SWR DMU issues

[RPI]

I can't seem to find a current thread on this, but SWR seem to be really struggling with DMU availability of late, the majority of West of England services have been short formed for the past few weeks, does anyone know what's causing this?

 

[darkstar78]

A guard on SWR told me the other day that it's due to units being out of service and parts not being available? They'd worked a 3 car all the way from Exeter to London and back earlier in the day which was full and standing most of the way, both ways.
It seemed that the aircon units had failed on a lot of the units that were out and about.

 

[fgwrich]

A guard on SWR told me the other day that it's due to units being out of service and parts not being available? They'd worked a 3 car all the way from Exeter to London and back earlier in the day which was full and standing most of the way, both ways.
It seemed that the aircon units had failed on a lot of the units that were out and about.

I did a double take when I past a rogue two car in service by Wimbledon earlier too. A shame to see the fleet taking a dip again!

 

[43096]

I did a double take when I past a rogue two car in service by Wimbledon earlier too. A shame to see the fleet taking a dip again!

They seem to have been in an availability “dip” ever since Stagecoach left, which may be a sign as to the cause.

 

[RPI]

They seem to have been in an availability “dip” ever since Stagecoach left, which may be a sign as to the cause.

Whilst it did dip slightly after stagecoach, it's never been as bad as it has the past few months, it's worse in reality than appears too, yesterday 1L09 was showing as 6 car on both real time trains and on the screens at Honiton (I noticed that checking back to yesterday on RTT it has been corrected), yet when it arrived it was a 3 car. Luckily it wasn't too bad as the college has mostly finished in Exeter now. I spotted only two other 6 car sets throughout the day, one of which was 1L45 which has to be two units as it splits at Exeter with one unit coming back later on a different service.

There is also the rumour of a two hourly service being reintroduced at the end of the month because of the dried out embankment..... Though some SWR staff seem to think that's a convenient excuse to cover the chronic unit unavailability.

 

[yorksrob]

I never understand the problems with parts these days. Surely with 3d printing it mist be possible to manufacture almost any part needed !

 

[Phillipimo]

They seem to have been in an availability “dip” ever since Stagecoach left, which may be a sign as to the cause.

Stagecoach left almost 10 years ago which is probably a bigger issue, the trains aren't getting any younger and parts will only get more difficult to find. It's not helped by being 1 unit down since the Salisbury crash in 2021.

 

[Tom]

Whilst it did dip slightly after stagecoach, it's never been as bad as it has the past few months, it's worse in reality than appears too, yesterday 1L09 was showing as 6 car on both real time trains and on the screens at Honiton (I noticed that checking back to yesterday on RTT it has been corrected), yet when it arrived it was a 3 car. Luckily it wasn't too bad as the college has mostly finished in Exeter now. I spotted only two other 6 car sets throughout the day, one of which was 1L45 which has to be two units as it splits at Exeter with one unit coming back later on a different service.

They've got a lot of en-route failures going on at the moment. I've seen a few trains show as 6 but were actually 3 because they've had to knock a unit off at Salisbury for whatever reason. RTT now has a stock calendar which is quite revealing about some units...

There's also several units out for the overhaul and refurb works.

 

[Mike Machin]

I never understand the problems with parts these days. Surely with 3d printing it mist be possible to manufacture almost any part needed !

3-D printing generates plastic-based objects which are generally only suitable for non-working components, or those where it’s not necessary to withstand the stresses of continuous use.

The simple fact is that these units are quite simply very old and nearly life-expired and this, coupled with the inability to obtain spare parts means that reliability will continue to be a problem.

If one were to compare the situation with a car, I have a classic car and a nearly-new everyday EV. The classic often throws up various issues, despite being meticulously maintained. It’s absolutely fine for occasional use on ‘high days and holidays’ but it’s no longer up to the rigours of daily use.

Thirty plus years of intensive use for the 158s and 159s is very impressive, but their time is now up.

 

[RPI]

They've got a lot of en-route failures going on at the moment. I've seen a few trains show as 6 but were actually 3 because they've had to knock a unit off at Salisbury for whatever reason. RTT now has a stock calendar which is quite revealing about some units...

There's also several units out for the overhaul and refurb works.

This particular train started at Salisbury which was what made it seem odd.

 

[444045]

Just to let you know that :

5Y15 13+51 Bournemouth Depot to Salisbury Depot is running today but no unit allocated to the train yet on RTT.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

A guard on SWR told me the other day that it's due to units being out of service and parts not being available?

No wish to comment on the legality of the above comment, but in my time with SWT, we had a very good maintenance regime in place at Salisbury, based around actual failure rates and also supply and store of relevant parts should any unit fail, combined with (unit) diagrams that were based around this understanding.

Post my own retirement I was informed privately/off the record, soon after SWR took over the franchise, that changes had been made to the fleet maintenance procedures/supplies at Salisbury depot, which some (of those who contacted me) suggested may not bode well for the route. I can not comment on same in the here and now.

 

[Kite159]

It doesn't help that some of the engines coming back from getting rebuilt/refurbished are low quality.

 

[fgwrich]

No wish to comment on the legality of the above comment, but in my time with SWT, we had a very good maintenance regime in place at Salisbury, based around actual failure rates and also supply and store of relevant parts should any unit fail, combined with (unit) diagrams that were based around this understanding.

Post my own retirement I was informed privately/off the record, soon after SWR took over the franchise, that changes had been made to the fleet maintenance procedures/supplies at Salisbury depot, which some (of those who contacted me) suggested may not bode well for the route. I can not comment on same in the here and now.

If it’s what I think you’re referring to, SWT was known to have a large parts inventory in Salisbury TMD which allowed them to remain pretty hot on fleet issues. When First MTR came along, that was changed to a Just In Time set up with a heavier reliance on outside companies such as LH Group (Think of swapping your own garage of tools for ordering from Amazon Prime instead).

Coming from an engineering background, i can see it the practicalities and negatives in it - particularly when your suppliers are proving to be less than reliable.

See JIT Manufacturing: “By syncing production with real-time demand, businesses eliminate excess inventory, slash storage costs, and minimize waste—operating as a highly efficient "pull" system”.

 

[100andthirty]

JIT is all very well for a manufacturing set up. But I am convinced that the unpredictability of maintenance turns JIT into JTL.....Just too late.

 

[northernrailer]

Does anyone know what units are away for refurb at all?

 

[yorksrob]

JIT is all very well for a manufacturing set up. But I am convinced that the unpredictability of maintenance turns JIT into JTL.....Just too late.

Quite. "Just in time" procurement is the railway succumbing to trendy management theory, rather than contingency planning for a vital public service.

 

[Snow1964]

Thirty plus years of intensive use for the 158s and 159s is very impressive, but there time is now up.

They were introduced just over 33 years ago, and some of the units converted from 158s are 36 years old.

Whoever thought could continue to keep whole fleet of that age in service (rather than withdrawing some to provide extra spare parts) was probably looking at a spreadsheet, without understanding parts wear out and might not be replaceable (except by slow and expensive special order)

The idea they will get refurbs for another 7 years used, suggests to me their worn condition is not really understood, and conveyed clearly to DfT paymasters.

The 159 predecessors (generally mk2b coaches of 1969-70) were withdrawn after 23-24 years. Looking further back hard to find any stock that managed 33 years on the line. Mk1 coaches, class 50, Warship diesels, Bullied Pacific's, Bulleid coaches, Maunsell express coaches, LSWR ironclads etc. (there are some locos, eg Lord Nelson and LSWR T9, but not passenger stock since at least WW1, if ever)

 

[yorksrob]

Consolidating 158's from elsewhere and cannibalising them into the fleet seems the best option, feeding the strongest.

Similar to the thumpers which clocked up forty plus years in some cases.

 

[CR165022]

Does anyone know what units are away for refurb at all?

159101

 

[Big Jumby 74]

If it’s what I think you’re referring to, SWT was known to have a large parts inventory in Salisbury TMD which allowed them to remain pretty hot on fleet issues

Correct.

When First MTR came along, that was changed to a Just In Time set up with a heavier reliance on outside companies such as LH Group (Think of swapping your own garage of tools for ordering from Amazon Prime instead).

So I was informed by former colleagues.

Coming from an engineering background, i can see it the practicalities and negatives in it - particularly when your suppliers are proving to be less than reliable.

Ditto. But this comes from various viewpoints. Storage space at the relevant maintenance locations, and in SW terms (in my time) Salisbury, Wimbledon Park and Fratton depots all suffered from a lack of physical storage space to match the 'ideal' situation in relation to the work that would be required (in an ideal world) on the fleet types based/stabled therein.

“By syncing production with real-time demand, businesses eliminate excess inventory, slash storage costs, and minimize waste—operating as a highly efficient "pull" system”

Industry BS when all said and done - how many times has the railway suffered passenger facing train failures and delays as a result of such crap directing HMG (and other) related financial decisions about railway matters!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2026 ==

Quite. "Just in time" procurement is the railway succumbing to trendy management theory, rather than contingency planning for a vital public service.

Spot on.

 

[bramling]

Consolidating 158's from elsewhere and cannibalising them into the fleet seems the best option, feeding the strongest.

Similar to the thumpers which clocked up forty plus years in some cases.

They weren’t worked anywhere near as intensively, especially towards the end - indeed if one looks at their final years it was a similar story, declining reliability and units falling by the wayside.

 

[yorksrob]

They weren’t worked anywhere near as intensively, especially towards the end - indeed if one looks at their final years it was a similar story, declining reliability and units falling by the wayside.

True, but they did main line turns into London on the main lines.

. I suppose the thumpers had had their domain reduced by electrification, so the remaining lines had the pick. With modern DMU's and no electrification, there's nothing to cannibalise !

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Ditto. But this comes from various viewpoints. Storage space at the relevant maintenance locations, and in SW terms (in my time) Salisbury, Wimbledon Park and Fratton depots all suffered from a lack of physical storage space to match the 'ideal' situation in relation to the work that would be required (in an ideal world) on the fleet types based/stabled therein.

To clarify my previous comment:

Back in SWT days, solutions were found whenever possible, rather than just doing away with (on cost grounds), and as one example a heavy duty carpet cleaning machine was required primarily to keep 158/159 carpets clean. There was no space for this at Salisbury depot, so it was installed at Fratton depot (where I was introduced to it), and hence the two 159 diagrams that rotated through Fratton (in my time) were used as a means to clean the carpets on the 159 fleet as a whole on a rolling basis.

 

[fgwrich]

To clarify my previous comment:

Back in SWT days, solutions were found whenever possible, rather than just doing away with (on cost grounds), and as one example a heavy duty carpet cleaning machine was required primarily to keep 158/159 carpets clean. There was no space for this at Salisbury depot, so it was installed at Fratton depot (where I was introduced to it), and hence the two 159 diagrams that rotated through Fratton (in my time) were used as a means to clean the carpets on the 159 fleet as a whole on a rolling basis.

On that point, I remember the regular collection of freshly dry cleaned seat covers hanging in the windows of the dry cleaners down on Fisherton street. Presumably that’s now stopped too.

Just picking up on someone’s comment regarding Just In Time - granted, for manufacturing yes, for keeping a fleet like a rather sizeable And heavily worked fleet of sprinters going, granted, I can understand the negativity towards it. However it isn’t some marketing BS made up to appease the accountants but a process introduced by Toyota, along with the Kanban principles, during their large upscale in the late 60s early 70s when small Japanese cars became more economical to the outside world than big American gas guzzlers.

 

[JamesT]

3-D printing generates plastic-based objects which are generally only suitable for non-working components, or those where it’s not necessary to withstand the stresses of continuous use.

You can 3-d print metal items too, but it’s rather more expensive so not seen in the hobbyist market like the plastic ones.
But I suspect not economically enough for the rail industry to bother with.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

To clarify my previous comment:

Back in SWT days, solutions were found whenever possible, rather than just doing away with (on cost grounds), and as one example a heavy duty carpet cleaning machine was required primarily to keep 158/159 carpets clean. There was no space for this at Salisbury depot, so it was installed at Fratton depot (where I was introduced to it), and hence the two 159 diagrams that rotated through Fratton (in my time) were used as a means to clean the carpets on the 159 fleet as a whole on a rolling basis.

The challenge was ultimately the passenger growth became so strong on the core West of England line all the cl15x workings on the juice had to be converted to EMU to allow the DMU fleet to be focussed on the core route.

 

[RPI]

I'm not sure if SWR have found a secret container of spares, but the latter half of last week was a vast improvement. However, rumour has it that the usual summer 2 hourly emergency timetable is incoming.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

However it isn’t some marketing BS made up to appease the accountants but a process introduced by Toyota, along with the Kanban principles, during their large upscale in the late 60s early 70s when small Japanese cars became more economical to the outside world than big American gas guzzlers

Yes, I am aware. Was just letting off a little steam! JIT (I think) is better suited to such things as car production lines, but when one is dealing with aging resources, even with the best maintenance practices in place, can still throw a curved ball and leave egg on face for (in this case) a TOC.

 

[swrcommguard]

I'm not sure if SWR have found a secret container of spares, but the latter half of last week was a vast improvement. However, rumour has it that the usual summer 2 hourly emergency timetable is incoming.

Indeed. Likely to be implemented in the first week of August according to the most recent All-Staff Call with the senior leadership team.

The journey time to Exeter will be slightly shorter than during the last SMD timetable.