SWML Disruption

[desk_wizard]

After spending an hour tonight on a train slowly grinding its way between Clapham Junction and Surbiton, due to a broken down train at Berrylands, I thought I would start this thread to track disruption between London Waterloo and Woking (as the first main junction) as the last couple of weeks have had some serious disruption, and yet there hasn't been a thread about it, as far as I can see.
London Waterloo is the busiest station in the country, as we all know, and the amount of disrupted journeys because of these issues, especially in the morning or evening peak, has caused an immense amount of inconvenience to thousands of commuters on a regular basis.
Tonight, my train got to my destination 76 minutes late. Obviously there will be a Delay Repay claim made. These things happen, and I do accept there will always be a certain level of disruption. But are there bigger issues happening on the route? How much of it is down to SWR and how much is down to National Rail? This is something I would appreciate knowing more about.
I hear rumours that SWR have cut back on rolling stock maintenance, particularly at certain depots. But I also hear rumours that Network Rail has trimmed back on signalling engineers and permanent way staff. So it isn't clear to me where the blame really lies, or if any of this is actually an issue or what? Also, if there are still effects from the franchise change or the Waterloo blockade? Would be interested to hear from others what they think about this.

 

[infobleep]

After spending an hour tonight on a train slowly grinding its way between Clapham Junction and Surbiton, due to a broken down train at Berrylands, I thought I would start this thread to track disruption between London Waterloo and Woking (as the first main junction) as the last couple of weeks have had some serious disruption, and yet there hasn't been a thread about it, as far as I can see.
London Waterloo is the busiest station in the country, as we all know, and the amount of disrupted journeys because of these issues, especially in the morning or evening peak, has caused an immense amount of inconvenience to thousands of commuters on a regular basis.
Tonight, my train got to my destination 76 minutes late. Obviously there will be a Delay Repay claim made. These things happen, and I do accept there will always be a certain level of disruption. But are there bigger issues happening on the route? How much of it is down to SWR and how much is down to National Rail? This is something I would appreciate knowing more about.
I hear rumours that SWR have cut back on rolling stock maintenance, particularly at certain depots. But I also hear rumours that Network Rail has trimmed back on signalling engineers and permanent way staff. So it isn't clear to me where the blame really lies, or if any of this is actually an issue or what? Also, if there are still effects from the franchise change or the Waterloo blockade? Would be interested to hear from others what they think about this.

I think the reason for a lack of a thread has been that it's forum policy not to discuss these so much these days as it goes round in circles.

What surprised about tonight's disruption was that so many trains were starting from Waterloo. Usually during disruption they start trains from Basingstoke or Woking and Guildford. Given the disruption started around 16:00, just would have expected more terminating and starting short of services.

Various Basingstoke stoppers that run fast to Surbiton were having the Surbtion stop removed but rather unusually the 17:25 Waterloo to Alton, had Surbtion inserted! I can't remember the last time that ever occurred. Someone obviously saw merit in a stopping that train, rather than the Basingstoke stoppers, that usually stop. Fair enough.

 

[Bald Rick]

Train failure at Berrylands. Rather an awkward one too.

 

[infobleep]

Train failure at Berrylands. Rather an awkward one too.

One thing they didn't get right today was the length of train prediction. They siad delays of up to 60 minutes hut I've seen Quo e a few trains delayed for longer than that. Some people are saying delays of 2 to 3 hours. I don't know if they are exaggerating as I've not checked their perticular trains.

 

[Antman]

Two hours or so for friends.

 

[TEW]

Various Basingstoke stoppers that run fast to Surbiton were having the Surbtion stop removed but rather unusually the 17:25 Waterloo to Alton, had Surbtion inserted! I can't remember the last time that ever occurred. Someone obviously saw merit in a stopping that train, rather than the Basingstoke stoppers, that usually stop. Fair enough.

Inserted to pick up the passengers who had been stuck on the broken down train, which was the 1525 Alton.

 

[nuts & bolts]

After spending an hour tonight on a train slowly grinding its way between Clapham Junction and Surbiton, due to a broken down train at Berrylands, I thought I would start this thread to track disruption between London Waterloo and Woking (as the first main junction) as the last couple of weeks have had some serious disruption, and yet there hasn't been a thread about it, as far as I can see.
London Waterloo is the busiest station in the country, as we all know, and the amount of disrupted journeys because of these issues, especially in the morning or evening peak, has caused an immense amount of inconvenience to thousands of commuters on a regular basis.
Tonight, my train got to my destination 76 minutes late. Obviously there will be a Delay Repay claim made. These things happen, and I do accept there will always be a certain level of disruption. But are there bigger issues happening on the route? How much of it is down to SWR and how much is down to National Rail? This is something I would appreciate knowing more about.
I hear rumours that SWR have cut back on rolling stock maintenance, particularly at certain depots. But I also hear rumours that Network Rail has trimmed back on signalling engineers and permanent way staff. So it isn't clear to me where the blame really lies, or if any of this is actually an issue or what? Also, if there are still effects from the franchise change or the Waterloo blockade? Would be interested to hear from others what they think about this.

Nothing to do with maintenance schedules I can assure you, regarding this particular train failure!

 

[pompeyfan]

All of the issues that are causing delays have been picked up in the report that was released recently. It’s not a sudden decline in performance.

Last nights breakdown appears to be due to the leading unit losing shoegear, which then took out the main res compressor.

Last week there was a similar issue at Batersea Flyover where a diesel unit allegedly hit something, which caused the sanding pipe to come loose and short out the juice, trapping the diesel in between 2 Desiro units. All 3 trains were trapped for around 3 hours, the Desiros lost the use of the toilets and HVAC. The diesel was a bit more bareable being self powered.

In the above incident a rescue thunderbird would have worked, but you’d need it to be able to connect with sprinters, Desiro classics, 455/456s, 458s and 707s. That’s at least 3 mechanical connections.

In last nights situation a rescue loco wouldn’t have worked as the brakes were welded on so the unit wouldn’t have been able to be dragged.

There was a contingency plan last night for the passengers on the failed unit but they managed to pump up the air before they enacted the plan. Last night was further compounded by the fact the down fast was blocked from new Malden to surbiton with the break down shifted to surbiton platform 3, meaning all services were using the loop at surbiton for at least an hour.

As has been previously mentioned. When the WICC was moved from Waterloo raft to Basingstoke ROC, many people took voluntary redundancies as they didn’t want to commute from east London/Essex to Basingstoke, so lots of experience was lost.

Route knowledge or lack of diversionary routes also caused a major issue last night, and finally a lack of traincrew in general, with lots of people on annual leave and off sick or off track meaning spares couldn’t be mobilised as they’d already been launched.

 

[hwl]

In the above incident a rescue thunderbird would have worked, but you’d need it to be able to connect with sprinters, Desiro classics, 455/456s, 458s and 707s. That’s at least 3 mechanical connections.

Just 3

458s were retrofitted with Dellners during the 5 car conversion works.

455/456/442
444/450/458/707/701
158/159

Will be 2 in few years time

Edit: Oops forgot about the 442s return no including Dellner conversion

 

[pompeyfan]

Just 3

458s were retrofitted with Dellners during the 5 car conversion works.

455/456
444/450/458/707/701
158/159

Will be 2 in few years time

I suppose for a 5 mph drag it wouldn’t need to electrically couple, as long as the stranded units could get break release it wouldn’t really matter. A diesel thunderbird would have been useful during the cold weather where the 3rd rail ice over.

 

[hwl]

I suppose for a 5 mph drag it wouldn’t need to electrically couple, as long as the stranded units could get break release it wouldn’t really matter. A diesel thunderbird would have been useful during the cold weather where the 3rd rail ice over.

Exactly one reason for the popularity of Dellners enabling brake control as the air pipes are through the coupler.

 

[lewisf]

We’re now on day 2 of disruption. Track inspection between Wimbledon and Surbiton (likely related to yesterday) and a broken down train at Queenstown Road.

 

[pompeyfan]

We’re now on day 2 of disruption. Track inspection between Wimbledon and Surbiton (likely related to yesterday) and a broken down train at Queenstown Road.

Not quite. Overnight engineering works did quite go to plan. Believe a tamper managed to rip a couple of cables.

 

[infobleep]

Inserted to pick up the passengers who had been stuck on the broken down train, which was the 1525 Alton.

Oh wow. For some reason I had assumed it was a slow train that had been stuck at Berrylands as the station couldn't be surved. I guess if fast line trains are having to use the slow line, that is reason enough not to stop there.

On the wider point of disruption, Queenstown Road wouldn't be stopped at again this morning. That seems to be a semi regular amongst the disruption.

 

[infobleep]

All of the issues that are causing delays have been picked up in the report that was released recently. It’s not a sudden decline in performance.

Last nights breakdown appears to be due to the leading unit losing shoegear, which then took out the main res compressor.

Last week there was a similar issue at Batersea Flyover where a diesel unit allegedly hit something, which caused the sanding pipe to come loose and short out the juice, trapping the diesel in between 2 Desiro units. All 3 trains were trapped for around 3 hours, the Desiros lost the use of the toilets and HVAC. The diesel was a bit more bareable being self powered.

In the above incident a rescue thunderbird would have worked, but you’d need it to be able to connect with sprinters, Desiro classics, 455/456s, 458s and 707s. That’s at least 3 mechanical connections.

In last nights situation a rescue loco wouldn’t have worked as the brakes were welded on so the unit wouldn’t have been able to be dragged.

There was a contingency plan last night for the passengers on the failed unit but they managed to pump up the air before they enacted the plan. Last night was further compounded by the fact the down fast was blocked from new Malden to surbiton with the break down shifted to surbiton platform 3, meaning all services were using the loop at surbiton for at least an hour.

As has been previously mentioned. When the WICC was moved from Waterloo raft to Basingstoke ROC, many people took voluntary redundancies as they didn’t want to commute from east London/Essex to Basingstoke, so lots of experience was lost.

Route knowledge or lack of diversionary routes also caused a major issue last night, and finally a lack of traincrew in general, with lots of people on annual leave and off sick or off track meaning spares couldn’t be mobilised as they’d already been launched.

That explains why trains weren't being turned out short I guess.

Also it explains why the shift from Berrylands to Surbiton in the Twitter disruption notices. I thought perhaps they were just being more generalised in later updates.

I personally prefer the model of starting annual leave when you join a company do people aren't all using it up at the end of the same annual leave year. I appricate others don't see enough merit in this. I have worked under that system though and I liked it.

 

[pompeyfan]

Oh wow. For some reason I had assumed it was a slow train that had been stuck at Berrylands as the station couldn't be surved. I guess if fast line trains are having to use the slow line, that is reason enough not to stop there.

On the wider point of disruption, Queenstown Road wouldn't be stopped at again this morning. That seems to be a semi regular amongst the disruption.

If there’s issues at Vauxhall, trains on the up main fast will be crossed over to the up Windsor at Queenstown Road. Pulling the call there keeps stuff moving.

 

[Stigy]

Oh wow. For some reason I had assumed it was a slow train that had been stuck at Berrylands as the station couldn't be surved. I guess if fast line trains are having to use the slow line, that is reason enough not to stop there.

On the wider point of disruption, Queenstown Road wouldn't be stopped at again this morning. That seems to be a semi regular amongst the disruption.

That train may have been on the slow anyway, as being a semi-fast service it would have been stopping at Surbiton. Having said that, as far as I’m aware the crossover from fast to slow lines for these trains is usually literally right in the approach from Surbiton station?

 

[pompeyfan]

That explains why trains weren't being turned out short I guess.

Also it explains why the shift from Berrylands to Surbiton in the Twitter disruption notices. I thought perhaps they were just being more generalised in later updates.

I personally prefer the model of starting annual leave when you join a company do people aren't all using it up at the end of the same annual leave year. I appricate others don't see enough merit in this. I have worked under that system though and I liked it.

I’m not sure about other TOCs but leave is allocated with the exception of a couple of days to use as and when depot quotas allow. However there was a huge influx of guards and drivers this year. Holiday isn’t usually allowed/advised to be taken during training. Let’s say a group of 5 guards all joined in July for the same depot, they’re then not productive until October/November. That means 5 people have December to end of March to use nearly a whole years amount of holiday.

 

[infobleep]

I’m not sure about other TOCs but leave is allocated with the exception of a couple of days to use as and when depot quotas allow. However there was a huge influx of guards and drivers this year. Holiday isn’t usually allowed/advised to be taken during training. Let’s say a group of 5 guards all joined in July for the same depot, they’re then not productive until October/November. That means 5 people have December to end of March to use nearly a whole years amount of holiday.

Of course if their annual leave ended in July they would have April to June to use it as well.

 

[Bigfoot]

I know there are accounting reasons why companies have set dates for holidays. I know it makes things simpler if you have you have holiday year alligned with financial year.

The other half tried explaining it to me haha.

 

[lewisf]

That train may have been on the slow anyway, as being a semi-fast service it would have been stopping at Surbiton. Having said that, as far as I’m aware the crossover from fast to slow lines for these trains is usually literally right in the approach from Surbiton station?

It broke down on the down fast with the first couple of coaches level with the platform at Berrylands, everything was having to pass on the down slow.

 

[desk_wizard]

Thanks, I will have a look for that report mentioned by pompeyfan.

Lots of other useful info here, certainly food for thought. Put my Delay Repay claim in for yesterday, received a message that they expect to pay in three weeks because of the volume of recent claims.
Also, wasn't too impressed with the joint apology from Andy Mellors and Andy Thomas. Feels a bit grudging and desultory.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks, I will have a look for that report mentioned by pompeyfan.

Lots of other useful info here, certainly food for thought. Put my Delay Repay claim in for yesterday, received a message that they expect to pay in three weeks because of the volume of recent claims.
Also, wasn't too impressed with the joint apology from Andy Mellors and Andy Thomas. Feels a bit grudging and desultory.

Unfortunately the link at the end of the apology, to the delay repay, didn't work. It gave a 404 error.

I know people are human and we all make mistakes. However the people who took to Twitter weren't impressed by this on top of everything else.

We're sorry
Joint apology to passengers from Andy Thomas, Route Managing Director for Network Rail, and Andy Mellors, Managing Director for South Western Railway
We are very sorry for the disruption to your journeys yesterday (Monday, 25 February) and this morning (Tuesday, 26 February).

Monday’s disruption was caused by a train hitting an obstruction at Berrylands in south west London.

This disruption worsened following a subsequent points problem at Vauxhall in south London earlier this morning (26 February).

Many of you will have had delayed and crowded journeys as a result of these incidents.

We know it’s not the service you deserve, and we are working hard to resolve these issues as quickly as possible.

If your journey was delayed by 15 minutes or more, you can claim delay repay compensation:delayrepay.southwesternrailway.com/

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/apology

The link is now working, which is good.