SWR letter of prosecution

[shoestring]

Hi, I used an open return ticket that had been already used before and got stopped when exiting the station. I had it checked twice - when entering the station I asked the ticket officer to check because I wasn't sure if it's been used. They okayed it. Then on the train the conductor also checked it. It was only on my way out that I was told it's been used. I got issued a note for prosecution and told I'll most likely have to pay around 100 pounds. But I'm worried about the potential criminal record. I got in touch with lawyers who said they'd charge me 800 pounds altogether to get a settlement. I have one other open return ticket that's been used twice (which is why I thought this one hasn't been used). I wonder if it's safe to wait for SWR to write to me and then settle without lawyers and pay the fee. Or is there a danger they'll go hard? If the most likely outcome is a fee in the lower hundreds I feel like paying 800 for lawyers is a bit of an overkill. But I'm also super new to the UK and don't know how this system works.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2024 ==

PS: I forgot to mention that the tickets show as valid on the SWR app, which is why I got confused.

 

[Titfield]

Please can you post the note you have been given with your personal details obscured. From this we can tell if immediate action is required however it seems more likely it is simply an MG11 witness statement with no action required at this time.

If it is an MG11 You should wait until SWR write to you. Then post the letter here again with your personal details and any reference numbers obscured. The letter may take some weeks to arrive. The forum experts can then provide you with advice tailored to the matters raised by SWR. You do not need to contact a solicitor at this stage. The Forum experts will advise you if and when they consider that to be the appropriate step to take.

In the meantime you may wish to look at some of the advice given by @Hadders in various posts relating to not having a valid ticket. Whilst each case is unique many cases share similar features so looking at those posts may give you an understanding of the process.

The objective is to encourage SWR to offer you an out of court settlement rather than prosecuting you. The fact that you have used another ticket twice may influence their decision but that remains to be seen. Should an out of court settlement be offered it is likely to ask you yo pay the full single fare for the invalid ticket plus and admin fee of between £100 and £200.

 

[shoestring]

Here are the pictures of the receipt I got. The lawyer told me I should act proactively and reach SWR before they send me the letter.

 

[Hadders]

The lawyer told me I should act proactively and reach SWR before they send me the letter.

I disagree with what the lawyer has told you. If you are dealing with a case yourself then my view is it is best to wait for the train company to contact you. This is because you don't know what the train company is going to ask you and you could end up incriminating yourself when there is no need to do so.

Your case is straightforward in the grand scheme of things and SWR will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement as long as you co-operate with them, and haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the ticket you did purchase plus an admin fee, typically around £150.

When the letter from SWR arrives post a copy of it in this thread, along with a copy of your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

My view is there is no need to involve a solicitor at this stage. Should your reply to their letter not result ina favourable outcome then that is the time I would be loonking to engage a solicitor.

 

[shoestring]

Thanks! I actually already wrote to SWR explaining that I was confused by the app interface and that I had my ticket checked twice before I was stopped but obviously the other ticket officers were as confused by the app as me and there was no sure way to know if I had used the ticket before or not. I don't get why their tickets show as still valid after you've used them. I got an automated reply to my email that they probably won't get to replying on the next month or so.

 

[Haywain]

The lawyer told me I should act proactively and reach SWR before they send me the letter.

Was this a solicitor who specialises in railway fare evasion matters or a general criminal lawyer? If it's the latter their advice won't count for much due to their lack of experience in these matters. I agree with @Hadders that you should wait to hear from SWR.

 

[shoestring]

Was this a solicitor who specialises in railway fare evasion matters or a general criminal lawyer? If it's the latter their advice won't count for much due to their lack of experience in these matters. I agree with @Hadders that you should wait to hear from SWR.

It was a solicitor who specialises in railway fare evasion cases. I read that the UK railways are absolutely insane and actually prosecute people for ridiculously small cases, like buying the wrong type of ticket, and I got very worried that maybe I shouldn't rely on common sense if they are doing insane stuff like this. And that's why I thought maybe I should get a solicitor so I don't end up with a criminal record over something that would normally be just a fine in every other country on earth.

 

[Hadders]

Fare evasion is rife on the railway and travelling with an invalid ticket is a criminal offence. Many people would argue that people who break the law should get prosecuted.

As I said above, cases like yours can normally be resolved if you co-operate with the train company. Personally I would not have sent the email to SWR, or worded it in the way you did but that cannot be changed now.

Let us know when SWR contact you and we can assist with next steps.

 

[WesternLancer]

It was a solicitor who specialises in railway fare evasion cases. I read that the UK railways are absolutely insane and actually prosecute people for ridiculously small cases, like buying the wrong type of ticket, and I got very worried that maybe I shouldn't rely on common sense if they are doing insane stuff like this. And that's why I thought maybe I should get a solicitor so I don't end up with a criminal record over something that would normally be just a fine in every other country on earth.

They may reserve the right to do things as you have heard. But in reality much is resolved without such insane approaches.

Help from here as you need it will guide you as to how to get matters resolved as best as possible.

 

[John R]

It was a solicitor who specialises in railway fare evasion cases. I read that the UK railways are absolutely insane and actually prosecute people for ridiculously small cases, like buying the wrong type of ticket, and I got very worried that maybe I shouldn't rely on common sense if they are doing insane stuff like this. And that's why I thought maybe I should get a solicitor so I don't end up with a criminal record over something that would normally be just a fine in every other country on earth.

In most cases we see, cooperating with the railway and apologising when written to almost certainly results in a settlement, rather than prosecution. I strongly suspect that the majority of prosecutions are where people have not replied to the letter in the hope that the matter will just go away. The exception is TfL, which takes a much more rigorous attitude, but then given the simplicity of a contactless/Oyster network, I suspect the proportion of genuine mistakes is much lower.

And you might say that a ridiculously small amount shouldn't be prosecuted, but if done every day for a year, it suddenly becomes a much more meaningful amount. I used to commute first class on GWR, and one commuter got on every day at Temple Meads, picked up a complimentary copy of The Times and walked on into Standard Class. He did it for months until I tipped off the train crew one morning, who stopped him and gave him a right bollocking. Never saw him do it again. That would add up to theft of several hundred pounds a year at current prices.

 

[shoestring]

Thanks all for the advice. I'll wait for their letter and ask for advice again when I get it.