Supermarkets discussion

[Ken X]

Perhaps I need to get out more, but I had a bit of a play with the self service tills in Sainsbury's this week.

As said in earlier posts, I like to plonk my empty bags on the scales and pack as I scan but this often causes starting errors.

This time I chose a heavy item to start (4pints of milk), scanned it and then put my empty bag on the scales, quickly followed by the milk inside.

Success no error.

It did momentarily wibble a bit, but then quickly cleared ready for the next item.
I continued to scan and pack normally.

The same process worked with a fourpack of Orange Juice. Looks like the weight of the bag is masked by the scanning of a heavy item first and then subsequently ignored.

As CPO Phillips would say "I am proud"

OC Domestic just rolls her eyes and pretends we're not together.

 

[ChrisC]

I can honestly say that I have NEVER used a self-service checkout without having to seek assistance to complete my purchases. Yet my daughter seems to be able to use them without fuss; well usually.
Is this a generational thing?

I only ever use them if there is a long queue at the normal checkouts and even then only if I have very small number of items. I nearly always regret using them and wish I’d queued, as by the time someone has come to assist, it would have been quicker to have waited in the queue.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Only place I've come across those "scan to exit" barriers in Sainsburys is at High Wycombe (in the large Sainsburys near the bus station).

Quite pointless as they don't stop those people who scan more expensive fruit/veg as cheap stuff like carrots or those not scanning everything if doing smartshop.

Got them in marlow and maidenhead too.
Big complaints on social media and in the Bucks Free Press when they were installed in Marlow sainsburys which apparently has high levels of theft (quite an affluent area)

 

[DelW]

I only ever use them if there is a long queue at the normal checkouts and even then only if I have very small number of items. I nearly always regret using them and wish I’d queued, as by the time someone has come to assist, it would have been quicker to have waited in the queue.

Plus for me, a further criterion of not having any non-barcoded items, like loose fruit and veg or self-serve bakery items. From my admittedly limited experience, it takes far too long to find each item on the screen menu and even then I was far from sure that I'd picked the right one.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Plus for me, a further criterion of not having any non-barcoded items, like loose fruit and veg or self-serve bakery items. From my admittedly limited experience, it takes far too long to find each item on the screen menu and even then I was far from sure that I'd picked the right one.

Did you perhaps select 'carrots' instead of 'avocados'?

 

[davews]

I also never ever use the self checkouts.
Our Tesco no longer sells loose carrots, which is a huge problem for us single people as a 1kg bag is too big. Someone suggested this may be to get round the issue of them being wrongly used at the self service checkouts.

 

[ChrisC]

I also never ever use the self checkouts.
Our Tesco no longer sells loose carrots, which is a huge problem for us single people as a 1kg bag is too big. Someone suggested this may be to get round the issue of them being wrongly used at the self service checkouts.

Not selling loose fruit and veg, and then only selling very large packs, is a trend in many supermarkets especially in smaller stores. Fortunately, I have the alternative of a local greengrocer and on one day a week a market stall, where I can buy fruit and veg in smaller quantities. It’s not just fruit and veg but the problem of getting smaller packs of many fresh items, for example sausages and bacon, make a butchers shop more attractive to me than a supermarket.

 

[lookapigeon]

Plus for me, a further criterion of not having any non-barcoded items, like loose fruit and veg or self-serve bakery items. From my admittedly limited experience, it takes far too long to find each item on the screen menu and even then I was far from sure that I'd picked the right one.

In Waitrose the layouts of the loose items are not standardized, it seems that they are determined locally, on a store level. So what you see in one category in one store isn't the same for another, and also some of the items get placed on odd places as a result.

I'm surprised people put large trolley loads through the self-service, I would have either use the handheld scanners or went to manned checkout. But for a few items I always use the self service, it just isn't worth lining up at a checkout for, unless it is empty or has a fast moving line.

Aside from the UI problem the other issues I find are that the hardware on self services is either faulty or not calibrated correctly and in conjunction with the weight not being recorded correctly on the computer causes issues. I remember one day the Sunday Times came with extra sections meaning it was heavier but no-one had updated the weight (or the tolerence was outside of what it was expecting). Pretty much everyone with an ST had an unexpected item in the bagging area!

 

[DelW]

Did you perhaps select 'carrots' instead of 'avocados'?

I don't think I've ever bought an avocado in my life

Not selling loose fruit and veg, and then only selling very large packs, is a trend in many supermarkets especially in smaller stores. Fortunately, I have the alternative of a local greengrocer and on one day a week a market stall, where I can buy fruit and veg in smaller quantities. It’s not just fruit and veg but the problem of getting smaller packs of many fresh items, for example sausages and bacon, make a butchers shop more attractive to me than a supermarket.

I do miss Sainsbury's deli counter, where I used to buy a couple of rashers of bacon and a couple of sausages for weekend breakfasts. I do fortunately still have a local greengrocer and butcher, but the latter's prices are way above Sainsbury's (although their quality is high too, to be fair).

 

[Calthrop]

I can honestly say that I have NEVER used a self-service checkout without having to seek assistance to complete my purchases. Yet my daughter seems to be able to use them without fuss; well usually.
Is this a generational thing?

Not necessarily. I am completely baffled by technology and any sort of automatic doodaa, but manage to use the self-service checkouts in... There were a few hiccups at first as I worked out in what order to do everything, what to press and where to put things...

I don't think it's a generational thing but it is a shop gaining experience / customer practice thing.

And @ChrisC writes: "I only ever use them if there is a long queue at the normal checkouts and even then only if I have very small number of items. I nearly always regret using them and wish I'd queued, as by the time someone has come to assist, it would have been quicker to have waited in the queue."


"Late to the party": but I am firmly in the "refuse to have any dealings with the things" camp. Like @Western Sunset, I've never been able to use one without seeking assistance. I'm aged 75; but think that it's a matter of personality and generally "how one is made", rather than generational. I'm one with @Gloster in being "completely baffled by technology and any sort of automatic doodaa" -- there's thus been a strong tendency for me, from the first, to feel a "snake / rabbit" thing re self-service checkouts.

I'd think that even I: could, with determination and persistence, learn to cope with at any rate the easier varieties of the contraptions; but strongly tend to shrink from the toil, tedium, repetition, annoyance, and sometimes pain, of learning to accomplish some procedure of a kind for which I have absolutely no natural bent -- when there is available, an alternative means which I am already able to deal with. Nowadays I never, ever use a self-service checkout (if in an establishment where it's the only way to pay, I get a staff member to "do the business" for me). Otherwise, I'll use a staffed till -- not bothered as to how long I must wait -- I just do so, reading my book until my turn comes.

 

[dgl]

One thing I have had happen a couple of times in M&S is the self-checkout will ask you to remove the last item from the bagging area, after which it will happily continue, this is interesting as the item has scanned and is paid for.

 

[Typhoon]

One thing I have had happen a couple of times in M&S is the self-checkout will ask you to remove the last item from the bagging area, after which it will happily continue, this is interesting as the item has scanned and is paid for.

The same has happened to me (but not in M&S - I rarely shop there). They are obviously quit happy for us to pay for items (they think) we don't actually take away. The problem with putting items in the bagging area is that they need to weigh whatever the system thinks they ought to weigh. I once had a problem with a TV magazine, I was told that was because I should have taken all the advertising junk out and left it behind. If an assistant passes by, I usually tell them, not that they are interested, and always get a receipt. Problems could occur with shrinkflation, if some older goods come to light after the lighter, new items are put on the shelves.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I popped into the Sainsbury's in the pentagon centre in Chatham yesterday and was surprised if not borderline amazed at the number of young people, mid teams in the main, who were shunning the self-service checkouts in favor of queuing for a staffed one. There is clearly some hope yet

 

[gg1]

On the day that Netflix announces price hikes after adding some 8-9m new subs (many perhaps being those who can't share accounts anymore), I am seeing more charges from Amazon who have not only put up the Prime subscription by £20 or so per year, but now want to charge me £1.99 for deliveries before 1pm the next day, or the same day (before 10pm) if ordering early morning

The big feature I liked of Prime deliveries was the fact you could chose your delivery day on items sold by or fulfilled by Amazon (which is most of them), incredibly useful when you know you'll ony be in certain days of the week. The option is still there but it's now extremely unreliable, items are just as likely to arrive before or after the date specified as on the day. This is a very recent drop in standards, it definitely only became a problem this year.

 

[jon0844]

I don't recall seeing the option to choose your delivery day anymore (beyond selecting your 'Amazon day') and I found that useful for ordering things when away, so it could be delivered when you got home. Now I have to keep the item in my basket and hope it's still the same price, and in stock, as well as remember to process the order before I head home.

I've been with Amazon for over 20 years (since they just did books) and I'm strongly considering ditching Prime, which by doing so will almost certainly mean I'll stop buying anywhere near as much as I do now (which is already way down on last year). I've stopped using subscribe and save (which keeps this on topic with supermarket discussion perhaps, as I used that for bulk orders of items I now just get from a supermarket again - like coffee, toilet paper, cleaning products etc) because the pricing started to fluctuate too much (conveniently switching price/supplier just before the order was taken, so I paid lots more) or after taking the money apologising that there was a delay and after a few weeks refunding me because they didn't have stock.

Frankly, Amazon has got a LOT worse - and that's before my other moan that despite having a safe place, 75% of deliveries are just dumped on my doorstep. No attempt to ring the doorbell (I have a Blink doorbell camera), just approach, dump, run off. I'm amazed nothing has been taken given I'm on a main road, but perhaps the camera serves as a deterrent against thieves! I downrate the delivery and Amazon does. not. care. one. bit.

I do feel for the drivers a little though. They seem to be jogging a lot more between drops, so I guess they've got ridiculous targets to meet to get paid.

 

[gg1]

I don't recall seeing the option to choose your delivery day anymore (beyond selecting your 'Amazon day') and I found that useful for ordering things when away, so it could be delivered when you got home. Now I have to keep the item in my basket and hope it's still the same price, and in stock, as well as remember to process the order before I head home.

I was referring to 'Amazon day', which effectively is an option to choose a delivery day, the only restriction is it can only be within 7 days of placing your order.

 

[jon0844]

Ah, right. In the past, you could order and select a day (and I think even time) for a delivery in advance.

I've used Amazon Day before. Never again. Despite doing the order days in advance, it didn't arrive! They said they had a problem, suggesting they didn't actually process the order in time to get it to the right depot.

Do you remember when Amazon gave you credit if you elected for a later delivery? I do!

 

[gg1]

Ah, right. In the past, you could order and select a day (and I think even time) for a delivery in advance.

I've used Amazon Day before. Never again. Despite doing the order days in advance, it didn't arrive! They said they had a problem, suggesting they didn't actually process the order in time to get it to the right depot.

Do you remember when Amazon gave you credit if you elected for a later delivery? I do!

I'd forgotten all about that feature, but yes I do now. Another feature they dropped was refunding the price difference if the item you bought dropped in price within a certain time of ordering.

You have to hand it to Bezos, he played the long game very well with Amazon, features like the above must have cost them a fair bit in lost profit but gave them a clear advantage in terms of customer experience to other retailers and no doubt played a major part in them gaining market dominance. Once they achieved market dominance they could quietly drop them as job done.

 

[takno]

I'd forgotten all about that feature, but yes I do now. Another feature they dropped was refunding the price difference if the item you bought dropped in price within a certain time of ordering.

You have to hand it to Bezos, he played the long game very well with Amazon, features like the above must have cost them a fair bit in lost profit but gave them a clear advantage in terms of customer experience to other retailers and no doubt played a major part in them gaining market dominance. Once they achieved market dominance they could quietly drop them as job done.

Interesting turn of phrase. In the past 6 months I've quietly dropped Amazon as "job gone to ****". Prime stopped being worth it, the subscribe and save system started being 50% item-not-available-this-week, and once you aren't wedded to any pre-payment or regular delivery then you have to start facing up to how bad the listings are. I can't be bothered to guess whether the reviews, pictures and descriptions are of the real item, or have been badly amalgamated from something else, and I definitely can't be bothered with changing the size of something and not noticing that instead of next-day delivery it's now getting sent from China.

Going to a supermarket or Argos costs a wee bit more, but it's generally available same-day or soon afterwards, has flexible delivery to a nearby store, and my habit of impulse-buying something I don't need while I'm there is completely gone, which saves me a fortune.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Ah, right. In the past, you could order and select a day (and I think even time) for a delivery in advance.

I've used Amazon Day before. Never again. Despite doing the order days in advance, it didn't arrive! They said they had a problem, suggesting they didn't actually process the order in time to get it to the right depot.

Do you remember when Amazon gave you credit if you elected for a later delivery? I do!

Was that the 'no rush' option with a £1 credit? I guess it was an attempt to allow them to schedule deliveries more efficiently.

I have occasionally been a Prime member, mostly for the music / video streaming side but I did take advantage of the unlimited free deliveries to buy more stuff without having to worry about the delivery charge or timescale.

As a non-Prime customer I often have (had?) the choice of free (but in a few days by x/x/23), fixed day a couple of days later at one delivery fee or next day for a higher delivery fee. Most times I'm not in that much of a hurry and can be in to receive stuff whenever.

As to efficient scheduling surely Sainsbury's should offer a discount on their home delivery fee if you go for the 'green van' slot, you are, after all, saving them money by opting for a delivery when the van is 'in your area'.

 

[AM9]

I'm surprised people put large trolley loads through the self-service, I would have either use the handheld scanners or went to manned checkout. But for a few items I always use the self service, it just isn't worth lining up at a checkout for, unless it is empty or has a fast moving line.

I rarely use any other method than self scanning (known by Waitrose as "quick check"). Very occasionally I might go to a cashier, of if I have (say) no more than 3 items to pay for, use a kiosk to pay for the items by scanning at checkout. Those who insist on manually scanning a trolley load themselves are a pain in the proverbial. They clog up the kiosks for the otherwise 'quick check' users. Having just typed that, I wonder if that is a route for those who weigh loose items and attch a label for a cheaper product.

Aside from the UI problem the other issues I find are that the hardware on self services is either faulty or not calibrated correctly and in conjunction with the weight not being recorded correctly on the computer causes issues. I remember one day the Sunday Times came with extra sections meaning it was heavier but no-one had updated the weight (or the tolerence was outside of what it was expecting). Pretty much everyone with an ST had an unexpected item in the bagging area!

I never have issues with the quick check mode because unless there is a rescan, my purchased goods never come into contact with the IT controlled scales/bagging area.

 

[Tom B]

I also never ever use the self checkouts.
Our Tesco no longer sells loose carrots, which is a huge problem for us single people as a 1kg bag is too big. Someone suggested this may be to get round the issue of them being wrongly used at the self service checkouts.

More likely to remove the need to have calibrated scales on all tills (checked daily and probably with a contract for a W&M inspector to come out every so often) - allows a saving of some time each day plus a contract cost.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I use Tesco self service and I find it frustrating that, after the computer has worked out the weight of loose fruit on the scales, it then claims that when I put iit n my bag it's 'unexpected' - I assumed because it had registered a different weight. The assistant then comes over and looks in the bag and always clears it.
But it's occurred to me that maybe it's to check I haven't tried to declare cooking apples and sneak avocados in. Me?

 

[takno]

I use Tesco self service and I find it frustrating that, after the computer has worked out the weight of loose fruit on the scales, it then claims that when I put iit n my bag it's 'unexpected' - I assumed because it had registered a different weight. The assistant then comes over and looks in the bag and always clears it.
But it's occurred to me that maybe it's to check I haven't tried to declare cooking apples and sneak avocados in. Me?

if you scan your clubcard first it might do it less. Not really sure why they don't stick a camera and some AI on there. If it detected what you were buying it would save time looking through menus as well

 

[Ediswan]

if you scan your clubcard first it might do it less. Not really sure why they don't stick a camera and some AI on there. If it detected what you were buying it would save time looking through menus as well

It can be done. I came across a camera-based 'weigh your own fruit and veg' system in a French supermarket some years ago.

 

[Mojo]

It can be done. I came across a camera-based 'weigh your own fruit and veg' system in a French supermarket some years ago.

A Sainsbury’s I visit regularly has this, but only for the scales that are in the fruit and veg aisles. You place the item on the scales and it knows what you have placed on them, you just press the button to issue a label.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You place the item on the scales and it knows what you have placed on them, you just press the button to issue a label.

How's it know the difference between carrots and avocados (to use a previous example) and/or bananas and/or loose potatoes, before it prints the label?

 

[Merle Haggard]

if you scan your clubcard first it might do it less. Not really sure why they don't stick a camera and some AI on there. If it detected what you were buying it would save time looking through menus as well

Thanks, I'll try that. The menu is a bit confusing - I recently nearly got charged £8.40 for four loose oranges - had touched 'fruit' then the first oranges icon, top left corner, turned out that was for packs (of 5, I think). It presumably weighed them but didn't produce an error message, curiously.
I personally use the self checkout to make sure I'm charged correctly - the cashiers are too quick to do that. Even then, (like other railwaymen I know) I rely heavily on 'reduced to clear' food, sometimes the scanner reads the original full price barcode if the sticker isn't correctly applied - that happens in Sainsbury, though.

 

[Mike395]

Just going back to the 'scanning to exit the self serve area' discussion - I've noticed a few of these popping up locally (most recently as a 'trial' in a London Sainsburys I went into on Thursday) and whilst I'm sure to a large extent they are theatre (particularly the ones in Morrisons that seem to just be fancy-looking one-way gates, I didn't have to scan my receipt, just walked up to them and they opened!), there clearly is demand for them - they're very commonplace in mainland Europe (see them in pretty much every major supermarket in places like Germany, France and the Nordic countries) so there must be some benefit. My guess (and it's only that!) is that, aside from the deterrence factor, it makes it easier to discreetly stop people suspected of 'mis-scanning' for a manual check without the risk of them running off unimpeded.

 

[Ediswan]

How's it know the difference between carrots and avocados (to use a previous example) and/or bananas and/or loose potatoes, before it prints the label?

A camera. You could, of course, still switch the produce afterwards.