SWR Class 458 to be retained

[swr444]

Interesting to see 458.529 + 533 still in service. Surely their time must be up soon...

8533 was OOU for about 3+ years so will have plenty of miles still

 

[Islineclear3_1]

8533 was OOU for about 3+ years so will have plenty of miles still

Fair enough

 

[mansonlo49]

Interesting to see 458.529 + 533 still in service. Surely their time must be up soon...

haven’t seen 530+535 for a while, not sure what’s going on with them

 

[nctd2306]

8535 was in service last Friday, last I heard about 8530, it was awaiting parts, I don't know if it's any closer to returning.

 

[gazr]

Anyone know what's happened to 458418? Last one I need to haulage and it's gone MIA.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Anyone know what's happened to 458418? Last one I need to haulage and it's gone MIA.

Had triggered a RailBam device due to an axel issue around June, has been at Wimbledon Park Depot since, I believe.

 

[gazr]

Had triggered a RailBam device due to an axel issue around June, has been at Wimbledon Park Depot since, I believe.

cheers. hopefully wimbledon can work it's magic.

 

[Bessie]

On a 458/4 service to Reading. Got on at Martins Heron where platform PIS displayed it as an 8 carriage SWR Arterio service. Platform announcement was the same. Is there an official re-branding of these to Arterio as well?

 

[swr444]

On a 458/4 service to Reading. Got on at Martins Heron where platform PIS displayed it as an 8 carriage SWR Arterio service. Platform announcement was the same. Is there an official re-branding of these to Arterio as well?

Probably just a programming error

 

[Goldfish62]

On a 458/4 service to Reading. Got on at Martins Heron where platform PIS displayed it as an 8 carriage SWR Arterio service. Platform announcement was the same. Is there an official re-branding of these to Arterio as well?

The 0539 from Reading this morning was a 701 instead of the usual 458/4 pair. It looks like the 701 was trapped at Reading overnight due to the signalling problems. At Waterloo it was substituted with the diagrammed 458/4 pair. So if you were on what was the 0720 from Waterloo someone obviously forgot to "untick" the Arterio announcement.

Incidentally the 0539 left Reading 7 min late, but arrived at Waterloo on time - another demonstration of the performance of the 701s.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Incidentally the 0539 left Reading 7 min late, but arrived at Waterloo on time - another demonstration of the performance on the 701s.

Nice to hear some positivity about the matter, and yes, I also acknowledge others who have commented similarly...

 

[RacsoMoquette]

The traction package is good. It is the Alstom Onyx kit as fitted to pendolino's, LU Northern line and others. Most of the other kit is pretty good also. What is not good is the Washwood Heath assembly quality, which is as about as bad as it gets. The other Juniper/Coradia fleets suffered the same issues.

How many export orders did Alstom win that were built at Washwood Heath? I recall they built eight Coradia X3 units for the Swedish Arlanda Express? Did they have the same Onyx equipment? As far as I am aware the units continue to be in service operating reliably, though will be replaced in the next few years by Stadler FLIRT trains. It is interesting how some products built at Washwood Heath at the time were pretty solid trains akin to the Class 390s 1995/96 Stock and the Coradia X3. Though products like the Coradia 1000s and Junipers were abysmal performers?

 

[NSEWonderer]

Too be fair how much money was spent on the 390 and Coradia x3? I seem to remember Virginia were very heavily involved in the 390s development hence why it was built so well to their standard.

Coradia X3s yes do use the Onix IGBT traction package system.

 

[WarrenTManager]

8536 hand back complete then donated parts to other units, sharing a road with 8403 and 8535. Awaits a tow away now.

 

[mansonlo49]

8536 hand back complete then donated parts to other units, sharing a road with 8403 and 8535. Awaits a tow away now.

so going to Long Marston soon？

 

[Siemens Staines]

8536 hand back complete then donated parts to other units, sharing a road with 8403 and 8535. Awaits a tow away now.

Is 8403 one of the units to receive parts from 8536? RTT shows 8403 back in service today for the first time since February. Of course I am assuming that this is not another allocation error, so I could be mistaken.

Realtime Trains | 2U19 0844 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside | 20/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2U19 0844 departure from London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside on 20/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bikeman78]

Because a) the 458s are cheaper to lease and b) the lease end on the 450s is (was?) before the 458s. There’s a clear cost saving to be had.

Cheaper doesn't mean better though. Retaining the 450s has operational advantages.

 

[Goldfish62]

Cheaper doesn't mean better though. Retaining the 450s has operational advantages.

Agreed. The 458/4s are non-standard and don't appear to be too reliable (the 458/5s have always been SWT/SWR's most unreliable trains).

If the 458/4s were to be retained the question is where would they operate given the restrictions on signal sighting at Portsmouth Harbour (and Waterloo?) in 12-car formation?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

If the 458/4s were to be retained the question is where would they operate given the restrictions on signal sighting at Portsmouth Harbour (and Waterloo?) in 12-car formation?

If nothing (much) has changed in the signalling aspect, and I doubt it has at either Portsmouth Harbour or Waterloo, simply due to physical constraints on the ground, then I suspect there are few (if any?) palatable solutions to your question.
I have noticed that P8 at Waterloo has acquired a co-acting departure signal, for driver related sighting issues (similar to the planned mod some years earlier in p11 in relation to 12 car 450 formations), but that in p8 was done as a result of the platform restructuring that took place in the ramp area of P7/8 in respect of the original 10 car suburban plan, and is likely only to be in relation to the operation of 12 car 450 from p8. It has to be remembered that a 12 car 458 is longer than a 12 car 450, and at the likes of Waterloo, every foot in length matters - and as such also puts more pressure on drivers of incoming trains to stop extremely accurately at the buffer stops, in order that the outgoing driver has no issues.

 

[fgwrich]

Cheaper doesn't mean better though. Retaining the 450s has operational advantages.

Of course the other reason for their leases being so cheap is that, frankly, who else would want a fleet on non standard, fairly unreliable, 27 year old 3rd rail EMUs which have been treated as Triggers Broom for the last 15 or so years. At least with the 450s, they have proven themselves to be a lot more reliable, have the weight and expertise of Siemens behind them and a part of a common fleet, even if the mileage (and associated costs) has had to be increased on them in the wake of the 701 debacle.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Of course the other reason for their leases being so cheap is that, frankly, who else would want a fleet on non standard, fairly unreliable, 27 year old 3rd rail EMUs which have been treated as Triggers Broom for the last 15 or so years. At least with the 450s, they have proven themselves to be a lot more reliable, have the weight and expertise of Siemens behind them and a part of a common fleet, even if the mileage (and associated costs) has had to be increased on them in the wake of the 701 debacle.

Nail on the head...!

 

[NSEWonderer]

Thank you everyone for the answers on 458 403; looks like I'll have to wait a while to get a picture of it to clear them... for the third time...

458403 was put into service today it seems, i i forgot to mention I heard rumors of so. Its currently running about now as according to RTT: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L48101/2025-07-20/detailed

Looked rather sorry for itself back the with a missing shoegear and burns. Had to repair quite a few equipment and Wires which was why it was out for an extended period of time. Finally back however.

It had the least work done of all the 458/4s, I believe as according to @siemit had only done about 6 weeks work before the event that landed it below for several months.

Few months ago in medi-bay.

 

[Bikeman78]

Of course the other reason for their leases being so cheap is that, frankly, who else would want a fleet on non standard, fairly unreliable, 27 year old 3rd rail EMUs which have been treated as Triggers Broom for the last 15 or so years. At least with the 450s, they have proven themselves to be a lot more reliable, have the weight and expertise of Siemens behind them and a part of a common fleet, even if the mileage (and associated costs) has had to be increased on them in the wake of the 701 debacle.

Quite. No sane organisation would sign up for a less reliable, less versatile fleet. But this is SWR so no doubt the pen is already hovering over the contract.

 

[ollie2391]

is 8530 offlease? haven't seen it in service for a while

 

[NSEWonderer]

is 8530 offlease? haven't seen it in service for a while

Last I knew it had some relays taken to repair 458412 around late June, it also around May donated a PA handset or two to its sister train 458535

 

[bb21]

Is 8403 one of the units to receive parts from 8536? RTT shows 8403 back in service today for the first time since February. Of course I am assuming that this is not another allocation error, so I could be mistaken.

Realtime Trains | 2U19 0844 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside | 20/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2U19 0844 departure from London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside on 20/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yes very much, together with 8412.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2025 ==

Last I knew it had some relays taken to repair 458412 around late June, it also around May donated a PA handset or two to its sister train 458535

Correct, also a handset taken for 8422, been stopped for a while now but I don't think it's off lease although don't quote me on it.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Whilst their numbers in daily passenger use have been dwindling of late, today is the first weekday morning that no 458/5s are in service. All three unit diagrams are being covered by 455s. I do hope that the 0620 Waterloo - Reading is not a 4-car 455 next week. With the 0650 not running, the 0620 is the only train to Reading at the height of the morning peak.

 

[swr444]

Whilst their numbers in daily passenger use have been dwindling of late, today is the first weekday morning that no 458/5s are in service. All three unit diagrams are being covered by 455s. I do hope that the 0620 Waterloo - Reading is not a 4-car 455 next week. With the 0650 not running, the 0620 is the only train to Reading at the height of the morning peak.

It’s booked an 8-458/4 next week

 

[Siemens Staines]

It’s booked an 8-458/4 next week

Thank you for your reply, that is good to know. 8-car 458 is what this service was booked for in the May LTP diagrams but so far it has always been STP modified to 5-car 458

 

[Goldfish62]

Thank you for your reply, that is good to know. 8-car 458 is what this service was booked for in the May LTP diagrams but so far it has always been STP modified to 5-car 458

And quite often 4-car 455!