SWR Class 458 speculation

[Goldfish62]

The new timetable seems to have thrown up enough surplus 458s given that all the Reading peak extras have been removed. Maybe they'll start going away for refurb soon.

 

[TEW]

The new timetable seems to have thrown up enough surplus 458s given that all the Reading peak extras have been removed. Maybe they'll start going away for refurb soon.

Unlikely immediately with the prospect of more 707s leaving the franchise without any 701s being in traffic.

 

[221101 Voyager]

The new timetable seems to have thrown up enough surplus 458s given that all the Reading peak extras have been removed. Maybe they'll start going away for refurb soon.

Hopefully, they might come to Wolverton Works!

 

[43096]

Hopefully, they might come to Wolverton Works!

They’re not going to Wolverton. It’s already been stated that the 458 refurbishments are being done by Alstom at Widnes.

 

[221101 Voyager]

They’re not going to Wolverton. It’s already been stated that the 458 refurbishments are being done by Alstom at Widnes.

Ah, I see! Thanks for that.

 

[Nym]

Hopefully, they might come to Wolverton Works!

Why would anyone want Gemini to get more work at Wolverton?

 

[JonathanH]

Why would anyone want Gemini to get more work at Wolverton?

The workforce of Gemini presumably want the work?

 

[Nym]

The workforce of Gemini presumably want the work?

The actual workforce will be majority contractors who will simply move onto the next project with someone else.

The management and engineering at Gemini seem to have gotten off very lightly considering.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder if some may be refurbished but then re-enter service on the Reading and co. services for an interim period until they can be displaced, a little similar to the Class 170s in operation with WMT under EMR branding, although I know that a refurbishment will take it out of service for considerably longer than a revinyling.

 

[Goldfish62]

Unlikely immediately with the prospect of more 707s leaving the franchise without any 701s being in traffic.

That'll be for the DfT to decide. Southeastern can wait for however long it takes to receive the 707s as there's no pressing need for their transfer. However, SWR need upgraded rolling stock for Portsmouth as per the erstwhile franchise commitment. It would make sense to me to press ahead with the 458 project ASAP.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

However, SWR need upgraded rolling stock for Portsmouth as per the erstwhile franchise commitment. It would make sense to me to press ahead with the 458 project ASAP.

Don’t forget the franchise commitment that was in has been terminated to be replaced by the new NRC signed last week.

Ultimately both the redeployment of 707s to South Eastern and re-use of 458s will both be subject to when the DfT want it to happen - I would have expected the biggest push from the DfT would be to focus staff training efforts on getting the 701s into traffic.

 

[MatthewRead]

I enquired about this a few weeks ago and a guard told me that most of the 707's are staying until sufficient 701's are in service to displace them.

 

[RobShipway]

I wonder if some may be refurbished but then re-enter service on the Reading and co. services for an interim period until they can be displaced, a little similar to the Class 170s in operation with WMT under EMR branding, although I know that a refurbishment will take it out of service for considerably longer than a revinyling.

Once they have been refurbished, they are more likely going to be running on the Portsmouth fasts after having been tested. But this will not happen, until the class 701 units start operating on the Reading route.

The only other possibility would be if there is enough class 450 & Class 455 units spare to run on the Reading route, such that the class 458's can go off lease.

 

[43096]

I enquired about this a few weeks ago and a guard told me that most of the 707's are staying until sufficient 701's are in service to displace them.

Because guards/drivers/dispatchers are always experts on fleet deployment issues, obviously...

 

[CBlue]

Because guards/drivers/dispatchers are always experts on fleet deployment issues, obviously...

Ah yes, a swr guard that also manages fleets.

 

[Goldfish62]

I enquired about this a few weeks ago and a guard told me that most of the 707's are staying until sufficient 701's are in service to displace them.

That makes perfect sense because it's not as if Southeastern have any pressing need for the 707s.

 

[JonathanH]

That makes perfect sense because it's not as if Southeastern have any pressing need for the 707s.

They need 707s to start 465/466 withdrawals though.

 

[Goldfish62]

They need 707s to start 465/466 withdrawals though.

But who says 465/466 withdrawal is pressing? It's only going to happen to give the 707s somewhere to go rather than storage.

The DfT will decide what moves where and when.

 

[RobShipway]

But who says 465/466 withdrawal is pressing? It's only going to happen to give the 707s somewhere to go rather than storage.

The DfT will decide what moves where and when.

They need 707s to start 465/466 withdrawals though.

There is many other routes around the country that have stock on them that are a lot older than the class 465/466 units, even if they have had a refresh recently and/or have had other power supplies add to them.

 

[JonathanH]

There is many other routes around the country that have stock on them that are a lot older than the class 465/466 units, even if they have had a refresh recently and/or have had other power supplies add to them.

On the other hand, if the 321s are going for scrap, then the 465s / 466s which were the next order shouldn't be far behind.

However, this isn't wholesale fleet replacement, it appears that what is happening here is that there are some units in the fleet which are more unreliable than the others and SE want shot of them to concentrate on the ones which are in better condition.

I'm not sure what that means for the removal of 707s vs 458s though.

 

[D365]

When was it decided for Class 707s to be a Cl465/466 replacement? Unless plans have changed, I was under the impression that the 707s are transferring for additional capacity.

 

[RobShipway]

On the other hand, if the 321s are going for scrap, then the 465s / 466s which were the next order shouldn't be far behind.

However, this isn't wholesale fleet replacement, it appears that what is happening here is that there are some units in the fleet which are more unreliable than the others and SE want shot of them to concentrate on the ones which are in better condition.

I'm not sure what that means for the removal of 707s vs 458s though.

When was it decided for Class 707s to be a Cl465/466 replacement? Unless plans have changed, I was under the impression that the 707s are transferring for additional capacity.

Like D365 I thought that the class 707's where being taken on for extra capacity, which at the moment is currently not required.

However, if they are to replace class 465 units then it is likely that it would be the first built units which where made by Metro Cammell. These where original 465/2 units, but since extensive refurbishment back in 2005 became 465/9 units. The other class 465 units having been been built by BREL/ABB which have since 2007 had Hitachi Traction equipment. I believe that the 465/9's are still running the Metro Cammell traction equipment.

You also have the issue I believe that the class 4650/0 and 465/1 are owned by Eversholt Rail Group and the 465/2(/9)'s are owned by Angel Trains. Now I am not sure who owns the class 707 fleet, but let's say for arguments sake it is Eversholt Rail, then the 30 5-car Class 707's would be to replace the 34 4-car class 465/9. I believe though that would still leave the 16 class 465/2's which are also owned by Angel Trains to be replaced by a fleet owned by Eversholt Rail.

 

[Energy]

Now I am not sure who owns the class 707 fleet, but let's say for arguments sake it is Eversholt Rail,

Its Angel Trains.

 

[Goldfish62]

When was it decided for Class 707s to be a Cl465/466 replacement? Unless plans have changed, I was under the impression that the 707s are transferring for additional capacity.

Well, Southeastern themselves have said they'll be replacing some Networkers, so for me that's pretty convincing!

As for additional capacity I'd certainly be interested to know where that might be needed anytime soon!

 

[D365]

Well, Southeastern themselves have said they'll be replacing some Networkers, so for me that's pretty convincing!

As for additional capacity I'd certainly be interested to know where that might be needed anytime soon!

Ah so plans have changed then.

Several of my EMR and CrossCountry trains this month have been (covid) full!

 

[Goldfish62]

Ah so plans have changed then.

Several of my EMR and CrossCountry trains this month have been (covid) full!

Ah so plans have changed then.

Several of my EMR and CrossCountry trains this month have been (covid) full!

South East London isn't known for its large leisure and tourism flows! All the capacity has always been provided in the peaks. Obviously that is not now needed anytime soon.