SWR outgoing Metro fleet withdrawals (complete)

[swr444]

Didn’t last long, the 707s have gone back to the yard due to crewing issues as it wasn’t actually on the STPs…

 

[Juniper Driver]

It looks like 707024 + 707030 are making their first re-appearance since their withdrawal from SWR was postponed;

Realtime Trains | 2H21 1012 London Waterloo to Shepperton | 04/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 2H21 1012 departure from London Waterloo to Shepperton on 04/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Must have been the two unbranded 707's I've seen in Clapham Yard over the last two days.

 

[swr444]

Must have been the two unbranded 707's I've seen in Clapham Yard over the last two days.

they are

 

[Siemens Staines]

The paths for the onward movement today of what I believe is 458428 to Bournemouth and 458524 from Bournemouth are now on RTT.

5X73 0812 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5X73 0812 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 08/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5X73 0812 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 08/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q73 1612 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Q73 1612½ Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech | 08/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q73 1612½ departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech on 08/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Assuming that these trains run as planned, then I think that the status of the 458 fleet will be

458/5 In service (27)
458501-504,506,508-515,518-522,526,527,529-532,534-536

458/5 Long-term out of service (1)
458533 28.01.22

458/4 Completed and delivered to Bournemouth (6)
458405,407,417,423,425,428

458/4 Work in progress at Widnes (2)
458x16,x24

It is impressive that SWR are able to turn out 25 of the 27 remaining 458/5 diagrams on a daily basis, although that still leaves a daily short-formed diagram

07:01 Dorking to London Waterloo due 07:58
08:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 08:43
08:53 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 09:33
09:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 11:05
11:42 Guildford to London Waterloo due 12:56
13:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 13:42
13:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 14:31
14:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 16:05
16:28 Guildford to London Waterloo due 17:46
18:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 18:45
18:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 19:31
19:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 21:05
21:42 Guildford to London Waterloo due 22:56
23:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 23:42
23:59 Hampton Court to Wimbledon due 00:23
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:08/11/2023 04:42

 

[Goldfish62]

The paths for the onward movement today of what I believe is 458428 to Bournemouth and 458524 from Bournemouth are now on RTT.

5X73 0812 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5X73 0812 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 08/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5X73 0812 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 08/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q73 1612 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Q73 1612½ Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech | 08/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q73 1612½ departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech on 08/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Assuming that these trains run as planned, then I think that the status of the 458 fleet will be

458/5 In service (27)
458501-504,506,508-515,518-522,526,527,529-532,534-536

458/5 Long-term out of service (1)
458533 28.01.22

458/4 Completed and delivered to Bournemouth (6)
458405,407,417,423,425,428

458/4 Work in progress at Widnes (2)
458x16,x24

It is impressive that SWR are able to turn out 25 of the 27 remaining 458/5 diagrams on a daily basis, although that still leaves a daily short-formed diagram

07:01 Dorking to London Waterloo due 07:58
08:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 08:43
08:53 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 09:33
09:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 11:05
11:42 Guildford to London Waterloo due 12:56
13:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 13:42
13:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 14:31
14:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 16:05
16:28 Guildford to London Waterloo due 17:46
18:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 18:45
18:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 19:31
19:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 21:05
21:42 Guildford to London Waterloo due 22:56
23:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 23:42
23:59 Hampton Court to Wimbledon due 00:23
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:08/11/2023 04:42

Thanks for the update.

 

[Andy1673]

The paths for the onward movement today of what I believe is 458428 to Bournemouth and 458524 from Bournemouth are now on RTT.

5X73 0812 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5X73 0812 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 08/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5X73 0812 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 08/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q73 1612 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Q73 1612½ Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech | 08/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q73 1612½ departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech on 08/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Assuming that these trains run as planned, then I think that the status of the 458 fleet will be

458/5 In service (27)
458501-504,506,508-515,518-522,526,527,529-532,534-536

458/5 Long-term out of service (1)
458533 28.01.22

458/4 Completed and delivered to Bournemouth (6)
458405,407,417,423,425,428

458/4 Work in progress at Widnes (2)
458x16,x24

It is impressive that SWR are able to turn out 25 of the 27 remaining 458/5 diagrams on a daily basis, although that still leaves a daily short-formed diagram

07:01 Dorking to London Waterloo due 07:58
08:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 08:43
08:53 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 09:33
09:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 11:05
11:42 Guildford to London Waterloo due 12:56
13:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 13:42
13:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 14:31
14:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 16:05
16:28 Guildford to London Waterloo due 17:46
18:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 18:45
18:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 19:31
19:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 21:05
21:42 Guildford to London Waterloo due 22:56
23:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 23:42
23:59 Hampton Court to Wimbledon due 00:23
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:08/11/2023 04:42

this particular diagram would 26-27th 458s in service. this week and most of the last one it was served by a pair of 455s

 

[Goldfish62]

this particular diagram would 26-27th 458s in service. this week and most of the last one it was served by a pair of 455s

On which point there always seems to be an endless supply of 455s, ready to substitute for 458s or 450s especially on the Windsor lines. How many are diagrammed daily? I assume there must be a relatively generous number of spares.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that there are 62 455 diagrams, plus the 8v10 diagram mentioned above, so 64 in practice. There are 83 455s still on the books with SWR. There are 5 that have been long-term stopped, mainly on or awaiting C4, although there were twice that number only a few weeks ago but there does appear to have been a recent effort to return more of them to service.

 

[Andy1673]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that there are 62 455 diagrams, plus the 8v10 diagram mentioned above, so 64 in practice. There are 83 455s still on the books with SWR. There are 5 that have been long-term stopped, mainly on or awaiting C4, although there were twice that number only a few weeks ago but there does appear to have been a recent effort to return more of them to service.

that`s right. 31x2 class 455 diagrammed weekdays and 12x2 + 1 single class 458.

 

[Goldfish62]

that`s right. 31x2 class 455 diagrammed weekdays and 12x2 + 1 single class 458.

Thanks both. That answers my question perfectly.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that there are 62 455 diagrams, plus the 8v10 diagram mentioned above, so 64 in practice. There are 83 455s still on the books with SWR. There are 5 that have been long-term stopped, mainly on or awaiting C4, although there were twice that number only a few weeks ago but there does appear to have been a recent effort to return more of them to service.

Wimbledon doing a great job keeping them in traffic and just as well they were retractioned. Wouldn't be surprised to see them outperforming most other EMUs in the UK come the golden spanner awards

 

[Goldfish62]

Wimbledon doing a great job keeping them in traffic and just as well they were retractioned. Wouldn't be surprised to see them outperforming most other EMUs in the UK come the golden spanner awards

Agreed. Retractioning has increased their availability. Furthermore, it was always planned that it would result in their life being extended by 10 years, which will probably be the case!

 

[DelW]

Wimbledon doing a great job keeping them in traffic and just as well they were retractioned. Wouldn't be surprised to see them outperforming most other EMUs in the UK come the golden spanner awards

I haven't noticed many contributions lately from our correspondent Warren T Manager, who I think (from the nature of the posts) is / was closely involved with this work. Possibly too busy dragging 455s off the dead line and bashing them back into working order to mitigate the steady loss of 458/5s?

 

[swr444]

Is it true 455722 is going for scrap??

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is it true 455722 is going for scrap??

Where have you heard this sorry?

 

[swr444]

Where have you heard this sorry?

On Twitter https://twitter.com/morrd444/status/1724099586556408266

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

On Twitter https://twitter.com/morrd444/status/1724099586556408266

Oh I see; yes, from the linked X-post it does certainly look like it's reached some sort of end.

 

[The_Train]

Is it true 455722 is going for scrap??

Can any of our resident SWR staff confirm this please?

Edit: Now confirmed elsewhere as having made its final move

 

[YorkRailFan]

ANNOUNCEMENT:

For those of you who like your 707s, i have been informed they are to remain with us until April 24.

The red remains!!!

024 & 030 are currently running around. Apparently a second pair are somewhere and may start up soon

https://twitter.com/EthanAfro/status/1725528479574180244?t=fMXrKr_Hp5QdXPGE2RvXTw&s=19

Seems that SE needs more time to organise their stock and perhaps SWR expects teething issues on the 701s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

...perhaps SWR expects teething issues on the 701s.

Haven't we already had four years of teething issues with these...?!

 

[YorkRailFan]

Haven't we already had four years of teething issues with these...?!

They haven't entered service yet, there is usually some sort of teething issue when a train enters service, something like driver training or what not, that can't be ironed out beforehand.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Reading back through this thread, it looks like SWR now have 69 fewer units (265 cars) than when they took over the franchise.
Class 455 Down from 91 to 83 x 4 car
Class 456 Down from 24 to zero x 2-car
Class 458 Down from 36 to 27 x 5-car
Class 707 Down from 30 to two x 5-car (TYPO corrected]
Total units Down from 181 to 112.

Disregarding the 456s, as their removal only shortened trains from 10 to 8 car, the loss is still 45 units - down from 157 to 112 - more than a quarter. How much further can the fleet be depleted without completely abandoming the timetable?

(The Class 701 fleet will, if it ever eneters service, be 30 five-car units and 60 ten-car units, so equivalent to 150 of the current units).

 

[Snow1964]

Reading back through this thread, it looks like SWR now have 69 fewer units (265 cars) than when they took over the franchise.
Class 455 Down from 91 to 83 x 4 car
Class 456 Down from 24 to zero x 2-car
Class 458 Down from 36 to 27 x 5-car
Class 701 Down from 30 to two x 5-car
Total units Down from 181 to 112.

Disregarding the 456s, as their removal only shortened trains from 10 to 8 car, the loss is still 45 units - down from 157 to 112 - more than a quarter. How much further can the fleet be depleted without completely abandoming the timetable?

(The Class 701 fleet will, if it ever eneters service, be 30 five-car units and 60 ten-car units, so equivalent to 150 of the current units).

The 701s as ordered (750 vehicles) were basically 1 for 1 replacements, no expansion or reduction of fleet size.

91 x 4 car 455, 24 x 2 car 456, 36 x 5 car 458, 30 x 5 car 701,
364 + 48 + 180 + 150 = 742
so just rounding diff of part of a 10car unit

There was never supposed to be a reduction in trains, SWR bid on basis of more services and seats into Waterloo

 

[norbitonflyer]

The 701s as ordered (750 vehicles) were basically 1 for 1 replacements, no expansion or reduction of fleet size.

91 x 4 car 455, 24 x 2 car 456, 36 x 5 car 458, 30 x 5 car 701,
364 + 48 + 180 + 150 = 742
so just rounding diff of part of a 10car unit

There was never supposed to be a reduction in trains, SWR bid on basis of more services and seats into Waterloo

Quite so, but there are now fewer than 500 cars in service - 83x4+27x5+2x5=477. That is enough to form 41 eight car trains and 14 ten-car (plus two spare units - nine cars), a long way short of the 75 ten-car trains there are supposed to be. The fleet used to be enough to form 77 (56-ten-car, 21 eight-car, plus one spare 4-car unit)

And those 455s are rapidly running out of hours, whilst the 458s are being taken off one by one to be converted for the Portsmouth Line.

In short, you need twenty 701/0s (or all thirty 701/5s and five 701/0s) to eneter service just to make up the current shortfall, even before you can withdraw any more of the old units.

 

[50002Superb]

Reading back through this thread, it looks like SWR now have 69 fewer units (265 cars) than when they took over the franchise.
Class 455 Down from 91 to 83 x 4 car
Class 456 Down from 24 to zero x 2-car
Class 458 Down from 36 to 27 x 5-car
Class 701 Down from 30 to two x 5-car
Total units Down from 181 to 112.

Disregarding the 456s, as their removal only shortened trains from 10 to 8 car, the loss is still 45 units - down from 157 to 112 - more than a quarter. How much further can the fleet be depleted without completely abandoming the timetable?

(The Class 701 fleet will, if it ever eneters service, be 30 five-car units and 60 ten-car units, so equivalent to 150 of the current units).

What about the 707s?

 

[norbitonflyer]

What about the 707s?

Typo - I meant 707, not 701. If only there had been thirty 701s (or even two) in service by now!

 

[Siemens Staines]

Reading back through this thread, it looks like SWR now have 69 fewer units (265 cars) than when they took over the franchise.
Class 455 Down from 91 to 83 x 4 car
Class 456 Down from 24 to zero x 2-car
Class 458 Down from 36 to 27 x 5-car
Class 707 Down from 30 to two x 5-car (TYPO corrected]
Total units Down from 181 to 112.

Disregarding the 456s, as their removal only shortened trains from 10 to 8 car, the loss is still 45 units - down from 157 to 112 - more than a quarter. How much further can the fleet be depleted without completely abandoming the timetable?

(The Class 701 fleet will, if it ever eneters service, be 30 five-car units and 60 ten-car units, so equivalent to 150 of the current units).

Since 455722 departed by low loader a couple of weeks ago, there are now only 82 455s, although in practice it hadn't been part of the active fleet for nearly a year

 

[Snow1964]

Since 455722 departed by low loader a couple of weeks ago, there are now only 82 455s, although in practice it hadn't been part of the active fleet for nearly a year

Therefore of the 742 vehicles which were being replaced by 750 class 701

now got (82 x 4) + (0 x 2) + (27 x 5) + (2 x 5) = 473
which is just 63% of the fleet that was intended

However you look at it, there is rather more than 63% of commuters 2017-2019 using trains Tuesday-Thursday which means SWR must be crowding off some people

 

[DelW]

Disregarding the 456s, as their removal only shortened trains from 10 to 8 car, the loss is still 45 units - down from 157 to 112 - more than a quarter. How much further can the fleet be depleted without completely abandoming the timetable?

I would argue that the pre-Covid timetable (let alone the 2017 franchise renewal promised timetable) has already been completely abandoned.

PDL is at 50% of what was promised (67% of what used to be provided), Reading and Guildford New Line services are at 50% of what used to be provided, many routes are routinely short formed. It's hardly surprising that passenger numbers are so poor when the service is rubbish (with endless strikes and ASOS further deterring them).

What is sadly evident is that neither SWR nor DfT have any interest at all in providing an adequate or reliable service for the passengers (and others) who are funding it all via their taxes. And everyone seems content to let the present mess drag on year after year with no detectable effort to resolve the problems.

 

[Goldfish62]

PDL is at 50% of what was promised (67% of what used to be provided), Reading and Guildford New Line services are at 50% of what used to be provided, many routes are routinely short formed. It's hardly surprising that passenger numbers are so poor when the service is rubbish (with endless strikes and ASOS further deterring them).

Well indeed. The last time we had a consistent service that could be relied upon was late 2017, a whole six years ago. Since then it's been strikes then Covid then more strikes.

Without any judgement of the reasons for the above it's little wonder plenty of people have abandoned the railways in the SWR operational area.