SWR Class 458 to be retained

[fgwrich]

Did the unit ever get to Bournemouth depot this evening? Or was it caped at Southampton?

Edited - looked likely to be caped but made it, very delayed, to Bournemouth in the end.

 

[Western Sunset]

About a dozen of us were waiting at Branksome for it... More enthusiasts than passengers on the station.

Was it trouble with the unit or locos I wonder?

 

[fgwrich]

About a dozen of us were waiting at Branksome for it... More enthusiasts than passengers on the station.

Was it trouble with the unit or locos I wonder?

I’ve heard a mention that it was down to gauging and paperwork issues, though whether this is down the reclassified 458, or 69s, I don’t know.

Has a 69 made it west of Southampton yet? 56s certainly have in recent years - at least a few have been to Swanage.

 

[Western Sunset]

A 69 has visited Swanage for last years Diesel Gala, so should be good along the route. Whilst an unrefurbished 458 travelled to BM depot yesterday, as many have done before.

 

[pigs bay]

good to see it returning south, so now when is 458407 coming down, then Bournemouth depot can start on testing them coupled together

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hopefully we’ll have a 458 diagram creep onto the Portsmouth Direct from December’s change then… or possibly sooner to release 450s to cover the outbound 707s.

 

[TEW]

No chance. ASLEF have only accepted them for testing in their current state.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No chance. ASLEF have only accepted them for testing in their current state.

It’s currently July. You don’t think 5 months will be enough time to get them in service? They are, after all, exactly the same train minus the 460 car.

 

[pompeyfan]

According to twitter account @Shunterinred, 5Q65 eventually made it to Bournemouth TRSMD.

https://twitter.com/shunterinred/status/1681519424145072131?s=46&t=7Exlt27nB2Ru7iZ66Iq0nQ

It was my privalege to signal the very first 458/4 (8417) into Bournemouth traincare depot last night- I was convinced it wasn’t coming but it made it in the end! 56081/69008 ended up spending the night in 17 road.
I didn’t take photos while doing any safety critical tasks.

I’m still not sure they’ll ever carry passengers…

 

[Goldfish62]

It’s currently July. You don’t think 5 months will be enough time to get them in service? They are, after all, exactly the same train minus the 460 car.

Indeed. It was 2-3 months for the 458/5s.

You have to remember that there are people on here who don't want to accept that SWR will ever be able to introduce any more new trains.

 

[TEW]

The difference with the 458s is that SWR have no plans to introduce them in to passenger service at present. That could change, but that's likely to require more funding, which the DfT aren't exactly in the mood for at the moment. If they were to be introduced to service the cabs would require a full refurbishment, which hasn't been done. So no, I don't think they'll be in service by December, but then I don't think they'll return to service at all.

 

[Siemens Staines]

If they do not re-enter service and the 458/4 programme continues (as it appears with 458523), SWR will be loosing 5-car units from their existing operational fleet without replacement, on top of the loss of the 707s, unless the 701s enter traffic. Admittedly, if the 458/4 refurbishment continues to take as long as it has done to date, then it will not have much of an impact. Perhaps worth noting that 458507+458517 last ran in passenger service on 23/09/21. If the 701s do come good by the end of the year, the Windsor line can then lose its 458s, and it will not matter. At the moment it looks like SWR is losing stock without either of the potential replacement fleets being operational. It is a bit like watching a snail race, 701 introduction vs 458/4 refurbishment!

 

[Goldfish62]

but then I don't think they'll return to service at all.

I agree with you there!

 

[LUYMun]

Looks like 69008 and 56081 will be heading back north this morning:

Realtime Trains | 5M52 1144 Eastleigh East Yard to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 19/07/2023

Real-time train running information for 5M52 1144 departure from Eastleigh East Yard to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 19/07/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Snow1964]

The difference with the 458s is that SWR have no plans to introduce them in to passenger service at present. That could change, but that's likely to require more funding, which the DfT aren't exactly in the mood for at the moment. If they were to be introduced to service the cabs would require a full refurbishment, which hasn't been done. So no, I don't think they'll be in service by December, but then I don't think they'll return to service at all.

I don't really get why they would spend money converting them, if not planning to use them. Seems like money wasting stupidly, incompetence, indecision, lack of strategy (choose which best describes).

This is a 54 page thread on keeping them, bit late to decide to do a U-turn once work is already done on some.

 

[D6130]

I don't really get why they would spend money converting them, if not planning to use them. Seems like money wasting stupidly, incompetence, indecision, lack of strategy (choose which best describes).

This is a 54 page thread on keeping them, bit late to decide to do a U-turn once work is already done on some.

Unfortunately SWR and the DfT already have form on this sort of behaviour. (See the threads on class 442 units).

 

[fgwrich]

I don't really get why they would spend money converting them, if not planning to use them. Seems like money wasting stupidly, incompetence, indecision, lack of strategy (choose which best describes).

This is a 54 page thread on keeping them, bit late to decide to do a U-turn once work is already done on some.

At the end of the day though, this is only Porterbrook’s money that is being spent on refurbishing these. In effect and unlike the 442s where most of the fleet was refurbished at Angels expense, these are prospectively being done.

 

[Snow1964]

At the end of the day though, this is only Porterbrook’s money that is being spent on refurbishing these. In effect and unlike the 442s where most of the fleet was refurbished at Angels expense, these are prospectively being done.

Presumably Porterbrook has some sort of commitment from SWR, otherwise would be painting them in neutral or someone else's colours if it was just a speculative refresh

 

[Invincible]

The difference with the 458s is that SWR have no plans to introduce them in to passenger service at present. That could change, but that's likely to require more funding, which the DfT aren't exactly in the mood for at the moment. If they were to be introduced to service the cabs would require a full refurbishment, which hasn't been done. So no, I don't think they'll be in service by December, but then I don't think they'll return to service at all.

Guess they will have a period of testing and crew training Portsmouth to Waterloo and return to ensure no unforeseen problems (like the 442s).
If already in use, not sure why the cab needs further refurbishment

 

[43096]

If already in use, not sure why the cab needs further refurbishment

Because ASLEF have to have something to complain about and so they can delay service introduction as long as possible. See also the Aventras.

 

[Goldfish62]

If they do not re-enter service and the 458/4 programme continues (as it appears with 458523), SWR will be loosing 5-car units from their existing operational fleet without replacement, on top of the loss of the 707s, unless the 701s enter traffic. Admittedly, if the 458/4 refurbishment continues to take as long as it has done to date, then it will not have much of an impact. Perhaps worth noting that 458507+458517 last ran in passenger service on 23/09/21. If the 701s do come good by the end of the year, the Windsor line can then lose its 458s, and it will not matter. At the moment it looks like SWR is losing stock without either of the potential replacement fleets being operational. It is a bit like watching a snail race, 701 introduction vs 458/4 refurbishment!

GWR and Cross Country are both short of rolling stock, caused by DfT decisions, so it seems that SWR is likely to join the club.

 

[DelW]

Unfortunately SWR and the DfT already have form on this sort of behaviour. (See the threads on class 442 units).

And the GWR 769s. We're told there's no money to keep existing provision, let alone improve anything, yet the DfT / railway industry (take your pick) seems happy to squander other people's money rebuilding trains then scrapping them unused.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see refurbished 458s joining the list of shame. The Covid "emergency" timetable cuts seem to have become permanent on SWR, and short forms and overcrowding is now the norm in many areas. Get rid of stock and drive away passengers, then the government can cut the subsidy.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I hope they've fitted carpets. Lino floors will make it feel like a commuter train. Those on the 334 are particularly bad, actually.

 

[pompeyfan]

I don't really get why they would spend money converting them, if not planning to use them. Seems like money wasting stupidly, incompetence, indecision, lack of strategy (choose which best describes).

This is a 54 page thread on keeping them, bit late to decide to do a U-turn once work is already done on some.

The rumour is that they’re contract bound to refurbish and deliver 3 units for acceptance before the rest of the fleet are done, so 2 more will be completed and delivered. After which point the plug will be pulled. Supposedly the penalty for cancelling the contract is that expensive they’ve got no choice but to continue with the first 3. As I say that is only rumour and hearsay but I can see truth in the story.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The rumour is that they’re contract bound to refurbish and deliver 3 units for acceptance before the rest of the fleet are done, so 2 more will be completed and delivered. After which point the plug will be pulled. Supposedly the penalty for cancelling the contract is that expensive they’ve got no choice but to continue with the first 3. As I say that is only rumour and hearsay but I can see truth in the story.

If this is indeed the case, then I imagine it would make sense to run the three 458/4s (one eight car out per day and one unallocated/spare) on Reading/Weybridge services for all the while the 458/5s are doing so, rather than having them sit in Bournemouth awaiting the disposal run, while the 701s are still no shows.

507 is already also done as we know, and 505 is mid works. That with 517 makes three as you say, but then a fourth has just had an order for the 460 carriage to be stripped ahead of disposal? Surely if there were no plans to continue beyond 3 then this wouldn't have happened while the 458/5s are still needed?

 

[Goldfish62]

The rumour is that they’re contract bound to refurbish and deliver 3 units for acceptance before the rest of the fleet are done, so 2 more will be completed and delivered. After which point the plug will be pulled. Supposedly the penalty for cancelling the contract is that expensive they’ve got no choice but to continue with the first 3. As I say that is only rumour and hearsay but I can see truth in the story.

That's certainly been stated elsewhere. However, isn't the 4th unit currently having its 5th coach removed ready for a trip northwards?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That's certainly been stated elsewhere. However, isn't the 4th unit currently having its 5th coach removed ready for a trip northwards?

Great minds think alike

 

[pompeyfan]

If this is indeed the case, then I imagine it would make sense to run the three 458/4s (one eight car out per day and one unallocated/spare) on Reading/Weybridge services for all the while the 458/5s are doing so, rather than having them sit in Bournemouth awaiting the disposal run, while the 701s are still no shows.

507 is already also done as we know, and 505 is mid works. That with 517 makes three as you say, but then a fourth has just had an order for the 460 carriage to be stripped ahead of disposal? Surely if there were no plans to continue beyond 3 then this wouldn't have happened while the 458/5s are still needed?

I can’t explain the 4th unit, like I say, only a rumour and hearsay. Could be one of the typical railway things where a rumour is repeated so much it becomes “fact” when it’s not true at all.

 

[444045]

U.458523 is at Bournemouth Depot having the 460 coach stripped of its interior ready for a move to Widnes.

 

[LUYMun]

Because ASLEF have to have something to complain about and so they can delay service introduction as long as possible. See also the Aventras.

Not unreasonable about that, given the 458 cab windows still look like letterbox slips...