SWR Delay Repay - utter stupidity

[talldave]

I should have guessed that my first venture into SWR Delay Repay territory would not go smoothly. I can only describe the experience as utter stupidity. I mean, they offer me Contactless as a ticket type - I select it, I upload a screenshot of the contactless journey transaction showing tap in and tap out times. SWR's response? They say "Unfortunately, some of the required information is missing from your application.". What do they want? They want me to "provide a photo or scan of your travel ticket(s). Ticket images must display the ticket number, journey details and the price paid."

I am lost for words. Their Twitter team confirm my application is all OK and in order. So all I am able to do is "update" my application by uploading the same information again. How many times does I go around this pointless loop?

 

[superalbs]

I should have guessed that my first venture into SWR Delay Repay territory would not go smoothly. I can only describe the experience as utter stupidity. I mean, they offer me Contactless as a ticket type - I select it, I upload a screenshot of the contactless journey transaction showing tap in and tap out times. SWR's response? They say "Unfortunately, some of the required information is missing from your application.". What do they want? They want me to "provide a photo or scan of your travel ticket(s). Ticket images must display the ticket number, journey details and the price paid."

I am lost for words. Their Twitter team confirm my application is all OK and in order. So all I am able to do is "update" my application by uploading the same information again. How many times does I go around this pointless loop?

Better to just submit a regular complaint and ask for it to be dealt with like that. At least a human will see it then, they're usually less incompetent than the bots used (but not always).

 

[talldave]

Better to just submit a regular complaint and ask for it to be dealt with like that. At least a human will see it then, they're usually less incompetent than the bots used (but not always).

You could be right, but I will try playing the game the way their website schedules it this first time. Having uploaded the identical contactless screenshot again, their rejection randomiser came up with another reason to reject: they can't find a timetabled journey. CLUE FOR SWR: take my tap out time and check for a 34 minute delay on the train sat in the platform as I tapped out.

So now we move to the appeal stage where I've upped the ante by modifying my JPEG upload to include both the contactless journey proof and the realtimetrains info showing the 34 minute delay.

Fingers crossed. This is going to be the hardest £4.50 I've ever earned!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2025 ==

Appeal rejected. Complaint submitted, again with a screenshot of 2C15 on the day in question (20th August). The only thing I can think of is that the journey involves a 5 minute connection at Clapham Junction, which perhaps they don't consider possible? However, it's a connection I make on a daily basis in 90 seconds between platforms (14-6 for the journey in question, 4-15 on the return journey). But regardless of connection times, i was on an SWR train that was delayed by 30+ minutes.

 

[Watershed]

Appeal rejected. Complaint submitted, again with a screenshot of 2C15 on the day in question (20th August). The only thing I can think of is that the journey involves a 5 minute connection at Clapham Junction, which perhaps they don't consider possible? However, it's a connection I make on a daily basis in 90 seconds between platforms (14-6 for the journey in question, 4-15 on the return journey). But regardless of connection times, i was on an SWR train that was delayed by 30+ minutes.

The minimum connection time at Clapham Junction is 10 minutes, so that's not a valid connection. That will probably be why your claim is being rejected.

The fact you were on a delayed train is not what counts - it's the delay at your final destination, compared to the timetabled arrival time (based on valid connections) that counts.

 

[3rd rail land]

Your delay replay claim has to comply with the minimum connection time and in this case it did not. The fact you can make a connection in less than the minimum connection time is irrelevant for the purpose of delay repay.

How much later did you arrive at your final destination than scheduled if you had observed the minimum connection time? I suspect you arrived on time or with less than 15 minutes of delay.

That said the reasoning provided for rejection should be much clearer but even so you likely don't have a valid claim. If you tell us what journey you made and what time the first train was scheduled to depart then we can advise if you have a valid claim.

 

[AlterEgo]

But regardless of connection times, i was on an SWR train that was delayed by 30+ minutes.

That isn't relevant. What is relevant is you attempted to make a journey which is not advertised as being possible and therefore you have no claim. If you want recompense or to claim any disruption rights you have to make sure you abide by minimum connection times.

 

[35B]

It would be useful to know what the planned journey was - some of the usual details are absent.

 

[AlterEgo]

It would be useful to know what the planned journey was - some of the usual details are absent.

It wouldn't make any difference. The OP can only claim for the journey they actually made, and the simple fact we know they didn't meet the minimum connection time nullifies any claim.

 

[talldave]

GIP 07:38 - CLJ 07:53
CLJ 07:58 - SNS 08:22 (actual 08:57)

I get the point about connection times but my regular journey using this route works fine.

What's also irritating is that if I arrived by bus or car at CLJ for the 07:58 I'd be entitled to 50% DR - the very same £4.50 I'm claiming.

SWR's DR page says "if we delay your journey by more than 15 minutes...." - they did. But apparently not in the correct manner.

A passenger tapping in at CLJ between 07:53 and 07:58 gets £4.50, I get nothing despite being on the same train, delayed by the same time and claiming the same amount. It's illogical.

 

[AlterEgo]

I get nothing despite being on the same train, delayed by the same time and claiming the same amount. It's illogical.

It isn't illogical. The railway literally doesn't advertise and doesn't promise the journey you're making.

The railway promises you'll get into Staines at 0841 and not 0822 if you leave Gipsy Hill at 0738. That is the timetabled journey and what the company is contracted to provide.

 

[3rd rail land]

GIP 07:38 - CLJ 07:53
CLJ 07:58 - SNS 08:22 (actual 08:57)

I get the point about connection times but my regular journey using this route works fine.

What's also irritating is that if I arrived by bus or car at CLJ for the 07:58 I'd be entitled to 50% DR - the very same £4.50 I'm claiming.

SWR's DR page says "if we delay your journey by more than 15 minutes...." - they did. But apparently not in the correct manner.

A passenger tapping in at CLJ between 07:53 and 07:58 gets £4.50, I get nothing despite being on the same train, delayed by the same time and claiming the same amount. It's illogical.

If the car or bus journey was delayed and you missed the 07:58 you'd be entitled to precisely nothing.
I regularly ignore the minimum connection times but I know I'm doing this at my own risk and I can't claim delay relay if I miss the connection.

It isn't illogical. The railway literally doesn't advertise and doesn't promise the journey you're making.

The railway promises you'll get into Staines at 0841 and not 0822 if you leave Gipsy Hill at 0738. That is the timetabled journey and what the company is contracted to provide.

08:57 is 15 or more minutes after 08:41 so I'd say a claim for 15 minutes of delay would be valid.

 

[AlterEgo]

08:57 is 15 or more minutes after 08:41 so I'd say a claim for 15 minutes of delay would be valid.

The problem is you cannot pretend you took a different train. You can only claim for the journey actually made.

 

[3rd rail land]

The problem is you cannot pretend you took a different train. You can only claim for the journey actually made.

Ah, so even though the delay was 15+ minutes against an itinerary a journey planner would produce the claim is invalid because of a deviation to said itinerary?

 

[30907]

The problem is you cannot pretend you took a different train. You can only claim for the journey you made

...GIP 0738 SNS 0857 which is +16. It surely doesn't matter that they took a late-running train (unless said train was overtaken by the booked 0841 arrival?).

 

[AlterEgo]

...GIP 0738 SNS 0857 which is +16. It surely doesn't matter that they took a late-running train (unless said train was overtaken by the booked 0841 arrival?).

It does, because you cannot claim for a train or a journey you didn't take, or might have theoretically taken.

 

[talldave]

It isn't illogical. The railway literally doesn't advertise and doesn't promise the journey you're making.

The railway promises you'll get into Staines at 0841 and not 0822 if you leave Gipsy Hill at 0738. That is the timetabled journey and what the company is contracted to provide.

I get that now. From my point of view, I had no idea what connection time "the industry" thinks I need at Clapham Junction. In my phone I have a list of Southern trains and a list of SWR trains - I use that to work out what my next departure is. I have no ticket, I have no itinerary, I'm from TfL land, so I turn up, touch-in and go.

If the car or bus journey was delayed and you missed the 07:58 you'd be entitled to precisely nothing.
I regularly ignore the minimum connection times but I know I'm doing this at my own risk and I can't claim delay relay if I miss the connection.


08:57 is 15 or more minutes after 08:41 so I'd say a claim for 15 minutes of delay would be valid.

I don't get the relevance of a car journey being delayed. My comparison was to someone who walked through the barriers at CLJ at 07:53 and got on the same train as me. They would have paid £9 and got £4.50 back. Because I arrived on a train at 7:53 I don't, that's all. And this isn't about the money, I've put in my complaint to SWR that any DR would go to charity (rounded up to something sensible, of course). To be honest, it was their initial refusal because I hadn't supplied a scan of my "ticket" for a contactless claim that got my blood boiling - just more rail industry incompetence. Their system should be programmed to not permit that response for a contactless claim, but it isn't, presumably because their system hasn't been properly specified, implemented and tested. When they came up with a different refusal reason for the 2nd attempt with the identical claim, I assumed they were just firing off random refusals until I went away.

 

[30907]

It does, because you cannot claim for a train or a journey you didn't take, or might have theoretically taken.

The OP made the journey though, it's not theoretical.

 

[35B]

The OP made the journey though, it's not theoretical.

But on the date in question, there was no 08:13 train to Windsor because it was subject to a planned cancellation (see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L52313/2025-08-20/detailed)

Which raises the question about whether the train caught gives a valid claim of 15 minutes delay against what would have been a valid itinerary on the cancelled 08:13 from Clapham Junction. I share the view of @30907 that this would have been the reasonable claim.

 

[AlterEgo]

The OP made the journey though, it's not theoretical.

You cannot claim for trains you didn't travel on. They told them the journey, it was non compliant, it therefore doesn't qualify for delay repay. You cannot then say "well imagine I did travel on some trains I didn't actually travel on".

 

[30907]

You cannot claim for trains you didn't travel on. They told them the journey, it was non compliant, it therefore doesn't qualify for delay repay. You cannot then say "well imagine I did travel on some trains I didn't actually travel on".

The 0813 (valid connection) was cancelled, they caught a train that left at 0819. No imagination involved. They should however resubmit the claim based on the valid connection - ie 16min not 34.

 

[CMS1]

the simple fact we know they didn't meet the minimum connection time nullifies any claim.

Is that discriminating against the non-disabled?

 

[Egg Centric]

Is that discriminating against the non-disabled?

No

FWIW, wise non-disabled who aren't in a rush will make sure they take the whole of their minimum connection time to change trains to maximise delay repay. Their existence is on balance a money booster.

 

[Haywain]

wise non-disabled who aren't in a rush will make sure they take the whole of their minimum connection time to change trains to maximise delay repay.

That's one possible description, but there are others that are less complimentary.

 

[AlterEgo]

The 0813 (valid connection) was cancelled

It was pre-cancelled, so not in play for Delay Repay, but is in any case academic.

, they caught a train that left at 0819. No imagination involved.

No, they didn't. They caught one at 0758:

GIP 07:38 - CLJ 07:53
CLJ 07:58 - SNS 08:22 (actual 08:57)

That is the one they travelled on. They were on this train, and it was this train that was late. Is your suggestion that they should ignore this and create their own, compliant journey - one they didn't take?

 

[Haywain]

Is your suggestion that they should ignore this and create their own, compliant journey - one they didn't take?

And it will be demonstrable that they didn't take the compliant journey as the tap in/out times will be clear when contactless payment has been used.

 

[Bikeman78]

I must say you were rather brave risking a +5 at Clapham Junction when the next train was 30 minutes later.

At the other end of the scale, I travelled from Paddington to Cardiff recently. I had a walk up ticket and made the previous train to my intended departure which departed 40 minutes late, a few seconds after I boarded. In theory I could submit a claim for delay repay even though I arrived 20 minutes earlier than expected!

 

[talldave]

It was pre-cancelled, so not in play for Delay Repay, but is in any case academic.


No, they didn't. They caught one at 0758:


That is the one they travelled on. They were on this train, and it was this train that was late. Is your suggestion that they should ignore this and create their own, compliant journey - one they didn't take?

Strangely enough, when I got to CLJ the 0758 was just permanently delayed. I was about to get on the slow 0802, when the 0758's imminent arrival was announced, so I held back for the 0758 as it's a much faster service. What I didn't know was that the 0758 was going via the slow route and was stuck behind the 0802 all the way . But somewhat academic from a DR point of view as the 0802 is also out of scope on a SWR DR approved itinerary that I've never looked up!

 

[PorageOats]

The OP planned to travel from Clapham Junction to Staines taking the 07:58. I suggest claiming Delay Repay on that journey.

 

[Egg Centric]

The OP planned to travel from Clapham Junction to Staines taking the 07:58. I suggest claiming Delay Repay on that journey.

That wasn't the journey they were taking, you have to be honest to play Delay Repay unless you want to end up in court. What would you expect the OP to get in compensation for that?

It would imo though have been fine for the OP to have touched out at Clapham Junction and then touched in again 2 minutes later, to make it 2 consecutive journeys. Would have made them 90p net

 

[Haywain]

It would imo though have been fine for the OP to have touched out at Clapham Junction and then touched in again 2 minutes later, to make it 2 consecutive journeys. Would have made them 90p net

Although it would probably have put the connection they made out of scope, and removed the saving!