SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Busman]

Tablelless 455s for Ascot goers get's my vote. Make's it difficult for them to, quite literally, poor and snort their drugs then!

On second thoughts, anyone got any Pacers spare?

That'll teach them. Great punishment process.

 

[Goldfish62]

Given industrial relations currently I suspect there are issues being found where there wouldn't have been previously.

Yet other TOCs have introduced a lot of new trains recently. Are we really to believe that industrial relations are worse at SWR than at Avanti, for example?

I just think there's a general lack of will at SWR and the local union branches to move forward in any way. I'm sure if SWR was running the 385s they'd still be sat in sidings, rather than the windscreen issue being quickly sorted.

 

[Invincible]

Does anyone know which 458 vehicles were on the move by road on Saturday afternoon? Three (at least) were heading north on the A429 and then onto the M40 north.

So far all 458 moves have been by rail. Were they blue non refurbished 458s or perhaps something similar looking?

 

[BlythPower]

So far all 458 moves have been by rail. Were they blue non refurbished 458s or perhaps something similar looking?

They were blue, non-refurbished examples. Long Marston is in the broad area so maybe from there?

 

[SWT_USER]

Yet other TOCs have introduced a lot of new trains recently. Are we really to believe that industrial relations are worse at SWR than at Avanti, for example?

I just think there's a general lack of will at SWR and the local union branches to move forward in any way. I'm sure if SWR was running the 385s they'd still be sat in sidings, rather than the windscreen issue being quickly sorted.

I do agree with you, I'm just speculating as to possible reasons.

RE your bold - agree with that also. SWR has been getting progressively worse since First took over with their big promises of new trains and increased frequencies. Feels like a long time ago now and they have managed to deliver the exact opposite.

 

[Invincible]

They were blue, non-refurbished examples. Long Marston is in the broad area so maybe from there?

Post #2,194 says the old ex Gatwick Express trailer cars were stored there as parts donors, so perhaps moving somewhere to be stripped of spare parts and then scrapped?

 

[Goldfish62]

I do agree with you, I'm just speculating as to possible reasons.

RE your bold - agree with that also. SWR has been getting progressively worse since First took over with their big promises of new trains and increased frequencies. Feels like a long time ago now and they have managed to deliver the exact opposite.

They've been let off the hook by Covid. The string of failures would have been even starker otherwise.

 

[sprinterguy]

Post #2,194 says the old ex Gatwick Express trailer cars were stored there as parts donors, so perhaps moving somewhere to be stripped of spare parts and then scrapped?

Yeah, as of this morning a number of additional ex-458 trailers have arrived by road trailer at Reid Freight Services storage yard at Cockshute, Stoke to join those already present, so it's probably those.

 

[BlythPower]

Yeah, as of this morning a number of additional ex-458 trailers have arrived by road trailer at Reid Freight Services storage yard at Cockshute, Stoke to join those already present, so it's probably those.

That would sound right - thanks!

 

[janahan]

Yeah, as of this morning a number of additional ex-458 trailers have arrived by road trailer at Reid Freight Services storage yard at Cockshute, Stoke to join those already present, so it's probably those.

I think they may be ex-460 trailers?

 

[43096]

I think they may be ex-460 trailers?

Pedantically, that is correct: ex-460. They’re not ex-458 as they are still Class 458 vehicles, although they are ex-458 units!

 

[sprinterguy]

I think they may be ex-460 trailers?

They've most recently been removed from 458s, though yes, originally they would have been class 460 vehicles.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2024 ==

That would sound right - thanks!

74401/2/4, 25, 51 were the latest arrivals I could identify while passing at speed this afternoon - there were a couple of others yet to be unloaded behind.

Seems to have been a significant number of new arrivals since last week, joining those already on site.

 

[Siemens Staines]

If the allocation feed to RTT is correct, then 458533 returned to service this morning after nearly two and half years out of use...

2C05 0526 London Waterloo to Reading

Realtime Trains | 2C05 0526 London Waterloo to Reading | 10/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 2C05 0526 departure from London Waterloo to Reading on 10/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes of course, it's perfectly reasonable that the designers of the 458s nearly 30 years ago should have predicted that in the mid 2020s there'd be a desired to use them on the Portsmouth direct in 12-coach formations and someone would raise the issue of signal sighting. How incompetent not to predict this...

Moving signals has been done before to accommodate particular stock, but OK, let's forget it - obviously too difficult on the South Western, like everything else it seems.

I don't really know how to respond to this. The point is, they currently run 444 and 450 to Portsmouth which work fine. Why move another type of train on to the route which doesn't work with the existing infrastructure? Didn't they think to check the 458s were suitable before spending millions converting them?

 

[Goldfish62]

Why move another type of train on to the route which doesn't work with the existing infrastructure? Didn't they think to check the 458s were suitable before spending millions converting them?

So once again a suggestion that things are much more difficult to do on the South Western than elsewhere.

It's a wonder that the 458/0s, 450s, 444s and 707s ever actually got introduced.

SWR have now failed to successfully introduce the 442, 484 (they were, then they weren't), 701 and 458/4. What a shameful record.

 

[Lockwood]

The ones that got introduced were all SWT, not SWR. (707s being cut fine!)

 

[Invincible]

So once again a suggestion that things are much more difficult to do on the South Western than elsewhere.

Upsetting staff, and passengers, leading to 4 years of strikes, (and COVID) did not help.

South Western rail franchise boss not committing to guard role

Andy Mellors confirms new fleet of trains will retain a "second person" on board, but refuses to say what that person's role will be.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Upsetting staff, and passengers, leading to 4 years of strikes, (and COVID) did not help.

South Western rail franchise boss not committing to guard role

Andy Mellors confirms new fleet of trains will retain a "second person" on board, but refuses to say what that person's role will be.

www.bbc.co.uk

That's true. He should never have been appointed in the first place given his reputation at GWR, but he was moved on and is at Avanti where they have successfully introduced new trains. Then Hopwood came in and calmed things down did he not?

I know a couple of staff at SWR and they seem content with working for the outfit. Could it be that all the problems with seemingly being unable to do anything about anything are, apart from incompetent management, down to a hardcore of agitators? After all, the South Western has had a long-held reputation for militancy going back to at least the 1960s.

 

[DelW]

That's true. He should never have been appointed in the first place given his reputation at GWR, but he was moved on and is at Avanti where they have successfully introduced new trains.

They have, but they've also suffered repeated service meltdowns, apparently caused (or at least contributed to) by poor workforce relations leading to a disinclination to work rest days or other overtime. How much that's due to one person is debatable, since the situation isn't restricted to GWR, SWR and Avanti.

 

[Goldfish62]

They have, but they've also suffered repeated service meltdowns, apparently caused (or at least contributed to) by poor workforce relations leading to a disinclination to work rest days or other overtime. How much that's due to one person is debatable, since the situation isn't restricted to GWR, SWR and Avanti.

That's exactly my point. There are bad industrial relations all over the railways, but that hasn't prevented new trains being introduced elsewhere.

 

[Invincible]

I know a couple of staff at SWR and they seem content with working for the outfit. Could it be that all the problems with seemingly being unable to do anything about anything are, apart from incompetent management, down to a hardcore of agitators? After all, the South Western has had a long-held reputation for militancy going back to at least the 1960s.

Things have been sorted with RMT, but not with Aslef.
So training with 701s and 458/4s has started, and 458/4s should be temporarily on the Hounslow, Weybridge line soon, releasing 450s for the Reading line?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2024 ==

There were 5 458/4 at Wimbledon Park yesterday

 

[swr444]

Things have been sorted with RMT, but not with Aslef.
So training with 701s and 458/4s has started, and 458/4s should be temporarily on the Hounslow, Weybridge line soon, releasing 450s for the Reading line?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2024 ==

I mean there’s currently 2 4 car diagrams so it’ll be to replace those first

 

[Goldfish62]

Things have been sorted with RMT, but not with Aslef.
So training with 701s and 458/4s has started, and 458/4s should be temporarily on the Hounslow, Weybridge line soon, releasing 450s for the Reading line?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2024 ==

Thanks for the update. At least moving in the right direction, however slowly.

 

[Invincible]

I mean there’s currently 2 4 car diagrams so it’ll be to replace those first

I was going by TEW's post #2,910 where training had started, but still no date for service for the 458/4s?

 

[mansonlo49]

5Q95 1832 Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech departing today, anyone know which thanks?​

 

[swr444]

I was going by TEW's post #2,910 where training had started, but still no date for service for the 458/4s?

Drivers are being trained and guards have been sent out a brief which we need to sign for.

 

[Phillipimo]

Realtime Trains | 5Q95 1217 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 12/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q95 1217 departure from Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 12/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Just passed 5Q95 Wimbledon Park depot to Woking and back. Operated by a 458/4 but don't ask me which unit!

 

[444045]

5Q95 1832 Eastleigh East Yard to Widnes Transport Tech departing today, anyone know which thanks?​

69009 hauling U.458508 plus barrier vehicles.

 

[jwhite9185]

69009 hauling U.458508 plus barrier vehicles.

Just passed through Woking a few seconds ago.

What do the green barrier vehicles do? Prevent any potential damage to the front/rear?

 

[D6130]

Just passed through Woking a few seconds ago.

What do the green barrier vehicles do? Prevent any potential damage to the front/rear?

They act as translator vehicles to allow the locomotive to haul the units. Each barrier vehicle has a standard screw coupling and air brake pipes at one end (next to the loco) and a unit coupler - combined with air brake and electrical connections - at the other.