SWML upgrade to 125mph?

[SouthCentral10]

If the South Wester Main Line were to change over from 3rd rail to overhead electrification, would it be feasible to upgrade tbe line speed from 100mph to 125mph on certain sections.

I see no reason why it couldn't do so between Woking and Eastleigh as the line is pretty straight and I think there's are the sections where it's currently 100mph.

(Obviously I know this would be very unlikely to happen in this century.)

 

[swt_passenger]

This has been suggested before, the main problem to overcome is that most of the Basingstoke to Southampton route is a mixed use two track railway. So trains running at 125 would always be catching up the regular container trains...

 

[AM9]

If the South Wester Main Line were to change over from 3rd rail to overhead electrification, would it be feasible to upgrade tbe line speed from 100mph to 125mph on certain sections.

I see no reason why it couldn't do so between Woking and Eastleigh as the line is pretty straight and I think there's are the sections where it's currently 100mph.

(Obviously I know this would be very unlikely to happen in this century.)

Evven if every metre on the distance between Eastleigh and Woking was covered at 125mph, (no run up or slow down), no PSRs in that 125mph stretch and ignoring the 75mph freights and stoppers, it would make less than 6 minutes time saving. Hardly worth the expense or disruption.

 

[joncombe]

I think installing OHLE between Reading and Southampton was looked at as part of the "Electric Spine" project, which I think (stand to be corrected....) has now been abandoned or at least delayed. If it does happen I hope OHLE also goes to Waterloo and that might allow an increase in speed. At least between Woking and Basingstoke the line is indeed very straight, it's 4 tracks so the fast trains don't get stuck behind the stoppers (I think all the intermediate stations between Woking and Basingstoke also only have platforms on the "slow lines"). It is not as busy, but once you get to Basingstoke the route on to Southampton is mostly only 2 track and there are also XC services and freight services to fit in between the SWR services.

So I don't think it's very practical between Basingstoke and Southampton but I do think it would be possible between Woking and Basingstoke, but whether it is worth it is another matter. I think there are peak trains non-stop Waterloo to WInchester for example, which would likely benefit more. I think there are also some non-stop Waterloo to Andover, too?

 

[JonathanH]

I think there are also some non-stop Waterloo to Andover, too?

No chance - the Salisbury / Exeter services are an important part of the provision of services to Basingstoke (and indeed between Woking and Basingstoke).

 

[PTR 444]

In another thread, I suggested building a new pair of overhead electrified tracks between Basingstoke and Southampton to enable trains to reach speeds of 125mph and reduce the freight bottleneck, although it turns out that much of the existing route can be four-tracked online. Discussion is here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nd-southampton-and-electrify-overhead.201621/

If you four-track the line between Basingstoke and Soton, you can have local services and freight using the outer tracks, and express passenger services using the inner tracks. This would then make it viable to convert the third rail to overhead, so maximum speeds can increase from 90mph as it is now to 125mph. Converting Farnborough Main - Eastleigh to OHLE would be the best place to start as the line either side of Basingstoke is largely straight with plenty of potential for reaching maximum speed. You could then replace the 444s and 450s with new Javelin-style rolling stock capable of running on both third rail and OHLE, which would give the Waterloo - Weymouth journey more of an "Intercity" vibe.

 

[JonathanH]

You could then replace the 444s and 450s with new Javelin-style rolling stock capable of running on both third rail and OHLE, which would give the Waterloo - Weymouth journey more of an "Intercity" vibe.

Why is that necessary? There is a balance to be struck between capacity - eg platform space at Waterloo - and an "Intercity" vibe. 444s use space pretty effectively - having a streamlined front end is not a good use of space.

You might notice that the route to Dorset once had an "Intercity" vibe - the reality is that the journey length doesn't really lend itself to that being necessary - the most recent change against that vibe being the fitting of 'leather' 2+2 seats in first class.

 

[Meerkat]

I think the important question is “what are you trying to achieve?”
You can’t run more trains on the inner bit so it won’t increase frequency.
And you don’t want to attract more custom as you don’t have the capacity for it.
Also even the fastest trains stop too often to take much benefit.

 

[cle]

Why is that necessary? There is a balance to be struck between capacity - eg platform space at Waterloo - and an "Intercity" vibe. 444s use space pretty effectively - having a streamlined front end is not a good use of space.

You might notice that the route to Dorset once had an "Intercity" vibe - the reality is that the journey length doesn't really lend itself to that being necessary - the most recent change against that vibe being the fitting of 'leather' 2+2 seats in first class.

It's longer, and serves more population and cities than the 'inter city' ride to Norwich (which is being EMU-ed, yes) - the issue is the coastal trundle when services become coastway in style, even the fasts.

 

[nlogax]

You could then replace the 444s and 450s with new Javelin-style rolling stock capable of running on both third rail and OHLE

No need. You could just retrofit the 444s with pantographs and AC equipment which (judging by 350 / 450 history if they're the same under the skin) would be a relatively straightforward thing.

 

[JonathanH]

It's longer, and serves more population and cities than the 'inter city' ride to Norwich (which is being EMU-ed, yes) - the issue is the coastal trundle when services become coastway in style, even the fasts.

Apart from first class and a buffet counter, the 745 units used to Norwich now are more like the 'local' 755 units than 800s so I don't know what argument you are trying to make. I'm not sure that 745s really have an 'intercity' vibe about them - they are 100mph long distance EMUs just like 444s.

 

[joncombe]

No chance - the Salisbury / Exeter services are an important part of the provision of services to Basingstoke (and indeed between Woking and Basingstoke).

Yes there aren't any now, but there certainly were a few years ago, though they only run on Sunday afternoon/evening for some reason. Waterloo, a pick up stop at Clapham Junction then non-stop from there to Andover.