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Supermarkets discussion

jon0844

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What's the attraction with this? are some cards worth a lot of money?

Yes, with some big YouTubers and other influencers suddenly making them big news again. Some cards are 'worth' millions. I put that in quotes because clearly it's all hype and a card is only worth anything if there's a mug person willing to pay that.

It's basically legalised gambling for kids (but also adults) where you don't know what you're going to get in a pack (aka mystery boxes). The same as football stickers in a way, but more so because you can keep creating new cards as there's no album to fill.

I do wonder how it's going to go for Tesco and being that this is a trial, and they're expanding The Entertainer in stores it could be the start of other toy trends to get people in a frenzy.
 
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SuspectUsual

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Yes, with some big YouTubers and other influencers suddenly making them big news again. Some cards are 'worth' millions. I put that in quotes because clearly it's all hype and a card is only worth anything if there's a mug person willing to pay that.

It's basically legalised gambling for kids (but also adults) where you don't know what you're going to get in a pack (aka mystery boxes). The same as football stickers in a way, but more so because you can keep creating new cards as there's no album to fill.

I do wonder how it's going to go for Tesco and being that this is a trial, and they're expanding The Entertainer in stores it could be the start of other toy trends to get people in a frenzy.

And have a look at trading cards in America. Some of them go for millions
 

jon81uk

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Tesco is about to try selling Pokemon cards in selected stores from (I think) June 12th, and I wonder how they're going to protect the stock from being stolen.

They will also have a limit of 2 packs per person, but have told staff that they are not to refuse sales of more to anyone that refuses to adhere to the, effectively suggested-only, limit (which makes me think they already expect some issues) so if they aren't stolen, they're all going to be purchased by scalpers!
Maybe the Pokemon cards will be at the kiosk counter?


I do wonder in general if some stores will go back to being more like Arkwrights (in Open all Hours) with a large number of goods behind the counter.
 

Harpo

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I don’t think anything’s changed but I was really struck by a Sainsburys TV advert that not only mentions Aldi for ‘price matching’ but also references it in on-screen T&C text. Sainsburys seem to be doing Aldi’s advertising for them.
 

jon81uk

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I don’t think anything’s changed but I was really struck by a Sainsburys TV advert that not only mentions Aldi for ‘price matching’ but also references it in on-screen T&C text. Sainsburys seem to be doing Aldi’s advertising for them.
Tesco and Sainsbury's have been price matching to Aldi for quite some time.
 

DoubleLemon

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Tesco Extra in Gateshead has had the trolley and basket weighing devices removed from the scan as you shop area. I don't think the trial was a success.
I don't get why they are not forcing suppliers to put rfids on each item and all you need to do is push the trolley and yourself through an arch to scan your items.
 

The exile

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I don't get why they are not forcing suppliers to put rfids on each item and all you need to do is push the trolley and yourself through an arch to scan your items.
How do you put an rfid on a cabbage? Or indeed anything sold loose by weight?
 

SuspectUsual

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I don't get why they are not forcing suppliers to put rfids on each item and all you need to do is push the trolley and yourself through an arch to scan your items.

Because the buying price for every single item would go up by between 2p and 3p depending on the size of the supplier

And they’d all have to conform to the same standard.

And how will you roll this out to the roughly 50% that is sourced overseas?
 

The exile

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Because the buying price for every single item would go up by between 2p and 3p depending on the size of the supplier

And they’d all have to conform to the same standard.

And how will you roll this out to the roughly 50% that is sourced overseas?
And what about the identical rfid fitted items that are in my bag but that I’ve already bought and paid for elsewhere?
 

jon0844

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Maybe the Pokemon cards will be at the kiosk counter?


I do wonder in general if some stores will go back to being more like Arkwrights (in Open all Hours) with a large number of goods behind the counter.

They could certainly try but with the destaffing issues and more and more time consuming duties as it is, like being expected to do your usual role plus picking items for Whoosh (that now sees orders of 50-60+ items as people with more money than sense use it to do a full shop) and so on, they're going to end up providing a terrible service to customers.
 

DoubleLemon

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How do you put an rfid on a cabbage? Or indeed anything sold loose by weight?
simple how do you. do it now, you put it on scales and it prints something. lots of places to put a chip the size of a pin head.

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Because the buying price for every single item would go up by between 2p and 3p depending on the size of the supplier

And they’d all have to conform to the same standard.

And how will you roll this out to the roughly 50% that is sourced overseas?
they cost 100s of a penny now. it's been trialed in warehouses for a while.
 

Gloster

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Does the purchaser then have to remove the rfid from every item? What happens if they forget and ingest it? And could miscreants swap rfids around: stick one removed from a tomato on a pineapple?
 

SuspectUsual

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they cost 100s of a penny now. it's been trialed in warehouses for a while.

I’ve worked in logistics my entire life and we’ve used RFID for certain high risk products for many years, and they don’t cost “100s of a penny”
 

jon0844

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Does Decathlon still have the boxes you put your shopping into so it works out the cost? I've not been in one for years, but I always wondered how accurate they were and what shoplifters would do in order to circumvent the charging (cutting off tags, covering them etc). If there's no weighing of the items, what's to stop someone just making it so the trolley scanner misses half the contents?

Don't suggest cameras with AI as both Amazon and Aldi have abandoned that nonsense, given how inaccurate and slow it was - and requiring over 1,000 people in India to manually view the footage to work out what people had bought because the AI didn't work.

As more people fight against AI, I do think some shops might just want to go back to the days of a real person scanning your goods.

Even M&S has abandoned the scan on your phone, which let you pay and walk out. Staff will still be able to use it for a maximum of £15 but I think in time other shops that let you do it will stop as it was stupidly easy to abuse. Not one in all the times I used the app did anyone stop and check me, and given the staffing levels in most shops these days (often just 1 or 2 security on duty) I am not going to believe anyone that suggests I was being watched and they could tell I hadn't stolen anything.
 

The exile

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simple how do you. do it now, you put it on scales and it prints something. lots of places to put a chip the size of a pin head.

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they cost 100s of a penny now. it's been trialed in warehouses for a while.
But the original post was about supermarkets forcing suppliers to pre-affix them so that all customers have to do is walk through an arch and be charged automatically.
 

londonbridge

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Does Decathlon still have the boxes you put your shopping into so it works out the cost? I've not been in one for years, but I always wondered how accurate they were and what shoplifters would do in order to circumvent the charging (cutting off tags, covering them etc). If there's no weighing of the items, what's to stop someone just making it so the trolley scanner misses half the contents?

Don't suggest cameras with AI as both Amazon and Aldi have abandoned that nonsense, given how inaccurate and slow it was - and requiring over 1,000 people in India to manually view the footage to work out what people had bought because the AI didn't work.

As more people fight against AI, I do think some shops might just want to go back to the days of a real person scanning your goods.

Even M&S has abandoned the scan on your phone, which let you pay and walk out. Staff will still be able to use it for a maximum of £15 but I think in time other shops that let you do it will stop as it was stupidly easy to abuse. Not one in all the times I used the app did anyone stop and check me, and given the staffing levels in most shops these days (often just 1 or 2 security on duty) I am not going to believe anyone that suggests I was being watched and they could tell I hadn't stolen anything.
Sainsbury’s locals don’t have the smart shop handsets so you scan and pay for everything with your phone. I’d been out for the evening and went in a branch to get some chocolate and a drink to snack on on the way home. Saw the “start shop” qr code as I entered and was right in front of the security guard when I scanned it. Picked and scanned my items, went back to the front of the shop and again, was in view of security when I clicked pay on my phone so he could see what I was doing. Went to leave and he stopped me and insisted on checking my phone for the receipt. When you pay it tells you to scan the qr code again, but as long as the payment successful message has appeared, the shop is completed and it doesn’t actually matter whether you scan the qr code again before leaving or not.
 

125Spotter

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Sainsbury’s… smart shop handsets
Since we’re on the topic, Sainsbury’s seem to have rolled out an update on these handsets in my local store recently.

I was very happy that it adds a “search” option to find items and discover where in the store they are – it’s very accurate and a good reason for me to use the smart shop on larger shops. We get most of our groceries delivered, so I don’t know where some items actually are in store.

On the other hand, if you don’t scan anything for a few minutes, the handsets now do this annoying thing of vibrating and popping up a message with words “It’s been a few minutes since you scanned X. Take a moment to double check you’ve scanned everything in your basket.”

I don’t know who decided this was a good idea, or whether this sort of ill-considered nonsense is the type of thing we can expect more of with the rise of AI coding. The subtle insinuation that not scanning anything implies I’m stealing really infuriated me though, as did the vibration that interrupted me while I was deciding whether to buy more expensive pasta.

Do they not want people to casually browse? I always assumed the longer someone remained in the store, the larger on average their basket value will be.

(Out of spite I bought the cheap pasta and saved £1.)
 

jon0844

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Since we’re on the topic, Sainsbury’s seem to have rolled out an update on these handsets in my local store recently.

I was very happy that it adds a “search” option to find items and discover where in the store they are – it’s very accurate and a good reason for me to use the smart shop on larger shops. We get most of our groceries delivered, so I don’t know where some items actually are in store.

On the other hand, if you don’t scan anything for a few minutes, the handsets now do this annoying thing of vibrating and popping up a message with words “It’s been a few minutes since you scanned X. Take a moment to double check you’ve scanned everything in your basket.”

I don’t know who decided this was a good idea, or whether this sort of ill-considered nonsense is the type of thing we can expect more of with the rise of AI coding. The subtle insinuation that not scanning anything implies I’m stealing really infuriated me though, as did the vibration that interrupted me while I was deciding whether to buy more expensive pasta.

Do they not want people to casually browse? I always assumed the longer someone remained in the store, the larger on average their basket value will be.

(Out of spite I bought the cheap pasta and saved £1.)

I can't remember if it was Asda or Tesco that first had the search function, and it was/is really useful. That said, the fact I can't remember which one it was means I've not remembered it is there!

Tesco has dabbled with ads on the scanners but I don't think I've seen any ads recently so maybe that was a trial.

(Also, from another post, I've never had anyone in Sainsbury's ask me to show I've paid on my phone and only relatively recently found out I didn't need to scan a code to leave - which does make me wonder why it asks you to do it at all).
 

skyhigh

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I was very happy that it adds a “search” option to find items and discover where in the store they are – it’s very accurate and a good reason for me to use the smart shop on larger shops. We get most of our groceries delivered, so I don’t know where some items actually are in store.
In my Sainsbury's the aisle number is usually wrong. I don't think they've updated it since they last reshuffled everything.
Sainsbury’s locals don’t have the smart shop handsets so you scan and pay for everything with your phone. I’d been out for the evening and went in a branch to get some chocolate and a drink to snack on on the way home. Saw the “start shop” qr code as I entered and was right in front of the security guard when I scanned it. Picked and scanned my items, went back to the front of the shop and again, was in view of security when I clicked pay on my phone so he could see what I was doing. Went to leave and he stopped me and insisted on checking my phone for the receipt. When you pay it tells you to scan the qr code again, but as long as the payment successful message has appeared, the shop is completed and it doesn’t actually matter whether you scan the qr code again before leaving or not.
Last time I tried this I got a rescan. The problem was nobody in the Local knew how to do it so I had to abandon the app and use a self checkout (forgoing my nectar price offers, which is why I used it in the first place). Because the rescan wasn't completed, it seems to have left a black mark on my account which means more frequent checks.
 

jon0844

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Waitrose did that to me. Couldn't rescan as the staff member had forgotten to log in that morning and it was taking ages, so she cancelled my shop and made me scan again at the checkout to save time.

I was blacklisted as a result and had to then try and convince them to have my account reopened. That was fun!
 

Djgr

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I'm not sure scanning as you go is any quicker than scanning all at the end. From a time and motion approach I would expect the opposite
 
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Mojo

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Tesco has dabbled with ads on the scanners but I don't think I've seen any ads recently so maybe that was a trial.
l was in a Sainsbury’s yesterday and noticed adverts appearing on the scanner which l’ve never seen before.
 

Kite159

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l was in a Sainsbury’s yesterday and noticed adverts appearing on the scanner which l’ve never seen before.
They have been popping up for me for a couple of weeks at least, no adverts at the start but normally some random rubbish popping up after scanning a handful of items.
 

py_megapixel

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Two of my local Tescos have now got rid of the designated scan and go checkouts in favour of expanding the main self checkout area. Can't see any obvious reason why to be honest
 

Russel

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Two of my local Tescos have now got rid of the designated scan and go checkouts in favour of expanding the main self checkout area. Can't see any obvious reason why to be honest

Makes sense to me, why have a bank of dedicated checkouts just for self scan, that from what I've seen, are usually unused.
 

py_megapixel

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Makes sense to me, why have a bank of dedicated checkouts just for self scan, that from what I've seen, are usually unused.
To encourage people to use it. A large part of the appeal of the handsets for me was that they reduce the checkout process to a matter of seconds. That benefit is all but lost if the dedicated area is removed as you still get held up behind people scanning dozens of items.
 

Russel

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To encourage people to use it. A large part of the appeal of the handsets for me was that they reduce the checkout process to a matter of seconds. That benefit is all but lost if the dedicated area is removed as you still get held up behind people scanning dozens of items.

True, but using my local Tesco Extra as an example, I don't think I've ever seen more than 1 of the 5 scan and go checkouts in use at any one time while there is frequently a small queue for the standard self serve checkouts, which I imagine is fairly representative, so I can fully understand why Tesco would choose to merge the two.
 

jon0844

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Two of my local Tescos have now got rid of the designated scan and go checkouts in favour of expanding the main self checkout area. Can't see any obvious reason why to be honest

Ours has changed the tills at the scan and go checkouts and I think it looks increasingly likely that they'll be turned into normal tills for anyone - and the barriers and signage will be removed as the whole area just merges together.

I noticed they've lost most of the holders for handheld scanners, so you just have to search for one or leave it somewhere else. Does this mean they'll be pushing everyone to use a phone app (I'd actually be fine with that personally, but suspect a lot of people want the choice - and having a separate scanner means you can still use your phone for, say, accessing a list and have a place to put it on the trolley.

It all seems like all the supermarkets are desperately changing things around with self scanning as they know it's costing them loads in losses - and the losses becoming more public (like one individual store losing tens of thousands in less than a month) is perhaps resulting in customers wondering why they're invariably funding the losses in some way. I mean, when people see all the videos of people stealing whatever they want, I am sure they get angry then too.

Some stores seem to be fighting back (literally) with the support of the supermarket, which I think is a good thing, but it's all a mess IMO. And the claims that supermarkets are making do on tiny margins doesn't cut it when you have huge pre-tax profits and CEOs topping £10m!

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Makes sense to me, why have a bank of dedicated checkouts just for self scan, that from what I've seen, are usually unused.

Not in my experience, except when it's late - but despite advertising the scanners as working from 0600 to midnight, they turn them off around 2100 - so after then, yes, the area is empty but only because you can't self scan anymore.

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To encourage people to use it. A large part of the appeal of the handsets for me was that they reduce the checkout process to a matter of seconds. That benefit is all but lost if the dedicated area is removed as you still get held up behind people scanning dozens of items.

Yes, it's now common to have to queue for some time at Waitrose because they've made every checkout multi-purpose. It's not as if they open up more manned checkouts either, as they are like any store in wanting everyone to use the self-checkout terminals.
 
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jon81uk

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Two of my local Tescos have now got rid of the designated scan and go checkouts in favour of expanding the main self checkout area. Can't see any obvious reason why to be honest
In Sainsbury's the four tills dedicated to self-scan are often businer than the eight or so for full trolley self-checkout, but all self-checkouts have the QR code to scan with the handset. I just pick whichever one looks quietest, so converting the self-scan only to general ones wouldn't make a difference.
In Tesco they nebvr had self-scan handset only tills they've always been the same as self-checkouts.

On the other hand, if you don’t scan anything for a few minutes, the handsets now do this annoying thing of vibrating and popping up a message with words “It’s been a few minutes since you scanned X. Take a moment to double check you’ve scanned everything in your basket.”
I regularly use self-scan at Sainsbury's and I think I've paused to make decisions a few times but never actually noticed the handset do this. I did get adverts though, I think when I scanned milk a cheese advert came up.
 

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