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Supermarkets discussion

jon0844

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The loss of stock may be greater through self check out but it's more than covered by not having to employ a lot of checkout staff.

If self checkouts lost shops money they wouldn't exist.

Once the staff are gone, businesses will still need to increase their profits year on year. At some point, the ridiculous levels of fraud at self checkouts will have to be addressed.

Meanwhile, Amazon are closing many of their stores. Were they simply not competitive enough, or were people finding ways to steal? Would Amazon admit to any issues, for fear of others finding out how to get around their setup?
 
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Hadders

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At some point, the ridiculous levels of fraud at self checkouts will have to be addressed.
There is a huge amount of work happening across the retail industry on this.

Meanwhile, Amazon are closing many of their stores. Were they simply not competitive enough, or were people finding ways to steal?
I think it's a combination of several things. Anyone thinking that stock loss in these stores is nil is wide of the mark. I managed to 'break' their system by selecting items that I was not charged for.

Would Amazon admit to any issues, for fear of others finding out how to get around their setup?
I dount they'd admit publically to issues.
 

Edsmith

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In the case of my local Morrisons, there's usually one staffed checkout invariably with a lengthy queue, or if if you go late in the evening there are none at all and it's self checkout or nothing.
Inevitably there is likely to be a queue at staffed checkouts and they're used mostly by people who aren't in a hurry. My daughter had a part time evening job in Sainsburys and she said it was normally self checkout only in the evening when it was quiet but if somebody doing a big shop wanted a staffed checkout they would open one up.
 

dakta

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I avoid self checkouts where possible, does have the potential to be faster but the unexpected item quickly puts paid to that, at my local asda ive pretty much given up on it as it feels like 1 in 5 items triggers it

it is a fallacy because they've got rid of manned tills i could have used to make room for them, they would have done the job. The couple that are left are a bit 'oversubscribed'

so you could argue that fighting a machine is the fastest way, but only because the alternatives have been slowed
 

dgl

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Tesco and CO-OP (at least) can now override the self-checkouts from their screen which saves a lot of time spent dealing with unexpected items or age verification, personally I like using self-service as I find it easier not having to deal with a cashier, plus I like scanning things myself!

As for trolley shops, there are bigger self-checkouts now that can easily deal with a big shop, though interestingly there used to be self-checkouts with belts for large shops, Asda and Morrisons in Weymouth had them and some Tesco's had them too if I remember correctly. Still had the scales at the end so you could still get unexpected items. I assume that having the conveyor is not really necessary for self-service as items are only put back in the trolley after payment and that the trolley can be put right next to the scanner, something that's not really possible with a manned checkout.
 

birchesgreen

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When i go my main shop i like to use the self-scan thing, the main reason is that i can bag things properly instead of having to rush at a staffed checkout. Its also nice to have a running total...
 

Mojo

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Meanwhile, Amazon are closing many of their stores. Were they simply not competitive enough, or were people finding ways to steal? Would Amazon admit to any issues, for fear of others finding out how to get around their setup?
I just suspect that people weren’t using them. I have a couple of the shops on my usual driving route and they are always empty. The prices simply aren’t competitive even against independent shops or the likes of Tesco Express.

I strongly suspect that Amazon intends these shops as a place to trial and license this technology to other retailers, rather than a long time drive to open bricks and mortar shops. Sainsbury’s at Holborn have been using the Amazon technology in a prototype ‘Local’ shop (not sure if it’s still open) and meanwhile Tesco were trying the technology of an Israeli company at another shop just down the road.
 

gg1

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Heading slightly off topic, does anyone know what happens if a random bag check at a scan and go checkout picks up something you forgot to scan?

It happened to me for the first time last week. Will I be bag checked on every shop for a while now until they're satisfied I'm not trying it on or will the system take into account this has never happened before in the couple of years I've been using the service?
 

birchesgreen

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Heading slightly off topic, does anyone know what happens if a random bag check at a scan and go checkout picks up something you forgot to scan?

It happened to me for the first time last week. Will I be bag checked on every shop for a while now until they're satisfied I'm not trying it on or will the system take into account this has never happened before in the couple of years I've been using the service?
You may be checked again soon, even next time but then back to normal (assuming no more mistakes). We had this a few months ago, embarrassing for my wife as it was the store she worked at, her colleagues were roaring :lol:
 

sannox

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Heading slightly off topic, does anyone know what happens if a random bag check at a scan and go checkout picks up something you forgot to scan?

It happened to me for the first time last week. Will I be bag checked on every shop for a while now until they're satisfied I'm not trying it on or will the system take into account this has never happened before in the couple of years I've been using the service?

I had an issue at Sainsbury's where the checker scanned the same thing twice by mistake. It put me on a cycle of getting checked repeatedly, so much so I don't bother using it any more.
 

jon81uk

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I wonder if the way that the Amazon Fresh stores are doing it is one way forward? I experimentally tried looking round one a few weeks ago: You basically can't get into the shop without first presenting a card/some means by which you can be charged, and then you just pickup whatever you want and walk out, with lots of cameras (and presumably, some very sophisticated software) working out exactly what you've taken from the shelves so they know what to charge you. I can see a few potential issues: Can the system ever make mistakes and if so, how are they resolved? And what about people who want to pay cash? But on the upside, shoplifting becomes almost impossible (other I guess than through fraudulent bank card use), staffing requirements are minimal, and it's extremely quick to shop there with no checkout to go through.
It can fail to spot things, I bought a meal deal with a hot wrap, so I carried the wrap but the other items went into my bag. It failed to charge me for the wrap. As the overall cost was still less than I expected I didn't try to get the mistake resolved! I don't think there is any option to pay cash, but that is a tiny number of people in London now, many cafes/shops are already card only.

They really don't, at least not for a big shop. They're fine if you only have a handful of items but useless for a full weekly shop.

Big shop use a handheld scanner and pack straight into bags as you go round, its easily the fastest method. I even do it with a small shop, scan the Nectar card to get a handset, scan each item and straight into the bag, scan the QR code on the till and then tap contactless and go.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I avoid self checkouts where possible, does have the potential to be faster but the unexpected item quickly puts paid to that, at my local asda ive pretty much given up on it as it feels like 1 in 5 items triggers it

Asda is the worst, I think they have zero tolerances on the bag weight scales so its very easy to trigger unexpected item. I don't live close to an Asda anymore but I stopped using their self scan as it was so frustrating.
 
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gg1

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Big shop use a handheld scanner and pack straight into bags as you go round, its easily the fastest method. I even do it with a small shop, scan the Nectar card to get a handset, scan each item and straight into the bag, scan the QR code on the till and then tap contactless and go.
That's my preference when the option is both available and working, when it's not messing around with a self checkout is a PITA.
 

AM9

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It can fail to spot things, I bought a meal deal with a hot wrap, so I carried the wrap but the other items went into my bag. It failed to charge me for the wrap. As the overall cost was still less than I expected I didn't try to get the mistake resolved! I don't think there is any option to pay cash, but that is a tiny number of people in London now, many cafes/shops are already card only.



Big shop use a handheld scanner and pack straight into bags as you go round, its easily the fastest method. I even do it with a small shop, scan the Nectar card to get a handset, scan each item and straight into the bag, scan the QR code on the till and then tap contactless and go.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



Asda is the worst, I think they have zero tolerances on the bag weight scales so its very easy to trigger unexpected item. I don't live close to an Asda anymore but I stopped using their self scan as it was so frustrating.
I always 'quick check' (using a scanner), and rarely have to manually scan anything at the kiosk station. Occasionallly I get a rescan in mwhich the attendant is prompted how many items to pick to scan. The staff that I know there say that the results of the rescan are unknown to them but the welcome desk can find out if asked. The only problems I have is the ridiculous time that people who do self scan take when they have a full sized trolley with about 50 items in. The store's cashiers are much faster doing that on their conveyer belts, and it doesn't delay those who have the loyalty cards using quick check.
 

SuspectUsual

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Asda is the worst, I think they have zero tolerances on the bag weight scales so its very easy to trigger unexpected item. I don't live close to an Asda anymore but I stopped using their self scan as it was so frustrating

Never buy a newspaper using a self-scan Asda checkout
 

jon0844

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I had an issue at Sainsbury's where the checker scanned the same thing twice by mistake. It put me on a cycle of getting checked repeatedly, so much so I don't bother using it any more.

So far, to the best of my knowledge, the only mistake I've made is scanning an item that I put back on the shelf and didn't remove* - so I actually paid for something I didn't buy!

* Sometimes you need to scan the barcode again to remove, although generally these days it's just a case of deleting it from your basket.
 

Ken X

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Here's a question for the experienced supermarket users.

I don't buy much, probably about a bags worth split over two bags for a balanced carry. I like to put my empty bags on the scales so I can scan and load in one operation.

In the past this has kicked up all manner of errors, but I have worked out that if I assemble my two empty bags on the weighing platform before scanning the first item, I can get away with loading my bags as I scan. Is it possible that the scales zero themselves on receiving the first item scan, thereby tareing out the weight of my bags, or are the scales getting less sensitive? Just curious. :)
 

SuspectUsual

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Here's a question for the experienced supermarket users.

I don't buy much, probably about a bags worth split over two bags for a balanced carry. I like to put my empty bags on the scales so I can scan and load in one operation.

In the past this has kicked up all manner of errors, but I have worked out that if I assemble my two empty bags on the weighing platform before scanning the first item, I can get away with loading my bags as I scan. Is it possible that the scales zero themselves on receiving the first item scan, thereby tareing out the weight of my bags, or are the scales getting less sensitive? Just curious. :)

Most (all??) self-scan terminals have a "I'm using my own bags" option available at the start of the transaction that facilitates exactly that
 

birchesgreen

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Most (all??) self-scan terminals have a "I'm using my own bags" option available at the start of the transaction that facilitates exactly that
How well this works though varies a lot between chains. Lidl seem fine but Sainsburys go loopy if you breathe a bit too hard on it.
 

Mojo

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Most (all??) self-scan terminals have a "I'm using my own bags" option available at the start of the transaction that facilitates exactly that
However in my experience when you select this it still throws a hissy fit and insists on manual verification. Hence why I never pack my shopping until after I have paid.
 

skyhigh

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However in my experience when you select this it still throws a hissy fit and insists on manual verification. Hence why I never pack my shopping until after I have paid.
It depends on how they've been configured. When you press that you're using your own bag, it will accept up to a certain weight to account for the weight of the bags. If you place a heavier bag (e.g. woven canvas or backpack) or a bag with something else already in it then it might not be accepted. This is to try and stop fraud. In my experience Morrisons have the least tolerance for bag weight - too many plastic bags will set it off.
 

gg1

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It depends on how they've been configured. When you press that you're using your own bag, it will accept up to a certain weight to account for the weight of the bags. If you place a heavier bag (e.g. woven canvas or backpack) or a bag with something else already in it then it might not be accepted. This is to try and stop fraud. In my experience Morrisons have the least tolerance for bag weight - too many plastic bags will set it off.
That explains why it always happens for me, I use hessian/canvas shopping bags.
 

skyhigh

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That explains why it always happens for me, I use hessian/canvas shopping bags.
The idea is basically to stop people putting bags with unscanned items straight in the bagging area. Obviously it's a bit of a compromise and doesn't work for everyone.
 

Hadders

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I strongly suspect that Amazon intends these shops as a place to trial and license this technology to other retailers
This is exactly what Amazon are doing.

Sainsbury’s at Holborn have been using the Amazon technology in a prototype ‘Local’ shop (not sure if it’s still open) and meanwhile Tesco were trying the technology of an Israeli company at another shop just down the road.
The Sainsbury's at Holborn is still trading. Interestingly the Tesco Express along the road was 'Get Go' only but you can now enter like a normal shop and pay a a self scan checkout.
 

Puffing Devil

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Self Scan with a Supermarket "Gun" or App all the way! Faster than any checkout and easy to pack as you go.
 

Mojo

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Ironically queues in the Sainsburys near my work have now got worse because some of the “basket” self service checkouts have been removed and replaced with trolley self-service checkouts. It’s a mid-sized shop but with the majority of traffic treating it like a convenience store with very few trolleys.

The only time I ever had to queue up in there was on weekend afternoons, now the last few times I’ve gone there including weekdays there has been a queue. It supports the SmartShop App but it doesn’t have instore scanners so SmartShop has a very poor uptake and I still have to queue up with everyone else.
 

Puffing Devil

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The gun yes but apps on mobiles can be troublesome and slow, especially with poorly labelled items.

I did Asda last night and the app was pretty good, though not as fast as a "gun". Edit to add - they had guns in the store but were all off/unavailable at 2020, store closed at 2100.
 

Hadders

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The problem with using the app on a phone rather than a store supplied handset is the phone network. It's generally best if you're connected to the store wi-fi because mobile phone signals aren't always the best in a large shop.
 

GusB

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While I can see the merits of using self-serve checkouts, I still don't think they're the panacea that everyone makes them out to be. It's only quick if people know what they're doing and are used to the process, but there are some customers who struggle with technology in general and end up taking so much time dealing with all the quirks and foibles that robotills bring. My dad became quite used to using them until he had his stroke, then it became quite painful to watch as he fumbled about with having to deal with his shopping, payment, Nectar card etc.; it would have been far quicker and, dare I say, kinder if the staff monitoring those tills had directed him to a staffed checkout. I was with my mum when she first used one of Asda's robotills and she vowed that she'd never use one again because it threw up so many errors and staff intervention was required several times.

If you have a large trolley full of shopping, or multiple trolleys, it makes zero sense to have the customer unload their shopping, scan it and then have to pack it at the end when having a member of staff in the middle can significantly reduce the amount of time it takes. Not everyone appreciates having help to pack their bags, but it used to be a "customer delight" moment when someone had loaded up with more than they anticipated buying and they were asked for help to pack their bags.

The whole scan-as-you-go thing isn't new (Shop'n'Go was a thing when I worked for Safeway years ago), and some customers might prefer it, but I really object to the removal of choice.
 

jon0844

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The problem with using the app on a phone rather than a store supplied handset is the phone network. It's generally best if you're connected to the store wi-fi because mobile phone signals aren't always the best in a large shop.
Yes, this is very good advice. Otherwise the apps these days are incredibly fast and accurate to scan. Some are better than others, and I do like Asda for allowing you to search for any item and it telling you where it is in the store.

The bigger issue at Asda used to be their checkouts not reading the barcode on a phone screen very well. I think they changed from laser to a regular camera, which has now eliminated this problem (the same on the railway - the newer code readers are far quicker and more accurate than the first generation, so stations getting equipped now will be far more reliable).

Tesco needs an app. They switch the scanners off at night, so I won't do anything more than buy one or two items. The main checkouts are also closed then, so I would have to put a trolley through self scan which is too slow. But Tesco don't want people shopping late at night anymore, especially now they close at midnight instead of remaining open.
 

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