SWR Class 458 to be retained

[dodger]

Fortunately Amy (storm) hasn't reached the South Coast yet so I managed to see 5X95 formed with 458423. Most likely for a C4.


Dodger

 

[Goldfish62]

Yesterday the Reading line was 100% 458. All 458/4 except for a pair of 458/5s.

With replacement buses between Bracknell and Reading coinciding with a rugby International at Twickenham it was predictably total carnage.

 

[davews]

And even more carnage today with a tree down between Bracknell and Martins Heron, trains turning at Ascot most of the morning, presumably the buses still stopping at Bracknell. But at least 701041 is out today.

 

[Boalbads]

Noticed 458535 hasnt been out for a couple days, I presume its undergoing some maintenance?

 

[LUYMun]

458420+421 moved to Wimbledon yesterday due to it being involved in a fatality at Vauxhall.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Explains some of the 4 cars deputising on the windsor side.

 

[Goldfish62]

Explains some of the 4 cars deputising on the windsor side.

There were plenty of short formations yesterday before the fatality.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Noticed 458535 hasnt been out for a couple days, I presume its undergoing some maintenance?

passed 530/533 at Wandsworth Town around 1435ish and they were on a Weybridge service.

 

[NSEWonderer]

458535 is a 5car on the 09:50 Reading from Waterloo. Definitely still about.

 

[wokspotter]

There were plenty of short formations yesterday before the fatality.

The only thing that seems to have changed since GBR took over SWR is there are more short formations than ever.I saw two 4 car 455s yesterday on the Reading route and people were already standing on the 0823 as it left Wokingham for Waterloo.

 

[swr444]

The only thing that seems to have changed since GBR took over SWR is there are more short formations than ever.I saw two 4 car 455s yesterday on the Reading route and people were already standing on the 0823 as it left Wokingham for Waterloo.

Hardly true, there were plenty of short forms post covid when First / MTR were still running the service. I worked numerous amounts of 5 car 458s and 4 car 455s

 

[Boalbads]

The only thing that seems to have changed since GBR took over SWR is there are more short formations than ever.I saw two 4 car 455s yesterday on the Reading route and people were already standing on the 0823 as it left Wokingham for Waterloo.

The only differences I've personally noticed are the uptake in 701s being introduced (maybe this was part of the original plan under SWR? Didn't pay too much attention to it), and the decrease in 444/450s to Portsmouth and/or Weymouth & Poole.

 

[Class15]

the decrease in 444/450s to Portsmouth and/or Weymouth & Poole.

What precisely do you mean by this? I’m slightly confused.

 

[Boalbads]

What precisely do you mean by this? I’m slightly confused.

I seem to see less 444/450 pairs (9 cars) to Portsmouth, Poole, or Weymouth. It's usually a made up of single/double 444, or single/double/triple 450.

 

[DelW]

I seem to see less 444/450 pairs (9 cars) to Portsmouth, Poole, or Weymouth. It's usually a made up of single/double 444, or single/double/triple 450.

Ah thanks - I was confused too. Might be better to call them "444+450 combinations " or something similar?

 

[Boalbads]

Ah thanks - I was confused too. Might be better to call them "444+450 combinations " or something similar?

Yeah probably, sorry for the confusion

 

[wokspotter]

Hardly true, there were plenty of short forms post covid when First / MTR were still running the service. I worked numerous amounts of 5 car 458s and 4 car 455s

Surely this was planned because of the downturn in passenger numbers?
Aren't the current short forms due to the chronic lack of available stock?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

458 535 is back as a 10 car today; just seen it at Waterloo with 458 533.

 

[Goldfish62]

Surely this was planned because of the downturn in passenger numbers?
Aren't the current short forms due to the chronic lack of available stock?

Nope. Journeycheck on a daily basis reports loads of short forms compared with expected formations.

SWR are brimming over with surplus stock, unlike prior to the 701 rollout. Any shortage is self-inflicted.

 

[wokspotter]

Nope. Journeycheck on a daily basis reports loads of short forms compared with expected formations.

SWR are brimming over with surplus stock, unlike prior to the 701 rollout. Any shortage is self-inflicted.

Sorry,I don't understand this at all.If SWR are"brimming over with surplus stock", why are we subjected to 4 car 455s on the Reading line?

 

[Stephen42]

Sorry,I don't understand this at all.If SWR are"brimming over with surplus stock", why are we subjected to 4 car 455s on the Reading line?

The summary is that having stock doesn't necessarily mean you can effectively use that stock. There are plenty of 455s available, while they fail frequently, a replacement pair is readily available and any difficult issues to fix can get a 455 moved up the scrap queue. There are also plenty of 701s, however not many are passed for passenger service as covered on the main 701 thread, enough diagrams can be worked as a pair of 455s. The rest of the stock types are more challenging.

The class 458/4s in particular need 24 units in service from 28, though in reality only 26 have worked recently (and others are reported as parts donors to keep the rest running). That makes failures close together or difficult issues to fix lead to a shortfall in available units. All 24 diagrams require use of SDO somewhere in the diagram, requiring either station cancellations or a single 455 if they are to be replaced by 455s. All the 450s are spoken for, occasionally the pair of 458/5 covers with that being replaced by a pair of 455s but that only works for at most 2 458/4s short. Not all crew can work 701s and will be rostered to 450/455/458 work if they don't so replacing a 458 with a 701 would often be problematic. Instead of a 455 can use a single 458 if only one is available. It can also take time for short forms to work through the system. Last night a 4-car 455 ended up at Staines CHS instead of an 8-car 458/4 formation. That 4-car 455 had to start this morning and often it can be difficult to replace during the day even if stock is available.

The only extent it is self-inflicted is the decision to diagram that many 458/4s and not have more 455s booked. That would require more 701s in service before the 455s could be fully retired. This would increase expense and only give a certain amount of cover, it likely wouldn't have been sufficient for some days this week.

 

[Bikeman78]

The only extent it is self-inflicted is the decision to diagram that many 458/4s and not have more 455s booked. That would require more 701s in service before the 455s could be fully retired. This would increase expense and only give a certain amount of cover, it likely wouldn't have been sufficient for some days this week.

In theory they could reduce the 458 diagrams to 22 and substitute a pair of 450s. In turn, a pair of 455s cover one of the Wimbledon side metro turns. Given that a new 701 diagram is introduced every week or two, that would delay the elimination process by two weeks at most. In return, there would be 11 weeks of fewer ad hoc short formations.

 

[wokspotter]

The summary is that having stock doesn't necessarily mean you can effectively use that stock. There are plenty of 455s available, while they fail frequently, a replacement pair is readily available and any difficult issues to fix can get a 455 moved up the scrap queue. There are also plenty of 701s, however not many are passed for passenger service as covered on the main 701 thread, enough diagrams can be worked as a pair of 455s. The rest of the stock types are more challenging.

The class 458/4s in particular need 24 units in service from 28, though in reality only 26 have worked recently (and others are reported as parts donors to keep the rest running). That makes failures close together or difficult issues to fix lead to a shortfall in available units. All 24 diagrams require use of SDO somewhere in the diagram, requiring either station cancellations or a single 455 if they are to be replaced by 455s. All the 450s are spoken for, occasionally the pair of 458/5 covers with that being replaced by a pair of 455s but that only works for at most 2 458/4s short. Not all crew can work 701s and will be rostered to 450/455/458 work if they don't so replacing a 458 with a 701 would often be problematic. Instead of a 455 can use a single 458 if only one is available. It can also take time for short forms to work through the system. Last night a 4-car 455 ended up at Staines CHS instead of an 8-car 458/4 formation. That 4-car 455 had to start this morning and often it can be difficult to replace during the day even if stock is available.

The only extent it is self-inflicted is the decision to diagram that many 458/4s and not have more 455s booked. That would require more 701s in service before the 455s could be fully retired. This would increase expense and only give a certain amount of cover, it likely wouldn't have been sufficient for some days this week.

Many thanks for your detailed explanation.I now understand that it comes down to the difference between the terms "surplus stock" and "available surplus stock"

 

[Siemens Staines]

Was 5Y51 today 458423 returning from its C4 overhaul?

Realtime Trains | 5Y51 1432 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 17/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Y51 1432 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 17/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[dodger]

Was 5Y51 today 458423 returning from its C4 overhaul?

Realtime Trains | 5Y51 1432 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 17/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Y51 1432 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 17/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

458423 returned on 5Y51, but is 2weeks long enough for a C4 overhaul? The exterior looked as though it had received attention.

Dodger

 

[Siemens Staines]

458423 returned on 5Y51, but is 2weeks long enough for a C4 overhaul? The exterior looked as though it had received attention.

Dodger

Thank you for confirming 458423. I believe that the Reading 3-car 165s are taking two weeks for their C4 at Doncaster, but I have absolutely no idea if this is in anyway comparable to a 4-car 458, so as you say it could have been for other work?

 

[dodger]

Thank you for confirming 458423. I believe that the Reading 3-car 165s are taking two weeks for their C4 at Doncaster, but I have absolutely no idea if this is in anyway comparable to a 4-car 458, so as you say it could have been for other work?

I had not realised the time for class 165 was 2 weeks. 458415 was at Bournemouth depot for 3 weeks last month so I suppose it could get quicker with a good supply of exchange components.

Dodger

 

[Boalbads]

Does anyone have any estimates of how long 530/535 (I remember reading that 533 had a 2 year gap so I presume it has plenty left) has left until it's out of miles? Might try take a ride on it to Reading or something in a few weeks.

 

[DennisM]

How much longer do the final pair of 458-5 have left in passenger service before they are removed? Is this pair being converted or scrapped?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is this pair being converted or scrapped?

They have absolutely no future, but for how long they’ll be made to languish in Long Marston until Porterbrook realise this for sure is anybody’s guess.