Suspension on integral versus non-integral ADL buses

[joieman]

It's well-known (and I have experienced firsthand) that the suspension/ride quality on integral Alexander-Dennis buses (eg. ADL Enviro400) is notoriously poor. I have been wondering if the ride quality is better on non-integral ADL buses (eg. Scania N230UD/ADL Enviro400). I have ridden on both integrals and Scanias, but it's been quite a while since I rode a Scania ADL (and some roads I rode over in the Scanias were quite poorly maintained anyway, further meaning that my findings so far are inconclusive).

 

[Hyebone]

It's well-known (and I have experienced firsthand) that the suspension/ride quality on integral Alexander-Dennis buses (eg. ADL Enviro400) is notoriously poor. I have been wondering if the ride quality is better on non-integral ADL buses (eg. Scania N230UD/ADL Enviro400). I have ridden on both integrals and Scanias, but it's been quite a while since I rode a Scania ADL (and some roads I rode over in the Scanias were quite poorly maintained anyway, further meaning that my findings so far are inconclusive).

Honestly it depends. The Scania Enviro400s here in Chesterfield bounce all over the place, but I rode a Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire example and it was the smoothest experience ever.

 

[randyrippley]

FWIW some of the most rigid and least rickety of Stagecoach's buses in Morecambe/Lancaster are the MX13 plated E400H hybrids which came from Manchester (originally in green beachball)
I was on 12207 yesterday and the superior body stiffness is very obvious, even over newer buses.
Presumably these are integrals?

 

[joieman]

FWIW some of the most rigid and least rickety of Stagecoach's buses in Morecambe/Lancaster are the MX13 plated E400H hybrids which came from Manchester (originally in green beachball)
I was on 12207 yesterday and the superior body stiffness is very obvious, even over newer buses.
Presumably these are integrals?

Apparently so. I've never ridden on an E400H, though - I can't remember any bus operators in Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire or Derbyshire actually getting hybrid buses new. Notts+Derby have some E400Hs (apparently converted to regular diesel) which they bought off Lothian, but of course they were a bit out of my way!

 

[Lewisham2221]

I can't comment specifically on a Scania/ADL combination because I've never driven one or, to my knowledge, travelled on one.

From my experience, ADLs tend to have a lower ride height and the suspension just generally feels "cheaper". On the other hand, Scania suspension feels much more sturdy, but does tend to be rather on the "firm" side - so still feels rather rickety. Certainly on a single deck, the larger wheels of a Scania help to smooth things out a little though.

 

[Strathclyder]

I can't comment specifically on a Scania/ADL combination because I've never driven one or, to my knowledge, travelled on one.

From my experience, ADLs tend to have a lower ride height and the suspension just generally feels "cheaper". On the other hand, Scania suspension feels much more sturdy, but does tend to be rather on the "firm" side - so still feels rather rickety. Certainly on a single deck, the larger wheels of a Scania help to smooth things out a little though.

This certainly lines up with my experience, having done many miles in both ADLs and Scanias with First Glasgow. Seating and of course road quality (Glasgow's roads can be notoriously full of potholes or poorly filled in potholes, which muddies things further) is also a major factor too.

 

[py_megapixel]

I can't tell any difference between the ride quality of Scanias and integral ADLs in terms of the suspension, but it does feel like the Scanias have a little more power behind them and of course they sound quite different.

 

[joieman]

This certainly lines up with my experience, having done many miles in both ADLs and Scanias with First Glasgow. Seating and of course road quality (Glasgow's roads can be notoriously full of potholes or poorly filled in potholes, which muddies things further) is also a major factor too.

Yeah. Potholes. My usual place to ride Scania E400s was over the Nottingham City Transport service 1 between Loughborough and Nottingham. I can attest that Kirk Ley Road in East Leake is/was in dire need of resurfacing.

 

[py_megapixel]

Before the recent resurfacing was finished, Rockingham Street in Sheffield used to be quite an experience in any bus. I think the worst for coping with the rough surface were probably Stagecoach's Enviro200s, but there aren't any Scania versions of those to compare with.

 

[JD2168]

Scania Enviro 400’s I notice can have a choppy ride but are better over speed bumps than the ADL version. Neither are as good as Volvo B9TL & Volvo B7RLE chassis vehicles but are comparable to StreetDeck’ & StreetLite’s.

 

[py_megapixel]

Scania Enviro 400’s I notice can have a choppy ride but are better over speed bumps than the ADL version. Neither are as good as Volvo B9TL & Volvo B7RLE chassis vehicles but are comparable to StreetDeck’ & StreetLite’s.

I find Streetdecks ride vastly better than Streetlites. Streetdecks also seem to ride a little better than E400s but Streetlites shake all over the place and are comparable if not worse to a "classic" E200. Have to agree that the Volvo kit is the best, though particularly the double deckers are really showing its age at this point.

 

[Aaron Ashton]

I'm a driver at Stagecoach CNL, I drive E400 (PX12), Scania/E400 and E400 MMC (16/68/19 plates). From my experience, the 68 plates have the worst suspension, followed by 19 plates, 12 plates, 16 plates then the best being the Scania/E400s

 

[johnw]

As a non PSV driver, the above answers the original posters question in an excellent intelligent way.

As a customer, I’ve used both on the Stagecoach S5 between Bicester and Oxford. The Scania offers a far better ride quality, especially at speed - my partner also noticed this even though he would role his eyes at such a suggestion!!

Sadly Scania don’t offer a DD offering in the UK and Stagecoach think that anything with a small headrest is coach seated…. I’ll just drive my Audi instead!

 

[Towers]

Jumping back in time 20 years or so, Scania OmniCity single deckers landed at our place as replacements for B10BLEs. My goodness the suspension was abysmal in comparison, rock hard to the point that mass complaints were raised by drivers! Their low ride height was also problematic, a clear case of “designed for mainland Europe”! Presumably they’ve refined things in the years since!

 

[Busman84]

Volvo have always had good suspensions. When they went low floor with the B7TL these were smooth and rode well. B10BLEs had good suspension too and it showed against the Scanias at the time which were awful. Wrights built virtually the same models on both of those chassis. The Scania produced rattles yet the Volvo didn’t.

 

[johnw]

Volvo shot itself in the foot with the small engined B5Tl, to compete with the complete E400, which was suggested that First group wanting to reduce fuel costs and a lower weight. This of course back fired to Volvo and Wrighbus came up with the streetdec.

 

[Goldfish62]

By far the best ride quality on an ADL product in my experience is the E400EV with BYD chassis.

 

[petrolhead746]

In my experience Scania Enviro 400s are world apart, if they are properly maintained. We used to have them on the 125 Stagecoach route from Preston to Bolton. They were really smooth and lovely to travel on. Towards the end they were bumpy, but I think they just were getting a bit tired.

The new Enviro 400 Integrals we now have on the same route are shocking. I hate travelling on them with a passion. The bus itself looks quite smart and is well laid-out for the capacity. Initially they seem fine. Ride quality is absolutely appalling though! They slam and crash over small bumps sending massive shocks into the cabin. They are just awful and turn any journey in a misery. I hate Alexander Dennis (Scania aside) for the absolute rubbish they build and the market share they have. They're always banging on about how they're 'Britain's best bus' but I think they are absolute junk. The engines also squeal at less than a year old and the fans sound like a hairdryer. I can't believe they are a new vehicle made in 2024. Feels like a vehicle from years ago.

Occasionally an older Scania will turn up on the route. I'm certainly relieved when It does. They do bump about a tad but nothing major. The suspension feels much more refined and is much better and isolating the terrible roads. They genuinely are a nice bus and a pleasure to travel on. No idea why we have gone backwards. Assuming cost and buying in bulk. I'm sure the new Integrals will be a lot more fuel efficient as they feel so much lighter

 

[Jordan Adam]

The ride quality on the Scanias (especially deckers) is much worse than the ride quality on ADLs in my opinion. At least ADLs only thud in to bumps, in contrast Scanias thud in to bumps and then bounce all over the place after.

Anything Volvo based has far superior ride quality characteristics.