SWR & lack of onboard catering

[Gooner18]

Having recently gone to Wool from Waterloo a couple of things have struck me , firstly how slow SWR services seem to be , it took nearly 2 and a half hours to get there and nearly 3 hours back , even getting to somewhere relatively close like Portsmouth can take an age , if this due to it being 3rd rail ?
If you’re going on to Weymouth it takes over 3 hours which is ridiculous !

The second thing is for such a long / slow journey there is no onboard catering , surely a missed opportunity?

 

[yorkie]

Having recently gone to Wool from Waterloo a couple of things have struck me , firstly how slow SWR services seem to be , it took nearly 2 and a half hours to get there and nearly 3 hours back , even getting to somewhere relatively close like Portsmouth can take an age...

Waterloo to Weymouth is broadly the equivalent of if Newark was a dead-end and the terminus the ECML, and there were a lot of stations to serve between Peterborough and Newark.

It's just the way the geography is; Weymouth isn't en-route to Devon/Cornwall and is the end of the line, so it doesn't get the fast services that places such as Westbury, Taunton etc get.

if this due to it being 3rd rail ?

No.

If you’re going on to Weymouth it takes over 3 hours which is ridiculous !

See above. But it's still quicker than driving (even without heavy traffic). If anyone can think of a way that may be viable to speed up services, feel free to create a new thread in Speculative Discussion.

The second thing is for such a long / slow journey there is no onboard catering , surely a missed opportunity?

Potentially, but how many passengers are on these trains for more than a couple of hours? Most major stations have catering within the station or nearby, and these days many more people pre-purchase food / drinks to consume on trains, than purchase while on trains.

Are there any services where catering doesn't make a loss? I think the losses are generally accepted on InterCity services because there is that expectation of catering and some people are doing very long journeys, and the greater income in fares can go towards subsidising such costs. I am not sure the economics would work on Waterloo to Weymouth, but if anyone disagrees, feel free to post some facts and figures to support your case!

 

[Swedenorer]

The ex Southern TOCs removed most of the catering gradually, I think as completely unprofitable. Southern did try marketing it when Govia took over but they must have thrown in the towel by 2000 I should think It's a long time ago now that the buffets on the Portsmouth Direct were the home of chain smoking habitues buying beer after beer.

 

[Snow1964]

Potentially, but how many passengers are on these trains for more than a couple of hours? Most major stations have catering within the station or nearby, and these days many more people pre-purchase food / drinks to consume on trains, than purchase while on trains.

Although if starting from many of the stations in Dorset, there is nowhere to buy food nearby before boarding. (Hamworthy, Hinton Admiral, Holton Heath, Moreton, Upway Wareham, Wool, etc.

I should think It's a long time ago now that the buffets on the Portsmouth Direct were the home of chain smoking habitues buying beer after beer.

When the line was first electrified, in 1937, there was restaurant service, but that was in the days of ex public school navy officers going to/from London who would never dream of serving their own food.

If you’re going on to Weymouth it takes over 3 hours which is ridiculous !

The second thing is for such a long / slow journey there is no onboard catering

I recently went from my daughters in Dorset (from one of those stations without nearby shops) via London to Lincoln on a Sunday morning (first train starting from Weymouth) diverted via Chertsey and Isleworth, rather nearer 3.5 hours. Nearly double the time the LNER leg where food was served. And LNER First is rather more spacious for shorter journey than First class on a 444. Very inconsistent National service levels by DfTO operators

 

[Kite159]

Speaking of SWR catering, there is currently a survey being carried out on the West of England line where catering is one of the questions :

SWR Survey

SWR Survey.

survey.alchemer.eu

On board catering whilst it would be nice to have, will be a hard sell to the bean counters at the DfT who will potentially see it as increasing the cost of the railway (as profit margins with a trolley service will be non-existent or minimal when the cost of the extra staff employed takes taken into account).

 

[Goldfish62]

I am not sure the economics would work on Waterloo to Weymouth, but if anyone disagrees, feel free to post some facts and figures to support your case!

Catering existed on Waterloo to Exeter and Weymouth services until around 2021 when it was removed "due to Covid" and never reappeared. At the time the Acting MD was Mark Hopwood, who provides the worst catering of any long distance operator at his "home" TOC, GWR.

 

[3141]

I recall when the class 159s on the West of England line did have a trolley service. I then lived in Overton, about an hour from Waterloo.

If I hoped to buy a drink, and perhaps something to eat, from the trolley, the question was whether it would reach me in time. If I had boarded the train only five minutes or less before its departure, I'd have gone forward to where I could be sure of a seat, but the trolley might not get that far. Better, if there was time, to buy something at Waterloo rather than face the uncertainty of the trolley.

If my journey had been longer, there was the additional uncertainty about what would be left by the time the trolley reached me.

A crowded train would create difficulties for the trolley operator. I used to think that they'd be better to start from the front of the train. They would know from experience on what services this was the better option.

Of course there are many stations at or near which it is difficult to buy suitable food. If you boarded at an intermediate station, hoping to buy from the trolley, it might have just recently passed along the carriage you were in, and it might be some while before it returned.

On-board catering is probably loss-making. Many people carry a water bottle these days. If you really need a hot drink before you reach the end of your journey, a thermos flask offers a solution. It's possible to make one's own sandwiches, or buy some snack-like items, including healthy options for those wishing to avoid crisps or Mars bars. It is also possible to survive the journey from (e.g.) Wool to Waterloo without eating anything.

I recently went from my daughters in Dorset (from one of those stations without nearby shops) via London to Lincoln on a Sunday morning (first train starting from Weymouth) diverted via Chertsey and Isleworth, rather nearer 3.5 hours. Nearly double the time the LNER leg where food was served. And LNER First is rather more spacious for shorter journey than First class on a 444. Very inconsistent National service levels by DfTO operators

True, in several ways and for numerous and varied reasons, but unlikely ever to change.

 

[6PAN]

Catering existed on Waterloo to Exeter and Weymouth services until around 2021 when it was removed "due to Covid" and never reappeared. At the time the Acting MD was Mark Hopwood, who provides the worst catering of any long distance operator at his "home" TOC, GWR.

The 444s as built for SWT had a small counter buffet which was removed along with the guard's office when SWR refurbished them in 2017-2020, on-board catering having usually been provided by a trolley service for a while before that.

 

[Snow1964]

True, in several ways and for numerous and varied reasons, but unlikely ever to change.

The new rolling stock strategy does seem to split things into 4 types going forward. InterCity (with catering); Regional Express (with similar comfort levels, no high speed, and no catering); commuter/regional (with more standing space); urban (with lots of standing space, but can be used for seasonal strengthening with lots of luggage.

Waterloo-Weymouth is probably closer to Regional Express than a commuter service, but as it appears neither get catering

 

[Thames99]

Is it essential that catering is done by railway staff? Maybe there is scope for franchising it out to independent operators. Some enterprising cafe owners might be interested which would take the financial risk away from the railway.

 

[Djgr]

TfW manage to provide catering between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth

Where there's a will...you know the rest.

 

[JonathanH]

Is it essential that catering is done by railway staff? Maybe there is scope for franchising it out to independent operators. Some enterprising cafe owners might be interested which would take the financial risk away from the railway.

Isn't that what happened as part of the privatisation of British Rail? Catering on regional services was outsourced and over time, the organisations which provided it found it uneconomic to continue to provide it.

It may be noted that outsourced catering staff have recently been involved in industrial action essentially stemming from the margins being very tight on the remaining operations.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/outsourced-workers-to-strike-at-transpennine/

Outsourced cleaners and catering workers at TransPennine Express (TPE) will take 24-hour strike action tomorrow (Friday August 28) against low pay with picket lines across the country.

Catering workers at Rail Gourmet and cleaners at Bidvest Noonan have already taken action after the company failed to make an acceptable pay offer even though the anniversary date was back in April.

RMT general secretary Eddie Dempsey said that low pay was how outsourcing giants made money out of the rail network and called on the government to act.

“Greedy companies like Rail Gourmet and Bidvest Noonan hide behind the fact that TPE won’t take responsibility for low pay on their contracts.

“The government needs to act to end the scourge of low pay for outsourced workers and bring them in-house where they belong,” he said.

SWR catering was, I think, similarly outsourced to Rail Gourmet.

 

[6PAN]

Is it essential that catering is done by railway staff? Maybe there is scope for franchising it out to independent operators. Some enterprising cafe owners might be interested which would take the financial risk away from the railway.

The independent Settle Carlisle Railway Development Company offers a trolley refreshment service on most trains on that line as well as operating cafes at some stations. There used to be a refreshment trolley on the Heart of Wales line run, I think, by volunteers but that appears to be no more.