SWR Class 458 to be retained

[LUYMun]

I'm guessing that the unit colliding with the tree was 458410?

Realtime Trains | 2S43 1452 London Waterloo to Egham | 26/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 2S43 1452 departure from London Waterloo to Egham on 26/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[nctd2306]

I'm guessing that the unit colliding with the tree was 458410?

Realtime Trains | 2S43 1452 London Waterloo to Egham | 26/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 2S43 1452 departure from London Waterloo to Egham on 26/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It was, I a saw a photo of the aftermath (that I probably shouldn't put on here)
The damage didn't look too bad but a thorough inspection of the unit front that collided will probably be necessary.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Paths are now on RTT for another Widnes transfer next week

Monday 30th September 2024
5F62 0514 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5F62 0514 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 30/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5F62 0514 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 30/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1016 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1016 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 30/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1016 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 30/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 1st October 2024
5X64 1218 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

Realtime Trains | 5X64 1218 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central | 01/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5X64 1218 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central on 01/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q64 1603 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 1603 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 01/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 1603 departure from Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 01/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z66 2008 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

Realtime Trains | 5Z66 2008 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard | 01/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z66 2008 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard on 01/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mansonlo49]

Paths are now on RTT for another Widnes transfer next week

Monday 30th September 2024
5F62 0514 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5F62 0514 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 30/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5F62 0514 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 30/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1016 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1016 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 30/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1016 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 30/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 1st October 2024
5X64 1218 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

Realtime Trains | 5X64 1218 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central | 01/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5X64 1218 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central on 01/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q64 1603 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 1603 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 01/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 1603 departure from Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 01/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z66 2008 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

Realtime Trains | 5Z66 2008 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard | 01/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z66 2008 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard on 01/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I assume is 406 going back to swr and 503 going to Widnes right? Thanks

 

[Ridgeblog]

So how reliable are these units now that they have been converted? Are they better or worse than before? As I understand, they have been in service for a few months now.

 

[swtrains]

Thank you my friend, really appreciate that someone knows what was what back then. For further clarity part of the reason there were still 3 x 8-450 diagrams on the Readings and a number of 8 car 455s still bouncing around at the end of said project, was that the order for 707's (which was 30 units/27 traffic) in the event, was the least expensive for 'The Department'. Plans for 36 and 40 x 707 were also submitted......I will say no more!

The 460 vehicles were part of the plan to get the first 5 car 458's up and running, before any of the existing diagrams (at that point) had to be reduced to 5 car to allow the rebuild cascade to work. IIRC there were four x 458/5 (essentially ex 460 vehicles) up and running before the first of the original 458/0's had to to be removed from service for the rebuild. The idea being that the whole plan could be delivered without any service train formation reductions.

Very interesting. Do you know if the 707s ever planned to be a full fleet replacement at some point, and how come the order for 36/40 didn't happen?

 

[Goldfish62]

I assume is 406 going back to swr and 503 going to Widnes right? Thanks

We'll no doubt find out in the January Modern Railways with Roger Ford's annual reliability survey. The 458/5s are SWR's most unreliable train so that's the benchmark.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Do you know if the 707s ever planned to be a full fleet replacement at some point, and how come the order for 36/40 didn't happen?

Looking back there seemed to be a fair bit of smoke and mirrors in play, in essence a lot of dealings well above my pay grade that I wasn't party to, but AFAIK there was never any plan for a one-off suburban type (as in 701) at that point in time. The issue SWT/DfT had at that time - I am talking 2007/8 here - was a massive uplift in demand that had become embarrassing on the Windsor side routes.

The idea behind how the entire (original) 10 car plan was to be resolved/implemented was the brainchild of someone for whom I have the utmost respect - always will have - but with public money (via DfT) involved there were limits as to how this could be done. I first became directly involved in late 2007/early 2008, a point at which plans for alterations to daily diagrams as referred to above (460 initial input to get the rebuild program rolling) and the associated cascade(s) planned, as in x number of 458/5 would be in service by x date etc, and on which exact peak services - had to be written in to the various contracts.

Given events outside the industry (in The City etc) in 2008, the industry nationwide was hit with a double wammy. In SWTs area early plans for an uplift of service provision (WLs) were ongoing, but then a need to reduce realtime costs, and reduce them vary fast. This was acheived by and large, with minimal impact to the OVERALL train service.

After the initial 458 conversion plan, there followed two further Add-on's, in order to increase the number of 8 car formations that could be increased to 10 cars, as it was now seen that the main suburban side was also in dire need of increased capacity, and in truth, this far down the line, I can not now remember if the 'new build' scenario (Desiro City as the then theoretical units were referred as) or the 456 side of things came first. I think it was the DC plan, the add-on 456 following on, but I may be wrong. Although I still have my initial draft working diagrams for all of this (458/5 dated 2008, 707 dated 2013), it's not relevant now, as the 458/5, 707 & 455/6 workings that became reality were as per the original draft workings, all bar a few minor changes, so there's nothing new to be added to the history of the whole plan as was.

As for the decision to go for 30 x 707 as opposed to the other two options, I suspect the usual suspect (in DfT terms) was the reason......the ££££...! In operating terms that was why 3 x 8 car 450 diagrams remained on the Reading route. I suspect it was a business commercial v cost decision and rightly so when public money is involved, especially given events of 2008 etc.

 

[norbitonflyer]

After the initial 458 conversion plan, there followed two further Add-on's, 'new build' scenario (Desiro City as the then theoretical units were referred as) or the 456 side of things came first. I think it was the DC plan, the add-on 456

.........and a key part of that plan was the retractioning of the 455s with ac motors, reducing the maintenence frequency, and thus allowing Wimbledon to cope with maintaining sixty extra units - 24x456, 6x458, 30x707.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

.........and a key part of that plan was the retractioning of the 455s with ac motors

Quite so!

 

[317 forever]

I realise I might not have fully kept up with developments here.

What I'm wondering is whether in general the 458/4s in service have been refurbished to SWR spec?

 

[Goldfish62]

I realise I might not have fully kept up with developments here.

What I'm wondering is whether in general the 458/4s in service have been refurbished to SWR spec?

Yes, a bit more so than the 450s and 444s because they have dark blue grab rails rather than retaining orange ones. Seating and carpet is all SWR spec.

 

[deepeetw]

Yes, a bit more so than the 450s and 444s because they have dark blue grab rails rather than retaining orange ones. Seating and carpet is all SWR spec.

Not sure whoever specified curtains for first class thought through the presence of the emergency hopper window - not sure it’ll open with them in place!

(They really need a bottom track too but that would make things even worse!)

 

[317 forever]

Yes, a bit more so than the 450s and 444s because they have dark blue grab rails rather than retaining orange ones. Seating and carpet is all SWR spec.

Oh thank you. I look forward to riding one, probably when a majority or all the conversions are complete.

I gather they will mix with 450s on applicable routes.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Oh thank you. I look forward to riding one, probably when a majority or all the conversions are complete.

I gather they will mix with 450s on applicable routes.

Possibly. At the moment they're just stopgaps for the 701s on the suburban side.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes, a bit more so than the 450s and 444s because they have dark blue grab rails rather than retaining orange ones. Seating and carpet is all SWR spec.

But, the side walls and doors are still SWT spec though with the side panels in the SWT “blue stone” type effect and dado rails in SWT blue.

 

[Goldfish62]

But, the side walls and doors are still SWT spec though with the side panels in the SWT “blue stone” type effect and dado rails in SWT blue.

Yes indeed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==

458519 and 458433 deputising all day today on a Reading diagram for a pair of 455s.

 

[nctd2306]

It has actually been the case each of the last 3 weeks that Monday and Friday the 2c07 diagram has been 455 but 458 Tuesday to Thursday. It's a good job too as anything less than 10 would leave a considerable number of people behind at Twickenham and Richmond. Boarding at Bracknell I'm one of the lucky ones who gets a seat whatever the stock

 

[Goldfish62]

It has actually been the case each of the last 3 weeks that Monday and Friday the 2c07 diagram has been 455 but 458 Tuesday to Thursday. It's a good job too as anything less than 10 would leave a considerable number of people behind at Twickenham and Richmond. Boarding at Bracknell I'm one of the lucky ones who gets a seat whatever the stock

Ah, makes sense, thanks. The thing is, with Reading right down the 701 introduction list sooner or later this diagram is going to move to long-term 8 coach operation mid-week.

The train an hour earlier, which quite recently went from 458/5 to 450 also struggles by the time it gets to Twickenham.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It

Ah, makes sense, thanks. The thing is, with Reading right down the 701 introduction list sooner or later this diagram is going to move to long-term 8 coach operation mid-week.

The train an hour earlier, which quite recently went from 458/5 to 450 also struggles by the time it gets to Twickenham.

According to journeycheck it should already have been an 8-car today

07:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 09:07
09:20 London Waterloo to Reading due 10:44
11:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 12:35
12:50 London Waterloo to Reading due 14:15
14:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 16:07
16:20 London Waterloo to Reading due 17:45
18:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 19:34
19:50 London Waterloo to Reading due 21:14
21:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 23:07
23:30 London Waterloo to Kingston due 00:15
Will be formed of 10 coaches instead of 8.
Last Updated:02/10/2024 06:59

It would appear that 458425 is the 16th 458/4 to enter passenger service today;

Realtime Trains | 2S27 1052½ London Waterloo to Weybridge | 02/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 2S27 1052½ departure from London Waterloo to Weybridge on 02/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[spark001uk]

Today's 5Q95 Eastleigh - Widnes appears to be at a stand for over an hour now on the up slow just outside Woking.

Realtime Trains | 5Q95 1748 Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech | 02/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q95 1748 departure from Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech on 02/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

57310 with (I assume) 8503. Dragging brake again perhaps?

 

[swr444]

Today's 5Q95 Eastleigh - Widnes appears to be at a stand for over an hour now on the up slow just outside Woking.

Realtime Trains | 5Q95 1748 Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech | 02/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q95 1748 departure from Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech on 02/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

57310 with (I assume) 8503. Dragging brake again perhaps?

it's been popped in the down sidings now

 

[ED73]

Today's 5Q95 Eastleigh - Widnes appears to be at a stand for over an hour now on the up slow just outside Woking.

Realtime Trains | 5Q95 1748 Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech | 02/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q95 1748 departure from Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech on 02/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

57310 with (I assume) 8503. Dragging brake again perhaps?

Definitely 8503. Seen at Farnborough

 

[mansonlo49]

Definitely 8503. Seen at Farnborough

Seen on traksy saying that hold 458, is it mean the locomotive detached and went off itself?

 

[spark001uk]

Seen on traksy saying that hold 458, is it mean the locomotive detached and went off itself?

Yes, just seen the loco (57310) pass me. It's on this VSTP working to Wembley.
.

Realtime Trains | 0Z57 2350 Woking Up Yard Recp. to Wembley H.S. | 02/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Z57 2350 departure from Woking Up Yard Recp. to Wembley H.S. on 02/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mansonlo49]

Yes, just seen the loco (57310) pass me. It's on this VSTP working to Wembley.
.

Realtime Trains | 0Z57 2350 Woking Up Yard Recp. to Wembley H.S. | 02/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Z57 2350 departure from Woking Up Yard Recp. to Wembley H.S. on 02/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I see thanks

 

[spark001uk]

57305 has now come down from Leicester LIP to collect 458503 from Woking up yard reception siding.

Realtime Trains | 0M57 1510 Leicester L.I.P. to Woking Up Yard Recp. | 03/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 0M57 1510 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Woking Up Yard Recp. on 03/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

.
No onward move in system as yet, will likely be another VSTP.

 

[mansonlo49]

57305 has now come down from Leicester LIP to collect 458503 from Woking up yard reception siding.

Realtime Trains | 0M57 1510 Leicester L.I.P. to Woking Up Yard Recp. | 03/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 0M57 1510 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Woking Up Yard Recp. on 03/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

.
No onward move in system as yet, will likely be another VSTP.

Seems the loco attached with the 458 already, according to traksy

 

[wickham]

57305 still in Woking Up Yard coupled to the train (458503 & Barriers) at 1645 today (04/10):

 

[mansonlo49]

57305 still in Woking Up Yard coupled to the train (458503 & Barriers) at 1645 today (04/10):

Cannot see in traksy ⋯