SWR Repaints and Refurbishments

[nlogax]

Oh OK. I thought that there would have been some sort of connection behind there. Am I being stupid by thinking that the doors simply open to leave a gap in the slanted front? If this was the case, surely it was obvious to the designers that that is unsafe as people could just fall off any sort of connecting board - especially clumsy people such as myself!

-Peter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briti...ding_railway_station_MMB_33_458007_458023.jpg

I think this explains it pretty well.. (no, those plants aren't sprouting out the top of the connection )

 

[swt_passenger]

Oh OK. I thought that there would have been some sort of connection behind there. Am I being stupid by thinking that the doors simply open to leave a gap in the slanted front? If this was the case, surely it was obvious to the designers that that is unsafe as people could just fall off any sort of connecting board - especially clumsy people such as myself!

-Peter

The gangway sections hinged up to the vertical, a bit like the 380s, I think, but much less practical to operate. There’s a picture on the Wikipedia class 458 page, as the previous poster got there a fraction of a second before me his link will do...

 

[Peter C]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briti...ding_railway_station_MMB_33_458007_458023.jpg

I think this explains it pretty well.. (no, those plants aren't sprouting out the top of the connection )

The gangway sections hinged up to the vertical, a bit like the 380s, I think, but much less practical to operate. There’s a picture on the Wikipedia class 458 page, as the previous poster got there a fraction of a second before me his link will do...

OK. Thanks very much to both of you. That connection definitely looks a bit dangerous! In a crash, those could easily become crushed together; more easily than a "usual" gangway on a train.

-Peter

 

[Goldfish62]

OK. Thanks very much to both of you. That connection definitely looks a bit dangerous! In a crash, those could easily become crushed together; more easily than a "usual" gangway on a train.

-Peter

Effective crumple zone then!

 

[LOL The Irony]

I read on a thread that only the guard was permitted to use them.

 

[SWRtrainfan]

I read on a thread that only the guard was permitted to use them.

On Desiros, you can walk through the end gangways if you are on a double/triple set of units. But sometimes they can be locked to passengers. Once, I was boarding a 450 and it was a refurbished unit coupled to an unrefurbished one, unfortunately the unrefurbished 450 arrived on the part of the platform I was standing on, so when I boarded the 450 I was going to walk to the other set (because I prefer the refurbished 450s), but the end gangways were locked which was slightly annoying :/

 

[Peter C]

Effective crumple zone then!

That's what I meant!

-Peter

 

[supervc-10]

Interesting. As with most things, it didn't work having different colours then!
The thing with "Joe public" and trains is that all of the commuters/non railway-enthusiasts I've spoken to can't tell the difference between most classes of train. I have known people to confuse a Class 43 and Class 800, which do look similar in terms of the front end being slanted, but they are very different!
The Class 220s/221s have destination boards on the sides, but I have personally never seen it being used by the public as they just use the announcements. Maybe having these boards on the new SWR units could help at stations which, and this may be a rare occurrence on the SWR network, do not have announcement systems.

-Peter

My dad commutes 2-3 days a week from Salisbury up to London. He definitely knows the difference between his 159s and everything else! He uses the trick of hunting for the diesel noises in Waterloo to find his train before the rush when the platform is announced.

Then again, he's been saying he's been on new trains because SWR have put some new seat covers on.... so make of that what you will!

 

[Peter C]

My dad commutes 2-3 days a week from Salisbury up to London. He definitely knows the difference between his 159s and everything else! He uses the trick of hunting for the diesel noises in Waterloo to find his train before the rush when the platform is announced.

Then again, he's been saying he's been on new trains because SWR have put some new seat covers on.... so make of that what you will!

Oh OK. I suppose he's the anomaly! He isn't alone in thinking that it is a new train when the seats change; according to my Modern Locomotives Illustrated magazine about the Southern Region EMUs, many passengers believed the Class 455s with SWT were new trains when the seats were moved around; a bit different to your scenario, but still similar.

-Peter

 

[Goldfish62]

I read on a thread that only the guard was permitted to use them.

Yes, it was a completely duff design. Mind you, things haven't really changed much. Even though new gangways have been fitted and were briefly available to passengers, they're now fit staff use only. Apparently again a design issue.

 

[K.o.R]

Yes, it was a completely duff design. Mind you, things haven't really changed much. Even though new gangways have been fitted and were briefly available to passengers, they're now fit staff use only. Apparently again a design issue.

Imagine the "gangways" on some of the early Class 37s then!

 

[43096]

Yes, it was a completely duff design. Mind you, things haven't really changed much. Even though new gangways have been fitted and were briefly available to passengers, they're now fit staff use only. Apparently again a design issue.

Given I walked through the gangway between two 458s as a passenger about 10 days ago, I’d say it’s not the design that’s duff...

 

[Goldfish62]

Given I walked through the gangway between two 458s as a passenger about 10 days ago, I’d say it’s not the design that’s duff...

You can say what you like. It's a fact that the gangways are locked most of the time and that is because, according to a guard I know, it's just too awkward to work the train from the cab while allowing passengers through.

Or are you suggesting staff are not doing their jobs properly?

 

[SWRtrainfan]

Given I walked through the gangway between two 458s as a passenger about 10 days ago, I’d say it’s not the design that’s duff...

Are you actually able to walk through the 458 gangways? Every time I've been on a 458, they've been locked to passengers...

 

[Goldfish62]

Are you actually able to walk through the 458 gangways? Every time I've been on a 458, they have been locked to passengers...

Started off as such, now locked most of the time.

 

[TEW]

They are suitable for passenger use now, but from what I hear it is very impractical for the guard to work the train with the gangway connection fully set up and open, because the design is quite poor.

 

[43096]

Started off as such, now locked most of the time.

Ah...... it’s now “most of the time”.

 

[theironroad]

Is this during rush hour when the train is very busy?

 

[SWRtrainfan]

What is meant by the DMCO of a train? I've seen this term used sometimes previously in this thread, but I don't know what it means

 

[swt_passenger]

What is meant by the DMCO of a train? I've seen this term used sometimes previously in this thread, but I don't know what it means

Its shorthand for the way the Siemens describe their carriages.
On a 444 it stands for Driving Motor Composite Open. Composite means first/standard. Open means a saloon rather than individual compartments. The other end car is a DMSO, ie standard only, the other three cars are trailers.

 

[SWRtrainfan]

Its shorthand for the way the Siemens describe their carriages.
On a 444 it stands for Driving Motor Composite Open. Composite means first/standard. Open means a saloon rather than individual compartments. The other end car is a DMSO, ie standard only, the other three cars are trailers.

Ok thanks

 

[swt_passenger]

Ok thanks

You can usually see how the manufacturer designated the carriages on the end data plates that show capacity, weight etc. (Generally they’re on the inboard ends near the intermediate gangways.)

One problem is that some of the rolling stock guide books on the market try and standardise the order of the lettered abbreviations to make everyone’s stock comparable - what I mean here is that a DMOC and a DMCO might show up in different places, but mean the same thing.

I think from memory Siemens use “Trailer Open Standard Lavatory Wheelchair” TOSLW for instance...

In theory the full modifications to the 450s should change the designations of 3 of the 4 carriages, I haven’t noticed if this is getting done though, has anyone else?

PS - the 444 end data plates actually use the following designations:
DMOC (P)TOSLW TOSLB1 TOSLB2 DMOS

Whereas the owning rolling stock leasing company, Angel Trains, describe them like this:
DMCO TSO TSO TSORMB DMSO
Note that has the first class at the wrong end of the train...

 

[Goldfish62]

They are suitable for passenger use now, but from what I hear it is very impractical for the guard to work the train with the gangway connection fully set up and open, because the design is quite poor.

Yes, that's what I'm told, plus the cab with gangway open is rather narrow because of the way the cab sides taper in.

 

[mchd2000]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know how to reset the internal dividing doors on the Class 444 which separate the main seating area from the toilet, doorway and bike racks?

 

[K.o.R]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know how to reset the internal dividing doors on the Class 444 which separate the main seating area from the toilet, doorway and bike racks?

There are green buttons above the internal doors (not the inter-coach doors) that turn them on or off. Usually one of the buttons will be sticking out if the door is disabled; press it to re-enable the door. I do this all the time when walking through the train.

 

[moley]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know how to reset the internal dividing doors on the Class 444 which separate the main seating area from the toilet, doorway and bike racks?

You mean the little green button above the centre of the door?

I was once on a unit into Waterloo which had a HVAC failure. Guard told passengers by door that if it got too hot to keep the door open by pressing the button to deactivate.

Roll forward a couple of years and I saw old lady fall over in doorway. Guard and I tried to help. Guard goes for lady, I press button to stop door constantly closing on her. Guard has go at me! Considering the button is in a passenger area, unprotected with no sign or warning - I thought that was a bit rich.

Moral of story, play with at your own peril.

 

[SWRtrainfan]

NB: SWR Desiro refurbishment is currently being done at a slower rate due to class 442 delay

Partially refurbished 450s:

003, 006, 007, 011, 014, 026, 027, 028, 030, 031, 035, 036, 040, 074, 076, 086, 087, 093, 099, 102, 105, 109, 110, 124, 126(25 units)

Full refurbishment of trains:

444s:
003, 005, 006, 007, 008, 010, 013, 015, 019, 020, 025, 029, 033, 034, 038, 039*, 040, 042, 044 & 045.(19 units completed)(42% complete)

450s:
001, 005, 008, 010, 013, 015, 016, 018, 019, 020, 024, 025, 032, 033, 037, 038, 041, 073, 075, 079, 080, 081, 082, 083, 084, 085, 091, 094, 095, 097, 100, 103, 106, 111, 112, 113, 115, 117, 119, 121, 122 and 125(42 units completed)(33% complete)

*currently being done

Let me know if any more trains have been fully refurbished and I will edit this post regularly

 

[theironroad]

You mean the little green button above the centre of the door?

I was once on a unit into Waterloo which had a HVAC failure. Guard told passengers by door that if it got too hot to keep the door open by pressing the button to deactivate.

Roll forward a couple of years and I saw old lady fall over in doorway. Guard and I tried to help. Guard goes for lady, I press button to stop door constantly closing on her. Guard has go at me! Considering the button is in a passenger area, unprotected with no sign or warning - I thought that was a bit rich.

Moral of story, play with at your own peril.

Keeping the doors closed serves two functions, it doesn't mess with the HVAC sensors so much so that the AC keeps working properly in each coach. Secondly, in the hopefully unlikely event of a major fire, it would disrupt a fireball rolling down the train.

Obviously, newer stock such as Thameslink and swr 707 has no coach partitions, so make of that what you will.

It seems that 99% of passengers know what the green buttons do now, so when people start queing to get off someone will probably operate it and not reset it. I've given up telling people not to do it as it usually ends in getting abuse. (As staff)

If I happen to sit near the door, I will reset it providing the HVAC and door are working ok, as it reduces the noise a bit if nothing else.

I should add that in the situation described, I'd be perfectly happy for the button to be operated (by anyone) if it stopped the doors closing on someone on the floor.

 

[Goldfish62]

Keeping the doors closed serves two functions, it doesn't mess with the HVAC sensors so much so that the AC keeps working properly in each coach. Secondly, in the hopefully unlikely event of a major fire, it would disrupt a fireball rolling down the train.

Obviously, newer stock such as Thameslink and swr 707 has no coach partitions, so make of that what you will.

It seems that 99% of passengers know what the green buttons do now, so when people start queing to get off someone will probably operate it and not reset it. I've given up telling people not to do it as it usually ends in getting abuse. (As staff)

If I happen to sit near the door, I will reset it providing the HVAC and door are working ok, as it reduces the noise a bit if nothing else.

I should add that in the situation described, I'd be perfectly happy for the button to be operated (by anyone) if it stopped the doors closing on someone on the floor.

Agree about the HVAC and of course general ambience, but fireballs? Really? I am sure there must be a whole host of other calamities that have more of a chance of happening on our incredibly safe railway system.

Incidentally, on the Windsor Lines where 1st Class is declassified many guards make a point of opening the partition doors to the first class area.

Talking of fire risks, London Underground has far tighter fire regulations for obvious reasons, but doesn't consider it necessary to have partitions at carriage ends in its new stock.

 

[Dougal2345]

If I happen to sit near the door, I will reset it providing the HVAC and door are working ok, as it reduces the noise a bit if nothing else..

Ironically on a Desiro the vestibules (with the doors shut) are the quietest place, as they're not afflicted with the air-con roar.

I (passenger) used to routinely reset the doors, but then once or twice found that they had been left open because the open button had stopped working, so don't do it as often now.

Incidentally what principle do the hard, round, illuminated buttons on a Desiro internal door use - is it pressure, or heat, or something else? They seem so solid I don't think it's pressure, but I'm not sure...