Supermarkets and Covid-19

[route101]

I forgot to mention yesterday that Tesco had positioned a poor young guy at the entrance trying to give you hand sanitizer.

We are also back to having to walk round the block if you arrive at the car park to get in as one end is exit and the other is entrance.

Both ends have one main door and then two internal doors. I don’t see the advantage of avoiding this minor pinch point when you walk past everyone in the store.

It’s all theatre taken by the masses as court martial offences is transgressed.

Guy at Morrisons was at the door offering hand sanitiser plus a small queue to get in.6

 

[greyman42]

That isn't why they do it. They have a maximum capacity, so by limiting entry to one per household, they can allow more 'households' in the store at any one time, so shorter queues.

The maximum capacity has not changed since "lockdown 2". There were no queues before that date so i see no reason for there to be queues now, therefore there is no need to limit entry to one person per household.

 

[6862]

Currently queueing for my local Tesco. I thought we had left this nonsense behind, but clearly not!

 

[bramling]

It doesn't always work out that way. On several occasions couples were inadvertently admitted to our local, whereupon they did one or more of the following:

both dart backwards and forwards to and from their trolley creating a randomly moving obstruction​

create a two person blockage whilst they debate the finer points of their shopping choices​

park one of them with their trolley, (usually the husband/child) in several awkward locations thereby creating another blockage.​

You and your partner may be super efficient avoiding any of the above but that certainly isn't the norm. As was said above, shops are now working against a maximum number of simultaneous occupants in the sales area so allowing a party of two (or more) reduces the number of households that can be served, - two shoppers together don't take half the time from entrance to exit however efficency they are.

These are all facts of life, and irritating though they may be it’s something we have to accept. We shouldn’t be using Covid as a means of trying to tackle pet irritants, tempting though it may be at times.

I’m well up for an argument over this one. We actually had it at my local Waitrose a little while back, suffice to say we went in together, ending up taking two trollies, one of which was promptly discarded in the store. And we haven’t returned to Waitrose since.

 

[birchesgreen]

It doesn't always work out that way. On several occasions couples were inadvertently admitted to our local, whereupon they did one or more of the following:

both dart backwards and forwards to and from their trolley creating a randomly moving obstruction​

create a two person blockage whilst they debate the finer points of their shopping choices​

park one of them with their trolley, (usually the husband/child) in several awkward locations thereby creating another blockage.​

You and your partner may be super efficient avoiding any of the above but that certainly isn't the norm. As was said above, shops are now working against a maximum number of simultaneous occupants in the sales area so allowing a party of two (or more) reduces the number of households that can be served, - two shoppers together don't take half the time from entrance to exit however efficency they are.

Where do you shop? I'll arrange a very slow moving rolling roadblock in the frozen goods aisle to annoy you.

Personally i don't get that worried about what other people do in shops, annoying or whatever. Maybe someone finds you annoying and is complaining about you on some other specialist forum?

 

[DelayRepay]

Personally i don't get that worried about what other people do in shops, annoying or whatever. Maybe someone finds you annoying and is complaining about you on some other specialist forum?

I don't get worried, but I would get irritated if I was required to queue outside in the rain, while the shop was full of couples who could shop alone, thereby making space for me to get in.

I just think we should all do what we can to make life easier for others, whatever we think of the rules. It's not a huge sacrifice to separate yourself from your partner for an hour or so while one does the shopping.

 

[Hadders]

The maximum capacity has not changed since "lockdown 2". There were no queues before that date so i see no reason for there to be queues now, therefore there is no need to limit entry to one person per household.

With non-essential retail closed visiting supermarkets has become a leisure activity in some areas. For example, the shop in my local town with the largest queue to enter was Primark, it doesn't need many of these people to spend their time at supermarkets instead to start causing a problem.

 

[bramling]

I don't get worried, but I would get irritated if I was required to queue outside in the rain, while the shop was full of couples who could shop alone, thereby making space for me to get in.

And herein lies the problem, blame the couples just doing a completely normal activity in a perfectly reasonable manner, rather than the likes of Johnson and Hancock for coming up with these pointless and ineffective rules.

Yes you’re right it’s not a *major* sacrifice, but I’m now at the point where I am completely sick of making sacrifices to appease a segment of society, and am no longer prepared to do it.

Anyone who is bothered about having to queue as a result of couples in the supermarket should visit at a quieter time, and if this is a problem then perhaps communicate displeasure towards those who are making these rancid rules.

I had really hoped we were past the worst of what we saw in the likes of April and May, yet quite a few elements of this have now returned. In fact, it’s worse now as the weather is dreary, the days are shorter, and we’re not even getting some of the positives like clean air.

 

[AM9]

I don't get worried, but I would get irritated if I was required to queue outside in the rain, while the shop was full of couples who could shop alone, thereby making space for me to get in.

I just think we should all do what we can to make life easier for others, whatever we think of the rules. It's not a huge sacrifice to separate yourself from your partner for an hour or so while one does the shopping.

Precisely. For those who aren't quite joined at the hip, there's waiting out in the car park for their partner to help them load their purchases into to the car.
It irritates sometimes, but I can rationalise it as yet another example of inconsiderate behaviour in difficult times. Given the problems that some of these couples create, I think they will be less tolerated in the second wave restrictions that are now in place. No doubt when challenged, they will bleat about their 'human rights'.

 

[DB]

And herein lies the problem, blame the couples just doing a completely normal activity in a perfectly reasonable manner, rather than the likes of Johnson and Hancock for coming up with these pointless and ineffective rules.

Yes you’re right it’s not a *major* sacrifice, but I’m now at the point where I am completely sick of making sacrifices to appease a segment of society, and am no longer prepared to do it.

Anyone who is bothered about having to queue as a result of couples in the supermarket should visit at a quieter time, and if this is a problem then perhaps communicate displeasure towards those who are making these rancid rules.

I had really hoped we were past the worst of what we saw in the likes of April and May, yet quite a few elements of this have now returned. In fact, it’s worse now as the weather is dreary, the days are shorter, and we’re not even getting some of the positives like clean air.

Quite.

As a single person, I have no objection at all to couples shopping together. I normally do the shopping in the evening, both because it's quieter, and there won't be door guardians wittering on about masks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2020 ==

Precisely. For those who aren't quite joined at the hip, there's waiting out in the car park for their partner to help them load their purchases into to the car.
It irritates sometimes, but I can rationalise it as yet another example of inconsiderate behaviour in difficult times. Given the problems that some of these couples create, I think they will be less tolerated in the second wave restrictions that are now in place. No doubt when challenged, they will bleat about their 'human rights'.

Yep, the government's divide and conquer strategy is definitely working...

 

[bramling]

Precisely. For those who aren't quite joined at the hip, there's waiting out in the car park for their partner to help them load their purchases into to the car.
It irritates sometimes, but I can rationalise it as yet another example of inconsiderate behaviour in difficult times. Given the problems that some of these couples create, I think they will be less tolerated in the second wave restrictions that are now in place. No doubt when challenged, they will bleat about their 'human rights'.

By the same token I find it highly inconsiderate for people to expect others to change their behaviour for no real reason apart from their own slight perceived convenience.

And from a practical point of view having two people makes the whole checkout process far easier. How inconsiderate of me!

 

[birchesgreen]

Given the problems that some of these couples create, I think they will be less tolerated in the second wave restrictions that are now in place. No doubt when challenged, they will bleat about their 'human rights'.

I hope you reflect on these foolish words later on.

 

[farleigh]

Precisely. For those who aren't quite joined at the hip, there's waiting out in the car park for their partner to help them load their purchases into to the car.
It irritates sometimes, but I can rationalise it as yet another example of inconsiderate behaviour in difficult times. Given the problems that some of these couples create, I think they will be less tolerated in the second wave restrictions that are now in place. No doubt when challenged, they will bleat about their 'human rights'.

What an absurd state we have reached when people complain about people going to a supermarket together.

Similarly, describing people who are trying to exercise a basic freedom as 'bleaters'.

Wouldn't have believed it a year ago.

 

[Darandio]

Precisely. For those who aren't quite joined at the hip, there's waiting out in the car park for their partner to help them load their purchases into to the car.
It irritates sometimes, but I can rationalise it as yet another example of inconsiderate behaviour in difficult times. Given the problems that some of these couples create, I think they will be less tolerated in the second wave restrictions that are now in place. No doubt when challenged, they will bleat about their 'human rights'.

Is this what we have come to? Speechless.

 

[island]

I heard a rumor that Asda, Sainsbury's and Tesco were to start only letting one person per household in at any one time.

??

*rumour

Sainsbury's, at least, has stated this through its social media channels, but only (so far) expressed as "we ask that only one adult per family enter the store where possible". Enforcement seems to be at the discretion of stores.

 

[big_rig]

Is this what we have come to? Speechless.

A thought I had today while enjoying a lovely country walk & visit to a bustling town full of happy people having a drink and by and large not caring about the social bubble or whatever was that it is going to be quite a shock for the most neurotic people in society when they go outside and find everything is no longer to their liking. Everything in life has been micromanaged for so long to meet their most petty and silly desires, including barring the crime of couples shopping together, but it’s really done its dash now hasn’t it now we know it’s Covid, not Ebola.

 

[AM9]

These are all facts of life, and irritating though they may be it’s something we have to accept. We shouldn’t be using Covid as a means of trying to tackle pet irritants, tempting though it may be at times.

I’m well up for an argument over this one. We actually had it at my local Waitrose a little while back, suffice to say we went in together, ending up taking two trollies, one of which was promptly discarded in the store. And we haven’t returned to Waitrose since.

They are aspects of normal life and don't cause any particular problems. These aren't normal times and it is necessary to suspend some aspects of behaviour that are acceptable in normal times. In this case, shops are limited by law on how many members of the public can be in them at a time. If every other person took somebody else along withn them it would effectively reduce the throughput capacity of the shop by 1/3. So the single person who doesn't flaunt the rules or doesn't have any personal assitant to drag around the shop with them, has to wait longer to do their shop or in extreme cases, may not even get into the shop before closing time.
Once again, it's the pure selfishness of those who just won't make even the most minute temporary concession when asked.

 

[Darandio]

In this case, shops are limited by law on how many members of the public can be in them at a time.

What law? It's limited by the discretion of the shop isn't it?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Anecdotes from this sunny morning:

No queues first thing and fresh bread! What more could a guy need?!

Apart from a woman at night but that isn't for this thread!

 

[Sprinter153]

So the single person who doesn't flaunt the rules...

I’ve been sick of people saying this since March. To flaunt is to show off, the correct word is flout.

 

[AM9]

I hope you reflect on these foolish words later on.

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them foolish. That trick doesn't work with me.

Where do you shop? I'll arrange a very slow moving rolling roadblock in the frozen goods aisle to annoy you.

Personally i don't get that worried about what other people do in shops, annoying or whatever. Maybe someone finds you annoying and is complaining about you on some other specialist forum?

I shop in Waitrose where for the most part, customers are content to follow reasonable requests. Occasionally unruly customers enter the store and spout how much they will do what they wish. They are usually dispatched promptly by polite staff action. John Lewis partners have a policy of not challenging disruptive customers, which is why uniformed security staff are now hired to enforce the rules of the shop. They have enough civil customers to not worry about the loudmouths who say that they'll never go there again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2020 ==

I’ve been sick of people saying this since March. To flaunt is to show off, the correct word is flout.

Sorry to exacerbate your sickness, I stand corrected, I meant flout.

 

[farleigh]

They are aspects of normal life and don't cause any particular problems. These aren't normal times and it is necessary to suspend some aspects of behaviour that are acceptable in normal times. In this case, shops are limited by law on how many members of the public can be in them at a time. If every other person took somebody else along withn them it would effectively reduce the throughput capacity of the shop by 1/3. So the single person who doesn't flaunt the rules or doesn't have any personal assitant to drag around the shop with them, has to wait longer to do their shop or in extreme cases, may not even get into the shop before closing time.
Once again, it's the pure selfishness of those who just won't make even the most minute temporary concession when asked.

I would love to be asked. You seem to be telling

 

[DB]

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them foolish. That trick doesn't work with me.

I shop in Waitrose where for the most part, customers are content to follow reasonable requests. Occasionally unruly customers enter the store and spout how much they will do what they wish. They are usually dispatched promptly by polite staff action. John Lewis partners have a policy of not challenging disruptive customers, which is why uniformed security staff are now hired to enforce the rules of the shop. They have enough civil customers to not worry about the loudmouths who say that they'll never go there again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2020 ==


Sorry to exacerbate your sickness, I stand corrected, I meant flout.

John Lewis is not doing too well at the moment - they can't Really afford to alienate Waitrose customers.

 

[AM9]

I’ve been sick of people saying this since March. To flaunt is to show off, the correct word is flout.

Sorry to exacerbate your sickness, I stand corrected, I meant flout.

What law? It's limited by the discretion of the shop isn't it?

Yes, here is an article explaining soem of the current restrictions imposed on shops and being passed down to shoppers:
https://www.lovemoney.com/news/9407...burys-morrisons-waitrose-coronavirus-pandemic

Any restrictions on shoppers?
Yes, Waitrose is currently limiting the number of customers in its shops and has requested that couples and families don’t shop together.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2020 ==

I would love to be asked. You seem to be telling

Sorry, I shop mostly in Waitrose. They rarely need to do more than ask there, but some posters here seem to get told so I would assume that they might end up being told to at Waitrose as well if they went there. See my last post with a link on the restrictions being placed on shops now.

 

[Darandio]

Yes, here is an article explaining soem of the current restrictions imposed on shops and being passed down to shoppers:
https://www.lovemoney.com/news/9407...burys-morrisons-waitrose-coronavirus-pandemic

But nothing about any store being limited by law about how many members of the public can be in them at any one time because there isn't one. You made that up.

 

[farleigh]

Sorry to exacerbate your sickness, I stand corrected, I meant flout.


Yes, here is an article explaining soem of the current restrictions imposed on shops and being passed down to shoppers:
https://www.lovemoney.com/news/9407...burys-morrisons-waitrose-coronavirus-pandemic

Sp you have posted an article to support your assertion that only one person per family are allowed to enter a shop which actually refutes your assertion

Saved me a job - thank you

 

[bramling]

Sorry to exacerbate your sickness, I stand corrected, I meant flout.


Yes, here is an article explaining soem of the current restrictions imposed on shops and being passed down to shoppers:
https://www.lovemoney.com/news/9407...burys-morrisons-waitrose-coronavirus-pandemic



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2020 ==


Sorry, I shop mostly in Waitrose. They rarely need to do more than ask there, but some posters here seem to get told so I would assume that they might end up being told to at Waitrose as well if they went there. See my last post with a link on the restrictions being placed on shops now.

It’s interesting that here Waitrose seems to feel the need to have the most arsey people out the front telling people what they can’t do, and always seems to have a queue even at quieter times of day, yet the local Tesco (admittedly the store is *slightly* more spacious) seems not to feel the need for another such measures and everything seems to work just fine.

But then it’s a bit like the false notion that John Lewis somehow offers a superior experience. By a TV from Tesco and if there’s any issue it will be replaced with no hassle. By contrast I’ve had more trouble from John Lewis over the years than any other retailer.

 

[Freightmaster]

In this case, shops are limited by law on how many members of the public can be in them at a time.

Are they?? I'm not aware of any part of the current legislation which specifies "by law" the number of customers allowed
to be inside retail outlets at any one time other than the ongoing guidance with regard to social distancing, which admittedly
has caused some retailers to restrict access, but that is only really necessary in smaller 'high street' supermarkets such as Spar,
Co-op, Tesco Metro, etc. where space is severely restricted at the best of times; normal supermarkets are large enough to
comfortably absorb anyone who wants to visit without causing social distancing issues in the store even if everyone decided
to visit as a couple.

Once again, it's the pure selfishness of those who just won't make even the most minute temporary concession when asked.

Temporary????! Do you really think that these pointless rules will not still be in place in six months time??





MARK

 

[Hadders]

There is no law that restricts the number of customers allowed in a shop.

However....

Shops are required to operate in a Covid secure manner for the sake of their staff and customers (I believe this is a legal requirement under H&S legislation). I have said this before several times already in this thread and will say it again for further clarification:

Stores set a limit on the number of customers allowed onto the sales floor at any one time. This is based on the sales area. Most of the time the number will be higher than the number of customers shopping int he tore at any one time and you will not have to queue to enter. If you shop in a store that has a high footfall there might be times when you do have to queue to enter.

The current lockdown has not altered the number of customers allowed to enter stores (in fact I know of one supermarket where the numbers allowed were increased a few weeks ago). We now have a situation where the closure of non-essential retail has meant that in some areas more people are coming to supermarkets to browse and look around as a leisure activity, something they would usually do in a non-essential retail store. This means that some supermarkets have asked customers to shop alone to discourage leisure visits and so that more households can be accommodated at a time.

 

[AM9]

There is no law that restricts the number of customers allowed in a shop.

However....

Shops are required to operate in a Covid secure manner for the sake of their staff and customers (I believe this is a legal requirement under H&S legislation). I have said this before several times already in this thread and will say it again for further clarification:

Stores set a limit on the number of customers allowed onto the sales floor at any one time. This is based on the sales area. Most of the time the number will be higher than the number of customers shopping int he tore at any one time and you will not have to queue to enter. If you shop in a store that has a high footfall there might be times when you do have to queue to enter.

The current lockdown has not altered the number of customers allowed to enter stores (in fact I know of one supermarket where the numbers allowed were increased a few weeks ago). We now have a situation where the closure of non-essential retail has meant that in some areas more people are coming to supermarkets to browse and look around as a leisure activity, something they would usually do in a non-essential retail store. This means that some supermarkets have asked customers to shop alone to discourage leisure visits and so that more households can be accommodated at a time.

Of course the law doesn't specify the number of customers in a specific store but as you say, it places an obligation on the store to operate in a safe manner at any time. The Coronavirus Act 2020 either directly or by virtue of the amendments since it's introduction also requires businesses to control their premises in such a way that it can operate that store meeting the temporary H&S needs of the current situation. In practice, that usually involves conducting a risk assessment that addresses the rules for social distancing, the wearing of face coverings and the regular cleaning of surfaces etc..

The actual figure can of course be modified as the business adapts its working practices, layout and equipment justified by a new or modified risk assessment. That's the way H&S has worked in the UK for decades. A business that fails to meet these obligations renders itself liable to compensation claims, and/or prosecution for PH & H&S offences.

So to come back to the original point, a shop operating in the current emergency is effectively obliged by law to control the number of members of the public entering the premises. Any reasonable restriction that reduces the impact on the majority of their customers can be taken and it seems from the article that I provided a link to, that preventing unnecessary additional persons entering the shop is being adopted by the majority of the major stores.