Looking at the t&c of the ticket, it says that it is valid any time! There’s nothing about how it’s not valid on peak times.

I bought a ticket before boarding but was the completely wrong tickets. I scanned the ticket and it beeped, the barrier was open and I was not stopped by the station attendant. Afterwards I looked at my ticket and realised I’d bought the completely wrong ones.

My error was rushing for the train and not purchasing a new one before boarding. When the ticket inspector came one stop away from my work, I had not rectified my error by purchasing the correct journey.

I panic bought a single ticket from one stop after the stop I got on to my work place with a railcard. I can’t explain why I didn’t do it from my home station except pure panic. He scanned my ticket and asked me to refund that ticket and buy another one without a railcard, I did as he said and he scanned it.

After this, I believe the officer was satisfied and willing to show leniency. However I stupidly enquired why my first ticket itself said anytime day single with rail card if I was not allowed to use it anytime.

At this point he said he knew I did not get on at where i said i did and that I’d just bought the ticket now, and he asked me where I got on. He asked me at least twice and I admitted it. I was nervous and didn’t want to admit that I’d made a mistake to him. He told me I had lied to him and he would report me.

He didn’t take details but seemed to have them from scanning my ticket? and said I should ‘remember this conversation when I got a letter’.

I’ve learnt my lesson now and obvs should have read the terms and conditions, but nowhere on the ‘cheaper’ off peak railcard ticket does it say I can’t use it before a certain time- literally says anytime. I can see from googling that a min fare of £12 exists for railcards. I know I’m in the wrong and just want to pay what I owe plus whatever they want as long as I don’t have to go to court.

I didn’t get any kind of reference from the inspector is this normal?

Any advice appreciated thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

hello! Have been told I have been ‘reported’ by a ticket inspector on an SWR TRAIN.

I make return journeys in London to work that cost around £8 at peak time, £5ish with a railcard. I didn’t realise that railcard wasn’t valid on peak trains, even though I saw it was more expensive on Trainline I just scrolled up to a later time labelled cheapest and bought this. Looking at the t&c of the ticket, it says that it is valid any time! There’s nothing about how it’s not valid on peak times.

I bought a ticket before boarding but was the completely wrong tickets as I was going somewhere in central London after work I thought it made sense to buy a return from central London to work, and get on at my stop which is closer to work. I accidentally bought a ticket from my stop to central London instead of central London to work!

I was just not thinking clearly. I scanned the ticket and it beeped, the barrier was open and I was not stopped by the station attendant. Afterwards I looked at my ticket and realised I’d bought the completely wrong ones.

My error was rushing for the train and not purchasing a new one before boarding. When the ticket inspector came one stop away from my work, I had not rectified my error by purchasing the correct journey.

I panic bought a single ticket from one stop after the stop I got on to my work place with a railcard. I can’t explain why I didn’t do it from my home station except pure panic. He scanned my ticket and asked me to refund that ticket and buy another one without a railcard, I did as he said and he scanned it.

After this, I believe the officer was satisfied and willing to show leniency. However I stupidly enquired why my first ticket itself said anytime day single with rail card if I was not allowed to use it anytime.

At this point he said ‘don’t delude yourself’. He said he knew I did not get on at where i said i did and that I’d just bought the ticket now, and he asked me where I got on. He asked me at least twice and I admitted it. I was nervous and didn’t want to admit that I’d made a mistake to him. He told me I had lied to him and he would report me. I hoped the fare difference between my actual stop and the stop on my ticket would be the same as it’s the same London zone but there’s actually a difference of 80p!

He didn’t take details but seemed to have them from scanning my ticket? and said I should ‘remember this conversation when I got a letter’.

What’s going to happen now? I’ve been looking at my Trainline history, have been buying return tickets to work with a railcard for a while. I can see in 2022 though i did select some trains during peak time and used a railcard - so it definitely used to apply. Although it looks bad as I have ‘overlooked’ the price change and since just chosen later trains.

I’ve learnt my lesson now and obvs should have read the terms and conditions, but nowhere on the ‘cheaper’ off peak railcard ticket does it say I can’t use it before a certain time- literally says anytime. I can see from googling that a min fare of £12 exists for railcards. I know I’m in the wrong and just want to pay what I owe plus whatever they want as long as I don’t have to go to court.

I didn’t get any kind of reference from the inspector is this normal?

Any advice appreciated thank you

Hi and welcome

Yes, the restriction / minimum fare on certain Railcards (but not all) does confuse people and there are other cases on this forum with the same issue. It's the invalidity of the Railcard and the applied discount at the time you used it that made the 'anytime' ticket you held invalid.

Could you clarify what Railcard you have?

It then looks like you complained the problem by buying after boarding and that purchase being a 'short fare' - these are all things that deliberate and or habitual fare evaders do which is why it rang alarm bells with the ticket inspector.

I take it you gave your correct name and address to the staff? It would have helped if he had verified it from the scan but presumably that gives your address from your purchase history or at least your e-mail address. Check these are up to date with whoever you buy tickets form and check your spam e-mail folder regularly.

You will need to wait to hear from them in hard copy posted letter which it is vital you respond to in order to try and avoid a court prosecution. This should be possible to achieve. The letter will probably look like a threat to prosecute but with will give you the chance to explain your side of the story.

When you hear from them you can head here for advice on how to respond to get the least worst outcome.

You need to be aware they can easily interrogate all your on line ticket purchasing so if this has been happening for a while they will likely want payment for the tickets that would have not been valid with a Railcard discount. It might be an idea to check your own buying records to see how many that would be (do not detail lit all here however).

Also look over some other threads to get an idea of what will generally happen, and the advice typically given on what to do.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Different railway companies take different approaches to this sort of thing. So it would help us if you could tell us which company the inspector worked for. If you're not sure about that, please tell us which stations were involved - I'm sure you want to protect your privacy as much as possible, but we can probably work out the company from the stations.

<edit> Sorry - please ignore above. As @Haywain points out below, you'd told us this and I'd missed it.</edit>

 

[Haywain]

So it would help us if you could tell us which company the inspector worked for.

The OP said:

a ticket inspector on an SWR TRAIN.

 

[bimbimbap]

Hi and welcome

Yes, the restriction / minimum fare on certain Railcards (but not all) does confuse people and there are other cases on this forum with the same issue. It's the invalidity of the Railcard and the applied discount at the time you used it that made the 'anytime' ticket you held invalid.

Could you clarify what Railcard you have?

It then looks like you complained the problem by buying after boarding and that purchase being a 'short fare' - these are all things that deliberate and or habitual fare evaders do which is why it rang alarm bells with the ticket inspector.

I take it you gave your correct name and address to the staff? It would have helped if he had verified it from the scan but presumably that gives your address from your purchase history or at least your e-mail address. Check these are up to date with whoever you buy tickets form and check your spam e-mail folder regularly.

You will need to wait to hear from them in hard copy posted letter which it is vital you respond to in order to try and avoid a court prosecution. This should be possible to achieve. The letter will probably look like a threat to prosecute but with will give you the chance to explain your side of the story.

When you hear from them you can head here for advice on how to respond to get the least worst outcome.

You need to be aware they can easily interrogate all your on line ticket purchasing so if this has been happening for a while they will likely want payment for the tickets that would have not been valid with a Railcard discount. It might be an idea to check your own buying records to see how many that would be (do not detail lit all here however).

Also look over some other threads to get an idea of what will generally happen, and the advice typically given on what to do.

thank you for the reply!

I didn’t give my name and address as the inspector didn’t ask for it. So I suppose will come by email?

I have 26-30 railcard. Maybe I used to get discounts peak time wit the up to 25 railcard.

Hi and welcome

Yes, the restriction / minimum fare on certain Railcards (but not all) does confuse people and there are other cases on this forum with the same issue. It's the invalidity of the Railcard and the applied discount at the time you used it that made the 'anytime' ticket you held invalid.

Could you clarify what Railcard you have?

It then looks like you complained the problem by buying after boarding and that purchase being a 'short fare' - these are all things that deliberate and or habitual fare evaders do which is why it rang alarm bells with the ticket inspector.

I take it you gave your correct name and address to the staff? It would have helped if he had verified it from the scan but presumably that gives your address from your purchase history or at least your e-mail address. Check these are up to date with whoever you buy tickets form and check your spam e-mail folder regularly.

You will need to wait to hear from them in hard copy posted letter which it is vital you respond to in order to try and avoid a court prosecution. This should be possible to achieve. The letter will probably look like a threat to prosecute but with will give you the chance to explain your side of the story.

When you hear from them you can head here for advice on how to respond to get the least worst outcome.

You need to be aware they can easily interrogate all your on line ticket purchasing so if this has been happening for a while they will likely want payment for the tickets that would have not been valid with a Railcard discount. It might be an idea to check your own buying records to see how many that would be (do not detail lit all here however).

Also look over some other threads to get an idea of what will generally happen, and the advice typically given on what to do I know I feel really stupid for questioning the rules, particularly as I didn’t even have the right ticket.

will the fact I intended to buy to the correct one but didnt help my case? I guess not as I didn’t have one at boarding.

I ended up buying two tickets - my wrong one with a railcard and the one without - albeit from wrong station, but that in total was already more than a single would’ve been from my original station. Would the fact the numbers are quite low (difference of 80p) help here either?

 

[WesternLancer]

thank you for the reply!

I didn’t give my name and address as the inspector didn’t ask for it. So I suppose will come by email?

I have 26-30 railcard. Maybe I used to get discounts peak time wit the up to 25 railcard.


will the fact I intended to buy to the correct one but didnt help my case? I guess not as I didn’t have one at boarding.

I ended up buying two tickets - my wrong one with a railcard and the one without - albeit from wrong station, but that in total was already more than a single would’ve been from my original station. Would the fact the numbers are quite low (difference of 80p) help here either?

I guess you will most likely hear by e-mail then - so keep an eye on that and check spam.

I am not sure without checking on the different rules between the 16-25 Railcard and the 26-30 Railcard but of course you can check on the Railcard website (worth you being sure ref the one you now have to avoid any inadvertent mistakes in future)

ref the tickets - has this happened before? (ie have you bought tickets with Railcard discounts for use at times the Railcard is not valid?) - it would be the cumulative total of that that would be more than the low value of what went wrong on the occasion you were questioned that might have more influence on things.
But basically you need to wait to hear from them and see what they say.

Chances are it will a be a standard letter / e-mail that says along lines of 'you were travelling without a valid ticket on x date and we are considering what action to take'

If you co-operate with them (ie reply and apologise etc) there is a strong chance that it can be resolved without court action / prosecution. See the general advice @Hadders often gives on threads to see the sort of response you need to aim at giving.

 

[Haywain]

thank you for the reply!

I didn’t give my name and address as the inspector didn’t ask for it. So I suppose will come by email?

I have 26-30 railcard. Maybe I used to get discounts peak time wit the up to 25 railcard.


will the fact I intended to buy to the correct one but didnt help my case? I guess not as I didn’t have one at boarding.

I ended up buying two tickets - my wrong one with a railcard and the one without - albeit from wrong station, but that in total was already more than a single would’ve been from my original station. Would the fact the numbers are quite low (difference of 80p) help here either?

It appears that you have been pulled up for using discounted tickets at a time when you are not entitled to, and for short faring (if I understand your post correctly). The latter of those is probably the more serious as doing so is a criminal offence and you have rendered yourself liable to prosecution. The fact that your details have not been taken would appear to be an error by the inspector but you can still expect to be contacted as they will be able to trace your details from Trainline.

Regarding the railcards, a 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare applied for travel before 10:00 except during July and August - fares cannot be discounted below £12 - and the 26-30 Railcard is similar without the July August exemption. While the use of a discounted fare before 10:00 would normally be rectified by the charge of an excess fare the fact that you have done this regularly can be seen as fare evasion as well. As you will now hopefully understand, there is a reason that Trainline shows you a higher fare earlier in the day. Whilst the ticket might normally have no restriction on its use, the application of the railcard discount brings with it the additional time restriction.

 

[bimbimbap]

It appears that you have been pulled up for using discounted tickets at a time when you are not entitled to, and for short faring (if I understand your post correctly). The latter of those is probably the more serious as doing so is a criminal offence and you have rendered yourself liable to prosecution. The fact that your details have not been taken would appear to be an error by the inspector but you can still expect to be contacted as they will be able to trace your details from Trainline.

Regarding the railcards, a 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare applied for travel before 10:00 except during July and August - fares cannot be discounted below £12 - and the 26-30 Railcard is similar without the July August exemption. While the use of a discounted fare before 10:00 would normally be rectified by the charge of an excess fare the fact that you have done this regularly can be seen as fare evasion as well. As you will now hopefully understand, there is a reason that Trainline shows you a higher fare earlier in the day. Whilst the ticket might normally have no restriction on its use, the application of the railcard discount brings with it the additional time restriction.

Yes that’s correct! I’ve never short fared that journey before, I did it because I panic bought a ticket on the train.

My journey history will show a number of journeys with the return from correct stations, with the cheaper fare, I can’t say for certain that they were all used on peak services - I don’t usually travel peak times anyway. But I suppose they will ascertain that from ticket scans?

What do you think the likelihood is of prosecution?

 

[Haywain]

What do you think the likelihood is of prosecution?

As @WesternLancer said above:

If you co-operate with them (ie reply and apologise etc) there is a strong chance that it can be resolved without court action / prosecution.

The train company want the money you should have paid and settling out of court is the best way of achieving that.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes that’s correct! I’ve never short fared that journey before, I did it because I panic bought a ticket on the train.

And hopefully they won't find other short fare journeys either? (I might expect them to look for tickets bought between one or two stops before Waterloo like Vauxhall or Clapham Jct in order to get through the Waterloo barriers which they may find suspicious). You have to be prepared for them to start looking at your ticket purchases now they have stopped you with suspicious / wrong tickets.

My journey history will show a number of journeys with the return from correct stations, with the cheaper fare, I can’t say for certain that they were all used on peak services - I don’t usually travel peak times anyway. But I suppose they will ascertain that from ticket scans?

I think barrier scans will show the times you entered the platform and record if it is before 10am. This is why it is in your interest to try to work out how many times this has happened when the Railcard should not have been used. Hopefully you have a rough idea how many weekdays you travel before 10am and for how long you have been doing this whilst not aware of the Railcard rule concerned.

Clearly if you have a long journey the financial impact will be worse, but they will expect to charge you the full Anytime Single Fare with no allowance given for what you have already paid and this can soon add up. If they offer an out of court settlement you will be expected to pay the sum requested pretty promptly, and in full, so working out what that might be is a way you can prepare for resolving this by ensuring you have the money ready and accessible.

Think about things like
- does your boarding station have ticket gates?
- Are those ticket gates always in operation when you travel?
- And as a consequence do your tickets always get scanned when you commence your journey by the barrier scanners or on the train? (if on the train the staff should of course notice the ticket is wrong and explain why but that does not always seem to happen with 100% certainty)

If you name the stations concerned (you talk about 'work', 'central london' and 'home' locations so it's a bit hard to follow TBH) it is easier to know what tickets you had and how much was not paid, but if you feel you do not wish to include those location details to help retain confidentiality that is fair enough.

It should be possible to secure an Out of Court settlement, but it can never be guaranteed.

 

[father_jack]

I reckon the OP is trying is a "trick" that's going on more and more recently.

Say off peak day return starts at 0830 code W5- the pax can buy a CDR ok but to get around the before 1000 minimum fares they are winding the clock forward to say 1001 for their outward journey so the railcard discount applies. 34% off.

But to "validate" what they're doing some of the apps (Trainpal maybe ?) helpfully (not) say under the "1001" service they've selected to get the discount to apply "Your ticket is valid also on the 0946 0931 0916 0901 0846 0831" etc..........

But the minimum fare rule gets lost with this and the pax can conveniently say "BUT IT SAYS ON MY APP I CAN GO ON ALL THESE EARLIER TRAINS !!!" and get their 34% off.........

 

[WesternLancer]

I reckon the OP is trying is a "trick" that's going on more and more recently.

Say off peak day return starts at 0830 code W5- the pax can buy a CDR ok but to get around the before 1000 minimum fares they are winding the clock forward to say 1001 for their outward journey so the railcard discount applies. 34% off.

But to "validate" what they're doing some of the apps (Trainpal maybe ?) helpfully (not) say under the "1001" service they've selected to get the discount to apply "Your ticket is valid also on the 0946 0931 0916 0901 0846 0831" etc..........

But the minimum fare rule gets lost with this and the pax can conveniently say "BUT IT SAYS ON MY APP I CAN GO ON ALL THESE EARLIER TRAINS !!!" and get their 34% off.........

But I assume no staff/revenue teams would buy this when presented with ticket and railcard? Or do some give ppl the benefit of the doubt?