SWR refurbishing Class 158 and 159?

[sh24]

Today I was asked to complete a survey ahead of a refurbishment/replacement of the First class seats (at least). Some sensible questions about my priorities travelling First , e.g. space, power, table, privacy etc.

A couple of seating options were shown for feedback - one of which featured just airline style seating arranged 1-2 across the aisle. This seems like not a good idea and I offered that feedback very strongly!

Looks like this fleet aren't going anywhere for a while...?

 

[DelW]

Today I was asked to complete a survey ahead of a refurbishment/replacement of the First class seats (at least). Some sensible questions about my priorities travelling First , e.g. space, power, table, privacy etc.

A couple of seating options were shown for feedback - one of which featured just airline style seating arranged 1-2 across the aisle. This seems like not a good idea and I offered that feedback very strongly!

Looks like this fleet aren't going anywhere for a while...?

Did all the options retain 2 + 1 in first class? SWR downgraded the 444's first class to 2 + 2 when they were refurbished, which meant it's barely any better than standard. Previously I'd occasionally coughed up the extra for first, but I haven't bothered since.

I hope they retain the existing seats on the 159s, in standard as well as in first, IMO they're more comfortable trains than anything else on SWR.

 

[Irascible]

I hope they retain the existing seats on the 159s, in standard as well as in first, IMO they're more comfortable trains than anything else on SWR.

Very strongly agree!

If they're redoing the inside enough that they're looking at rearranging it all, hopefully they'll refurbish everything under the floor too...

 

[WarrenTManager]

Very strongly agree!

If they're redoing the inside enough that they're looking at rearranging it all, hopefully they'll refurbish everything under the floor too...

Intrigued at what you hope might be done under the floor?

 

[swt_passenger]

Did all the options retain 2 + 1 in first class? SWR downgraded the 444's first class to 2 + 2 when they were refurbished, which meant it's barely any better than standard. Previously I'd occasionally coughed up the extra for first, but I haven't bothered since.

I hope they retain the existing seats on the 159s, in standard as well as in first, IMO they're more comfortable trains than anything else on SWR.

The last published changes, as listed in the last franchise spec were mainly to change first to 2+2. There were slight variations across the 159/0 and 159/1, they didn’t both end up with the same numbers.

 

[Towers]

Hell of a shame to lose the truly superb seating on these, with the advent of dreadful Hitachi efforts on the nation’s intercity routes the SWR 158/159 fleet offers about the most comfortable first class offering you’ll find these days!

 

[sh24]

Did all the options retain 2 + 1 in first class? SWR downgraded the 444's first class to 2 + 2 when they were refurbished, which meant it's barely any better than standard. Previously I'd occasionally coughed up the extra for first, but I haven't bothered since.

I hope they retain the existing seats on the 159s, in standard as well as in first, IMO they're more comfortable trains than anything else on SWR.

All of the options were 2 + 1, thankfully.

 

[Meerkat]

Should be replacing with bi+modes rather than refurbishing!
Makes a hell of a racket and smell when a nine car one cranks up and leaves a station!
They are nice inside though - cosy.

 

[fgwrich]

Today I was asked to complete a survey ahead of a refurbishment/replacement of the First class seats (at least). Some sensible questions about my priorities travelling First , e.g. space, power, table, privacy etc.

A couple of seating options were shown for feedback - one of which featured just airline style seating arranged 1-2 across the aisle. This seems like not a good idea and I offered that feedback very strongly!

Looks like this fleet aren't going anywhere for a while...?

Has the survey or details been made public at all? I wouldn't mind answering a few questions if possible as well.

 

[nctd2306]

Should be replacing with bi+modes rather than refurbishing!
Makes a hell of a racket and smell when a nine car one cranks up and leaves a station!
They are nice inside though - cosy.

Cosy is definitely how I'd describe 1L36 and 37 today, both formed of only 2 (yes 2) carriages all the way from Exeter to Waterloo and return
Seen on my lunch break earlier today

 

[sh24]

Has the survey or details been made public at all? I wouldn't mind answering a few questions if possible as well.

The survey was on an iPad carried by onboard (agency) staff. I suspect they won't make it public to ensure they select a representative demographic.

 

[RPI]

To be honest, they should just do away with it now, it is never enforced, any morning train into and afternoon train out of Exeter first is just full of students with their feet on the seats and tables, playing loud music etc, half the time the guard just walks past them!

 

[Irascible]

Intrigued at what you hope might be done under the floor?

In some vague order of most to least hope -

* Replace the aircon
* Replace any ageing ancilliaries with a dubious supply chain
* Standardise the engines ( not a big deal, but that also helps supply chains ) unless they've managed to obtain an all-Cummins fleet already, and preferably standardise power output ( I guess that means fully standardising the actual engine model ).
* Perhaps very mildly uprate the engines if everything else can handle it. I don't have much hope on that one.

The aircon might be a major operation, but it seems to have caused problems almost from original fitment. Presumably if it's a reasonable refurb we might be looking at another 10 years? the HSTs got entirely new engines for that sort of period.

 

[WarrenTManager]

In some vague order of most to least hope -

* Replace the aircon
* Replace any ageing ancilliaries with a dubious supply chain
* Standardise the engines ( not a big deal, but that also helps supply chains ) unless they've managed to obtain an all-Cummins fleet already, and preferably standardise power output ( I guess that means fully standardising the actual engine model ).
* Perhaps very mildly uprate the engines if everything else can handle it. I don't have much hope on that one.

The aircon might be a major operation, but it seems to have caused problems almost from original fitment. Presumably if it's a reasonable refurb we might be looking at another 10 years? the HSTs got entirely new engines for that sort of period.

Aircon modules are in the roof

Ancillary suppliers are pretty good

Done. All 107 are R1 350hp Cummins

400hp engines burnt more fuel and the 50hp wasn’t worth the worse reliability. A change of transmission might improve things so when they rev high it actually translates to more movement.

Sorry for the pedantic one. There’s lots of things that would be on the wish list. Unless someone finds a sofa with a load of money I doubt HVACs would feature. Electric water pumps would improve reliability and performance.

 

[skyhigh]

Have the SWR fleet had the flowtec mods that other 15x fleets have received?

 

[WarrenTManager]

Have the SWR fleet had the flowtec mods that other 15x fleets have received?

VDP hoses? I think we had different VDP set up before the others got modded anyway

 

[RPI]

In some vague order of most to least hope -

* Replace the aircon
* Replace any ageing ancilliaries with a dubious supply chain
* Standardise the engines ( not a big deal, but that also helps supply chains ) unless they've managed to obtain an all-Cummins fleet already, and preferably standardise power output ( I guess that means fully standardising the actual engine model ).
* Perhaps very mildly uprate the engines if everything else can handle it. I don't have much hope on that one.

The aircon might be a major operation, but it seems to have caused problems almost from original fitment. Presumably if it's a reasonable refurb we might be looking at another 10 years? the HSTs got entirely new engines for that sort of period.

I find the Aircon on the SWR diesel fleet quite reliable? This summer I think I recall one maybe two trips where one coach had the windows open, it is very noisy mind, but usually handles the heat fine.

 

[dgl]

I was under the impression that all SWR/SWT 15x's had Liebherr AC units now which work about as well as possible given the amount of power available to run them.

 

[cav1975]

They should add a (staffed) buffet counter.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They should add a (staffed) buffet counter.

Hilarious!

 

[Bigfoot]

In some vague order of most to least hope -

* Replace the aircon
* Replace any ageing ancilliaries with a dubious supply chain
* Standardise the engines ( not a big deal, but that also helps supply chains ) unless they've managed to obtain an all-Cummins fleet already, and preferably standardise power output ( I guess that means fully standardising the actual engine model ).
* Perhaps very mildly uprate the engines if everything else can handle it. I don't have much hope on that one.

The aircon might be a major operation, but it seems to have caused problems almost from original fitment. Presumably if it's a reasonable refurb we might be looking at another 10 years? the HSTs got entirely new engines for that sort of period.

Multicoloured crayon mode activated

Aircon modules are in the roof

Ancillary suppliers are pretty good

Done. All 107 are R1 350hp Cummins

400hp engines burnt more fuel and the 50hp wasn’t worth the worse reliability. A change of transmission might improve things so when they rev high it actually translates to more movement.

Sorry for the pedantic one. There’s lots of things that would be on the wish list. Unless someone finds a sofa with a load of money I doubt HVACs would feature. Electric water pumps would improve reliability and performance.

Reality and realistic mode activated.

 

[Chester1]

Should be replacing with bi+modes rather than refurbishing!
Makes a hell of a racket and smell when a nine car one cranks up and leaves a station!
They are nice inside though - cosy.

I wonder if this was initated by SWR or the ROSCO? SWR is looking at battery EMU replacement as per interview in Rail Magazine last month. If that project can be completed before the 158s and 159s are life expired then there would be takers elsewhere on the network. I am sure they will go the way of TfW 150s and be run until they are due a C6 overhaul that cannot be financially justified and the rosco pulls the plug.

 

[fkofilee]

I wonder if this was initated by SWR or the ROSCO? SWR is looking at battery EMU replacement as per interview in Rail Magazine last month. If that project can be completed before the 158s and 159s are life expired then there would be takers elsewhere on the network. I am sure they will go the way of TfW 150s and be run until they are due a C6 overhaul that cannot be financially justified and the rosco pulls the plug.

Maybe GWR for their Wessex route Portsmouth - Cardiff

 

[Chester1]

Maybe GWR for their Wessex route Portsmouth - Cardiff

It's the wrong thread for speculation, I was just highlighting that a refurbishment doesn't mean they will stay with SWR until they are life expired. It's not clear whether this has been prompted by SWR/DfT or the Rosco.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Done. All 107 are R1 350hp Cummins

400hp engines burnt more fuel and the 50hp wasn’t worth the worse reliability. A change of transmission might improve things so when they rev high it actually translates to more movement.

Does that mean all the Class 159/0 engines have recently been replaced by those found on the Class 159/1s? Does Cummins still manufacture the R1 engines?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

They should add a (staffed) buffet counter.

Why?

 

[Irascible]

Multicoloured crayon mode activated

Well, hardly - the things I was eyeing have already been done, can't, or trialled, so obviously someone else wanted them too. It's not like it was "rip everything out from under the floor & replace it with a hybrid powertrain". I haven't been travelling much recently, so it's not like I can get to chat with people on there much.

Aircon modules are in the roof

Ancillary suppliers are pretty good

Done. All 107 are R1 350hp Cummins

400hp engines burnt more fuel and the 50hp wasn’t worth the worse reliability. A change of transmission might improve things so when they rev high it actually translates to more movement.

Sorry for the pedantic one. There’s lots of things that would be on the wish list. Unless someone finds a sofa with a load of money I doubt HVACs would feature. Electric water pumps would improve reliability and performance.

Wasn't pedantic - that was a concise & informative response, thank-you. Things like the water pump is what I had in mind originally, but for some reason I got fixated on supply issues halfway through...

 

[Towers]

Why?

In fairness, it’s a reasonably long journey on which the competing route provides catering, so it isn’t an entirely unreasonable suggestion. No idea where you’d put it, mind!

 

[Xavi]

In fairness, it’s a reasonably long journey on which the competing route provides catering, so it isn’t an entirely unreasonable suggestion. No idea where you’d put it, mind!

The return of the trolley would be welcomed!

 

[Tetragon213]

In fairness, it’s a reasonably long journey on which the competing route provides catering, so it isn’t an entirely unreasonable suggestion. No idea where you’d put it, mind!

The 159s are used from Waterloo-Exeter iirc, which is approx. 3:20. It warrants provision of catering, imo. Thing is, though, 159s usually come as a 3-coach unit, so on the longer 9 coach formations, you'd have duplication of the buffet counter.

Maybe plonk it in the First Class coach, and rip out the half-coach of standard?