Sussex commuters sentenced after bogus compensation claims

[EM2]

Although this relates to prosecutions, mods may prefer to move it to a different section.

http://media.btp.police.uk/r/12523/sussex_commuters_sentenced_after_bogus_compensati

11 Feb 2016 09:20
Sussex commuters sentenced after bogus compensation claims
Two passengers have received suspended sentences and ordered to do unpaid work after falsely claiming delay compensation.
They were also told to repay a combined total of more than £6,000 to Southern Railway.
The two researched delayed trains online then submitted claims for delays, despite never travelling on the services.
A man and a woman were both handed suspended sentences, ordered to do unpaid work and given hefty fines after being caught submitting a huge number of fraudulent delay claims.

Steven Martins, 49, and Nicole Phillips, 42, both of Pulborough, Sussex, pleaded guilty to fraud by false representation at Highbury Magistrates Court on 22 January after an investigation by our officers found fraudulent claims totalling thousands of pounds.

Sentencing
Martin was handed a 2-year prison sentence, suspended for 12 months, ordered to pay Southern Rail compensation of £3,500 and told to undertake 180 hours unpaid work.

Meanwhile Phillips was sentenced to 18 months in prison, suspended for 12 months. She was ordered to repay £2,600 and was also given 120 hours unpaid work.

Both were also ordered to pay £85 costs.

Deliberate scam
Speaking after the sentencing, PC Michael Stephenson said: “This was a carefully-organised and deliberate scam designed to defraud thousands of pounds from the railway industry. Phillips and Martins researched services that qualified for delay compensation on the internet.

“They managed to arouse suspicion after submitting an unusually large number of claims. CCTV was produced that clearly showed they had already made their journeys into London for work and hadn’t been anywhere near the delayed services at the time.

“This was an operation designed to defraud the railway of thousands of pounds set aside for passengers who have been genuinely inconvenienced by delays and disruption. Ultimately it is the travelling public who lose out through increases in fares to cover the cost of bogus claims like these.

“We hope this sends a clear message to anyone thinking of abusing the claims system in future.”

Serious fraud
Stella Morris, Head of Security and Revenue Protection Strategy for Southern Railway, said: "We welcome genuine claims for delays to journeys of 30 minutes or more. However, this case demonstrates that if you abuse a scheme to compensate rail passengers who are delayed, it will be treated as serious fraud and prosecuted.

“Govia Thameslink Railway worked hard with British Transport Police to uncover this fraud and will continue to highlight to them those cases where we believe that fraudulent claims are being made."

 

[najaB]

Good!

 

[feline1]

the cheeky beggars!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Interesting that they used CCTV evidence to nail them, isn't it.

But I thought they "couldn't" keep CCTV evidence!

(Yes, I'm glad to see them get nailed)

 

[cuccir]

Indeed - Delay Repay is important for holding TOCs to account, so any abuse needs to be strictly punished.

 

[Minilad]

This is why I am suspicious of the need for websites with late running train data on them. So so easy to just look for the delayed services and say you are on them.

 

[DaleCooper]

Perhaps this thread should be a "Sticky" so it can be referred to when people ask for advice on this sort of thing, I seem to remember there have been such posts.

 

[RichardN]

I'm surprised that people didn't think that frequent claims indicating an erratic travel pattern would be suspicious.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'm surprised that people didn't think that frequent claims indicating an erratic travel pattern would be suspicious.

People intent on crime often display low intelligence - such as the youth on my North Downs line train this morning who was involved in an incident with a GWR ticket inspector and the guard a few days ago because he refused to buy a ticket, was taken off at Reigate by the Inspector and then walked off the platform end onto the level crossing. His description had already been given to the police, including his clothing. This morning, the same youth, wearing exactly the same clothing from head to toe, was sitting in the first class of my train. Bright lad!

 

[northwichcat]

This is why I am suspicious of the need for websites with late running train data on them. So so easy to just look for the delayed services and say you are on them.

Such websites aren't always 100% error free. When someone mentioned a delayed 319 service I looked at it on RTT and it appeared it made up a significant amount of it's late running. However, RTT didn't show that the service omitted calls at most intermediate stations, so if someone claimed they boarded the train 15 minutes late and then missed their connection and arrived at their destination 30 minutes late they would easily found to be lying if the train didn't in fact stop at their station!

 

[RichardN]

I think this is what most people don't realise when they commit certain types of fraud (betting fraud would be another example) is that their actions stand out like a sore thumb. High per person/address/ticket number of claims at erratic travel times.

I wont even claim for journeys where I've rocked up intending to get the X:15 train, only to get a very delayed (X-1):45 train which is over 30 mins late...

 

[miami]

People intent on crime often display low intelligence - such as the youth on my North Downs line train this morning who was involved in an incident with a GWR ticket inspector and the guard a few days ago because he refused to buy a ticket, was taken off at Reigate by the Inspector and then walked off the platform end onto the level crossing. His description had already been given to the police, including his clothing. This morning, the same youth, wearing exactly the same clothing from head to toe, was sitting in the first class of my train. Bright lad!

Did he get caught?
Did he get sent to court?
Did he get punished?

Or was he simply ignored as normal, or at worst escorted off the train?

How much has this youth travelled over the last 6 months, how much has he paid for that travel?

 

[Deepgreen]

Did he get caught?
Did he get sent to court?
Did he get punished?

Or was he simply ignored as normal, or at worst escorted off the train?

How much has this youth travelled over the last 6 months, how much has he paid for that travel?

Not this morning he didn't! Of course, I have no proof that he didn't have the right (or any) ticket for the accommodation, but I would be amazed if he had, given his previous behaviour. As far as I know he wasn't punished last time, as the Inpector just let him walk off down the platform towards the level crossing, but I could be wrong. If he did, his intelligence is even lower than I thought, to be travelling in first again! He got off at Redhill this morning, presumably to 'double-through'. I have no idea how much he has travelled ticket-free in the last six months. Ticket inspectors are very rare on the route (I have seen two in four years of daily use!).

 

[Clip]

Interesting that they used CCTV evidence to nail them, isn't it.

But I thought they "couldn't" keep CCTV evidence!

(Yes, I'm glad to see them get nailed)

They generally don't however this would've been kept during the investigation into them as they would've let them carry on with this scam for some time so they could nail them.

but you knew that didn't you.

 

[miami]

Not this morning he didn't! Of course, I have no proof that he didn't have the right (or any) ticket for the accommodation, but I would be amazed if he had, given his previous behaviour. As far as I know he wasn't punished last time, as the Inpector just let him walk off down the platform towards the level crossing, but I could be wrong. If he did, his intelligence is even lower than I thought, to be travelling in first again! He got off at Redhill this morning, presumably to 'double-through'. I have no idea how much he has travelled ticket-free in the last six months. Ticket inspectors are very rare on the route (I have seen two in four years of daily use!).

So he travels frequently in first class without paying for a ticket, and the worst that happens is occasionally he gets taken off the train?

And you think that this is a sign of low intelligence? He's getting the maximum game for the minimum cost, he knows that almost any ticket inspector will simply kick him off the train rather than fight him, it's far easier for them to pounce on the little old lady who got on the 18:07 (departing 18:17) rather than the actual 18:17 and charge her £150 for the privilege.

 

[yorkie]

I've warned about this previously.

I am not surprised.

TOCs do get suspicious of people whose travel patterns seem to vary depending on where there are delays!

Peoples sometimes ask "I had planned to travel, but put off my journey because there were delays, can I still claim?" and I think this shows how important it is that anyone in that situation is very, very careful what they put in any correspondence with the TOC.

 

[cuccir]

I wont even claim for journeys where I've rocked up intending to get the X:15 train, only to get a very delayed (X-1):45 train which is over 30 mins late...

That's not even a case of chosing to not claim - your journey wasn't delayed by over 30 minutes so there's no claim to be made.

 

[RichardN]

That's not even a case of chosing to not claim - your journey wasn't delayed by over 30 minutes so there's no claim to be made.

I suspect many people would happily claim in those circumstances. Proving intent to catch the later service would be impossible unless the journey started at the station the train started from.

I must say I think the shabby way the season ticket per journey rate for delay repay is calculated probably makes people more likely to do this type of fraud. I'm pretty certain most annual season ticket holders don't make a daily return journey every weekday of the year plus a lot of weekend journeys. Treat people unfairly and they are more likely to do the same to you.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wont even claim for journeys where I've rocked up intending to get the X:15 train, only to get a very delayed (X-1):45 train which is over 30 mins late...

Which is entirely correct: the compensation is for your delay.

I'd agree about the season ticket calculations being very much skewed towards the TOC (quelle surprise). I also get very angry when a TOC says they "cannot" give compensation for a 29.5 minute delay (they can, they just don't want to, think of the shareholders), especially when that TOC is actively lying about the delay. But two wrongs don't make a right.

As with everything in life, the occasional claim will probably go undetected, but to end up with £3500 Delay Repay vouchers they must have been properly going some.

And no matter how aggrieved you feel at TOC chicanery (and I felt pretty aggrieved with London Midland), defrauding them of money is absolutely unacceptable.

 

[northwichcat]

I also get very angry when a TOC says they "cannot" give compensation for a 29.5 minute delay (they can, they just don't want to, think of the shareholders), especially when that TOC is actively lying about the delay. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Do they ever know exactly how many minutes you are delayed? The train might be recorded going through a signal just before the station 29 minutes late but then by time the train is stopped and the doors are opened it might be 31 minutes late.

 

[tony6499]

I've warned about this previously.

I am not surprised.

TOCs do get suspicious of people whose travel patterns seem to vary depending on where there are delays!

Peoples sometimes ask "I had planned to travel, but put off my journey because there were delays, can I still claim?" and I think this shows how important it is that anyone in that situation is very, very careful what they put in any correspondence with the TOC.

I've seen on other non railway sites where claiming for non journeys is encouraged with the sites advertised as a good thing. I must admit to being surprised by how many people say they claim for non journeys so no wonder the TOCs are investigating some of the more obvious fake claims.

People think it isn't a crime, bit like fare evasion, and that they won't get caught if they do so.

 

[455driver]

So that's where Stella went, I remember her when she was Guards Manager at SWT, an excellent Manager who was sadly missed when she 'left'.

 

[RichardN]

As with everything in life, the occasional claim will probably go undetected, but to end up with £3500 Delay Repay vouchers they must have been properly going some.

Well they did have to go over the level crossing from hell at Billingshurst... Even so, an annual season to London All Zones from Pulborough is only about £5000.

I was commuting to London on the same line and maybe doing £100 - £200 p/a in delay repay (From memory, didn't keep an accurate record)

The other thing Southern did which was irritating is send an letter notifying of a rejected claim just giving you a reference number (which you never get to see when you make the claim on the website!), making it just about impossible to work out which of your claims is rejected and to correct whatever they are unhappy with.

 

[amcluesent]

Then again, if a season ticket holder sees the earlier train is having a 'mare and is 40 mins down and you're 25 down, it's temping to sneak in a cheeky Delay-Repay. Just don't be greedy, eh?

 

[miami]

Then again, if a season ticket holder sees the earlier train is having a 'mare, it's temping to sneak in a cheeky Delay-Repay. Just don't be greedy, eh?

And hopefully they'll get caught out

See the following schedule
0700 dep
0730 dep
0800 dep

The reality

0700 dep -- departure 0803
0730 dep -- departure 0732
0800 dep -- departure 0808

They arrive at 0750, catch the 0700 (actually 0803), throw in the "I was delayed" claim, then go to jail when they admit the reason they didn't get the 0730 (actually 0732) was because they weren't there.

 

[yorkie]

I suspect many people would happily claim in those circumstances.

It would be a fraudulent claim. I doubt a high proportion of people would do this but I agree there must be a significant number who are doing it, who may well be under investigation as we speak.

Proving intent to catch the later service would be impossible unless the journey started at the station the train started from.

Hmm.. I am not sure we can say what is or isn't possible without looking at the full details, but a small minority commuters do seem to apparently always want to travel to or from work at the time when delays occur, which is a strange coincidence. Occasionally trains make additional calls that may not be known about by people who were not there.

I must say I think the shabby way the season ticket per journey rate for delay repay is calculated probably makes people more likely to do this type of fraud. I'm pretty certain most annual season ticket holders don't make a daily return journey every weekday of the year plus a lot of weekend journeys. Treat people unfairly and they are more likely to do the same to you.

There would be no entirely fair system, but for sure the old system would benefit some people (e.g. people who do not have time to make claims, people who are regularly affected by delays of less than 30 minutes) and would of course eliminate this fraud.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only because TOCs refuse to introduce 'carnet'-style multi-journey tickets, despite there being some waffly Dept of Transport policy to bring them in.

Why should off peak day-passengers have to subsidize the TOC's monopoly commuter rush-hour services?

Feel free to make some proposals in a new thread (with appropriately named thread title), with pricing examples.

 

[bb21]

Posts discussing GTR (Southern) changing the timetable due to persistent late running has been moved here. Please try and keep on topic in the Prosecutions & Disputes area. Thanks.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Do they ever know exactly how many minutes you are delayed?

They go off train running records. A great recent example being a 28 minute delay and then ten minutes to get off the platform at Euston because the genii at London Midland has two RPIs to check the tickets of a 12-coach peak time arrival into London. If the train running record says 29 minutes, even though it doesn't seem to fully take into account the crawl into Euston, then it gets rejected. Asking London Travelwatch to help is a waste of time.

But that's probably a rant for another thread and another day.

Hmm.. I am not sure we can say what is or isn't possible without looking at the full details, but a small minority commuters do seem to apparently always want to travel to or from work at the time when delays occur, which is a strange coincidence. Occasionally trains make additional calls that may not be known about by people who were not there.

When people take the p!ss then this happens, and rightly so, though I'd be very wary of saying TOCs should reject delay claims from people who were not on the platform.

I used to live literally over the road from Apsley station and, when JourneyCheck showed everything up the spout, had two choices: stand on the cold platform (with a locked waiting room due to a three-month "staff shortage") or wait in my living room until my train arrived at the previous station. Of course I was delayed, I was just delayed in my house rather than on a sub-zero platform.

I think, like everything, the odd claim will go undetected but if you're sticking several claims a week in then they're going to get suspicious.

 

[Minstral25]

Not this morning he didn't! Of course, I have no proof that he didn't have the right (or any) ticket for the accommodation, but I would be amazed if he had, given his previous behaviour. As far as I know he wasn't punished last time, as the Inpector just let him walk off down the platform towards the level crossing, but I could be wrong. If he did, his intelligence is even lower than I thought, to be travelling in first again! He got off at Redhill this morning, presumably to 'double-through'. I have no idea how much he has travelled ticket-free in the last six months. Ticket inspectors are very rare on the route (I have seen two in four years of daily use!).

Straight out of Redhill Station on Platform 3, an unguarded exit that hasn't had a ticket inspector of any variety for a couple of years. Probably works in the pre graffiti'd MacDonald's in Redhill

 

[Deepgreen]

I suspect many people would happily claim in those circumstances. Proving intent to catch the later service would be impossible unless the journey started at the station the train started from.

I must say I think the shabby way the season ticket per journey rate for delay repay is calculated probably makes people more likely to do this type of fraud. I'm pretty certain most annual season ticket holders don't make a daily return journey every weekday of the year plus a lot of weekend journeys. Treat people unfairly and they are more likely to do the same to you.

Annual season ticket rates take into account holiday periods - i.e. non-travelling (equivalent of four weeks I think) and weekends in their price calculation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Straight out of Redhill Station on Platform 3, an unguarded exit that hasn't had a ticket inspector of any variety for a couple of years. Probably works in the pre graffiti'd MacDonald's in Redhill

Could be, although the easier (i.e. closer) option of a simple double-through would probably be de rigeur for this type of person. Saw him in first class again this morning - he knows I witnessed the Reigate incident and refused to meet my eye when I stared at him!

BTW, I did actually see inspectors at the platform 3 exit one afternoon last autumn, and very surprised people were too!