SW Post-2018 timetable

[GW43125]

SW have, earlier this week, released their proposed timetable; which would be active from December 2018. There now follows a three-month consultation period, running until mid-December.

The timetables are available from https://www.southwesternrailway.com/contact-and-help/timetable-consultation as Excel spreadsheets.

Most notable changes include:

• Reading and Windsor each go 4tph all day Monday-Saturday. All Reading trains run via Richmond, Windsor is a 2&2 split between semi fast via Richmond and Semi Fast via Hounslow.
• Waterloo-Weybridge via Hounslow is split into Virginia Water-Weybridge and Waterloo-Twickenham via Hounslow.
• Waterloo-Weymouth becomes only hourly, the semi-fast path now being taken up by the new Portsmouth-Weymouth service south of Southampton; and a Waterloo-Southampton north of Southampton. Consequently, six stations South of Bournemouth lose their off-peak service to Waterloo; Holton Heath and Beaulieu Road lose ALL direct services to London. This gives faster journey times for longer-distance customers at the expense of those at smaller stations.

What's everyone's opinions of these? I personally am still slightly annoyed we're still not getting Reading trains calling at Vauxhall, but 4tph can only be a good thing surely?

 

[DPQ]

Having timetables in Excel format is very unprofessional.

Not everybody has 'BRFACE3' font , mobile devices in particular. (needed for split/join/next column etc.)

As someone who often plays with timetables, it wouldn't have been that difficult to make them pdf...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Already being discussed here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ded-to-first-mtr.123105/page-169#post-3142403

And most people think they're rubbish.

 

[30907]

6 stations South of Bournemouth lose their off-peak service to Waterloo; Holton Heath and Beaulieu Road lose ALL direct services to London.

It's 4 stations only as the xx12 semi fast terminates at Poole.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Oh help, Farnham and Aldershot are losing about two thirds of through London services,

 

[30907]

Oh help, Farnham and Aldershot are losing about two thirds of through London services,

Where do you find that? Looks very little changed to me apart from the new Guildford-Farnham shuttle.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Where do you find that? Looks very little changed to me apart from the new Guildford-Farnham shuttle.

And worthless Guildford - Farnham shuttle.

If someone actually did a bit of thinking and got NR to install a crossover between the down line & up line, the London side of Farnham level crossing you could then actually incorporate the Ascot - Guildford service into it by reducing the generous 20+ minute turnaround time at Ascot, removing the 4 or 5' wait at Camberley along with the 15' turnaround time at Aldershot, send it down to Farnham where the driver changes ends in the up platform and then goes back to Guildford and still be the same time back in Guildford.

 

[randompixel]

Oh help, Farnham and Aldershot are losing about two thirds of through London services,

Look at the Arr/Dep times at Woking - potentially in different columns. You should see they're split but they look like the same service.

Columns AK + AQ in the "To London" sheet for example.

 

[TheWalrus]

Interesting reading only looked at West of England so far. I thought everything had to stop at Pinhoe and Cranbrook? Still a decent improvement though.

 

[[.n]]

I am totally unimpressed that SWR are screwing over passengers on the Weymouth line, especially as First have a monopoly on transport in the area. Other potential train routes would be GWR - and those are absolutely appalling and frankly unusable for serious travel. Coupled with First buses screwing over passengers in Weymouth/Dorchester/Bridport/Yeovil/Axminister other withdrawal of services.

Punctuality of services has plummeted to zero for me since SWR took over - give I take at least 2 SWR services a day (sometimes more), to have only had ONE be on time so far shows that lack of management. On board and station staff have been great (as they always have been) but the new senior management is rubbish

 

[TEW]

And worthless Guildford - Farnham shuttle.

If someone actually did a bit of thinking and got NR to install a crossover between the down line & up line, the London side of Farnham level crossing you could then actually incorporate the Ascot - Guildford service into it by reducing the generous 20+ minute turnaround time at Ascot, removing the 4 or 5' wait at Camberley along with the 15' turnaround time at Aldershot, send it down to Farnham where the driver changes ends in the up platform and then goes back to Guildford and still be the same time back in Guildford.

The Guildford-Farnham service is one of the better ideas in my opinion. There are normally more people getting off a Guildford-Ascot service and changing for the Alton train than remaining on board. The current 4 minute connection is not that reliable either, all it takes is a slight delay to train coming in from Guildford and the connection is missed, with a 30 minute wait in Aldershot the outcome. The connections between the Guildford-Farnham and Aldershot-Ascot service are not brilliant in the proposed timetable though. Coming from Guildford there is a 22 minute wait at Aldershot, which is too long, whilst coming from Ascot it is only 4 minutes, which is too short.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Like I said the easiest method would be to install a crossover at Farnham and then you can integrate it with the Ascot service and the journey time wouldn't be any longer than now.

 

[30907]

I am totally unimpressed that SWR are screwing over passengers on the Weymouth line

Is there such a demand for travel from Upwey, Moreton, Holton Heath and Hamworthy to Winchester and London as to justify running 2×444 every hour to Weymouth?
I agree I am not convinced by an all stations Pompey to Weymouth but Portsmouth to Bournemouth seems sensible (South Central ran through from London not so long ago...)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is there such a demand for travel from Upwey, Moreton, Holton Heath and Hamworthy to Winchester and London as to justify running 2×444 every hour to Weymouth?
I agree I am not convinced by an all stations Pompey to Weymouth but Portsmouth to Bournemouth seems sensible (South Central ran through from London not so long ago...)

Would make use of that lovely little bay platform at Bournemouth too. I wish that resumed regular service.

 

[TEW]

Like I said the easiest method would be to install a crossover at Farnham and then you can integrate it with the Ascot service and the journey time wouldn't be any longer than now.

Perhaps if we ask Network Rail to install it now it will be in by the end of the franchise in 2024!

 

[[.n]]

Is there such a demand for travel from Upwey, Moreton, Holton Heath and Hamworthy to Winchester and London as to justify running 2×444 every hour to Weymouth?
I agree I am not convinced by an all stations Pompey to Weymouth but Portsmouth to Bournemouth seems sensible (South Central ran through from London not so long ago...)

In answer to your question, then I would say yes, certainly in the mornings - schools, work, etc. throughout the day from what I've observed, also reasonable usage. If any stop could be dropped its Winchester - doesn't connect with anything useful at all on the way to London (XC is at Bournemouth/Southampton, Southern is at Southampton)

 

[nw1]

The Guildford-Farnham service is one of the better ideas in my opinion. There are normally more people getting off a Guildford-Ascot service and changing for the Alton train than remaining on board. The current 4 minute connection is not that reliable either, all it takes is a slight delay to train coming in from Guildford and the connection is missed, with a 30 minute wait in Aldershot the outcome. The connections between the Guildford-Farnham and Aldershot-Ascot service are not brilliant in the proposed timetable though. Coming from Guildford there is a 22 minute wait at Aldershot, which is too long, whilst coming from Ascot it is only 4 minutes, which is too short.

I think this may have come up somewhere else recently, but could you even change the pattern so you have the Guildford Farnham shuttle together with the London-Alton service splitting at Aldershot and half going up to Ascot, allowing a regular through service from Camberley-London? Would still mean the end of Guildford-Camberley through journeys though, which might be an issue.

 

[TEW]

I think this may have come up somewhere else recently, but could you even change the pattern so you have the Guildford Farnham shuttle together with the London-Alton service splitting at Aldershot and half going up to Ascot, allowing a regular through service from Camberley-London? Would still mean the end of Guildford-Camberley through journeys though, which might be an issue.

It would only work in that direction though. There wouldn't be a way for an Ascot to Aldershot service to combine with an Alton to Waterloo one without some shunting at Aldershot. One the thing the proposed timetable has done is made an effort to have sensible connections at Ash Vale between the Waterloo to Alton trains and the Aldershot to Ascot ones. That is probably the best way to serve London to Camberley within the current restraints of the infrastructure.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Lots of my school mates live in Camberley and they often have to drive to Farnborough Main to access London.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there such a demand for travel from Upwey, Moreton, Holton Heath and Hamworthy to Winchester and London as to justify running 2×444 every hour to Weymouth?
I agree I am not convinced by an all stations Pompey to Weymouth but Portsmouth to Bournemouth seems sensible (South Central ran through from London not so long ago...)

They might as well just break the 'new' service at Poole, and stick the Poole to Weymouth leg back onto the end of the planned "shortened" Weymouth service. If that was done there'd be exactly the same number of trains running about overall, just that the Waterloo - Poole would be split at Southampton.

 

[MTN]

Is there such a demand for travel from Upwey, Moreton, Holton Heath and Hamworthy to Winchester and London as to justify running 2×444 every hour to Weymouth?
I agree I am not convinced by an all stations Pompey to Weymouth but Portsmouth to Bournemouth seems sensible (South Central ran through from London not so long ago...)

There is certainly more demand from these stations to travel to London / Winchester / Southampton Airport than to travel slowly to Portsmouth. I speak as a semi-regular passenger from Moreton to London.
I think that not stopping London services at these stations will just increase the numbers travelling from stations such as Wareham and Poole putting added pressure on limited parking. Either that or once in the car will drive all the way rather than use the train. I for one would not consider using Moreton Station to then have to change and wait 20 minutes for a London train - easier and quicker to drive to Wareham.

 

[GW43125]

Lots of my school mates live in Camberley and they often have to drive to Farnborough Main to access London.

There's a lot of us who go Ashford/Hounslow to Chertsey to get to school/college-a currently direct journey which will require two changes under the new timetable!

(Note to TT planners: Good [deleted] luck getting 400 schoolkids over the bridge at Virginia Water in the morning...)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Going to Portsmouth from the Poole area I'd probably either get the train from Poole or change to a fast at Bournemouth and at Southampton get the GWR service which afaik is fast between Southampton Central and Portsmouth.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Going to Portsmouth from the Poole area I'd probably either get the train from Poole or change to a fast at Bournemouth and at Southampton get the GWR service which afaik is fast between Southampton Central and Portsmouth.

If you were going from Portsmouth to Poole, you'd be better off driving than catching a train, it's motorway all the way to the other side of Southampton (Cadnam) and then a good mix of dual carriageway & two way traffic and if you know some of the quieter side routes you could be ¾ of the way there before the train from Portsmouth even reaches Southampton.

 

[Drsatan]

If you were going from Portsmouth to Poole, you'd be better off driving than catching a train, it's motorway all the way to the other side of Southampton (Cadnam) and then a good mix of dual carriageway & two way traffic and if you know some of the quieter side routes you could be ¾ of the way there before the train from Portsmouth even reaches Southampton.

However, if driving during the rush hour on a Bank Holiday, the queues at the Ringwood Interchange where the A338 joins the A31 can stretch back two or three miles. Going the other way's usually quicker.

 

[Harbouring]

Removing the car element for a brief moment the only way people will do the through journey to Bournemouth and beyond is via advance tickets that are reasonably priced. Otherwise certainly changing at Southampton would on most cases be quicker.

 

[daylightatthegrids]

There's a lot of us who go Ashford/Hounslow to Chertsey to get to school/college-a currently direct journey which will require two changes under the new timetable!

(Note to TT planners: Good [deleted] luck getting 400 schoolkids over the bridge at Virginia Water in the morning...)

The shuttle proposed is weybridge to Virginia water. The current journey time of the weybridge to Waterloo via hounslow is very slow due to the only bay available at weybridge, waiting for the reading train to go in front when on the up at Virginia water and waiting for the train from Windsor when on the up after leaving Egham. Being behind 2 fast trains means very few passengers get on this train unless they need stations via hounslow.

Personally I think is very much needed to improve performance on readings, windsors and hounslow rounders!!!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there any free paths between Poole and Southampton?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there any free paths between Poole and Southampton?

You need to define the sort of path you want, all stations, semi fast, or fast will have different answers. Remember the South Central Bournemouth service was removed from the timetable by the SRA because it was believed it caused pathing difficulties, and at that time there only two SWT services between Southampton and Brockenhurst, with the all stations stopper running as a Brockenhurst to Wareham shuttle.

Are you asking about now, or is the underlying 2018 planned timetable going to be in force? As you'll know they fit the stopping path in now by having a long layover at Brockenhurst in the down direction, but they seem to have got rid of that problem with the new timetable. Might your proposal need that half hour layover putting back in?

IIRC it has been explained before that the line signalling west of Southampton is not set up for a significantly greater overall service pattern.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

There are some lengthy signal sections beyond Totton and when you throw in the often erratic nature of XC services it can make things tricky.