Super off peak Flitwick to Edinburgh - blocked

[stephy]

I've got to make this journey tomorrow and I need to know what to say when I inevitably get stopped at the gate

I've booked a totally valid Flitwick to Edinburgh Super Off Peak from 0859 at Flitwick. This is the ticket I've been given before after simply booking the ticket with the arrival time of my choosing. But at Flitwick I was stopped before because I'm apparently not allowed to get a Super Off Peak before 0930! (Unsure of exact time). I nearly missed my train before and would have missed my train to Edinburgh - what do I say! The ticket says visit /1K for restrictions but these list the generic super off peak restrictions!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

This is from my Thameslink confirmation email.

 

[Watershed]

In short, anyone who tries to stop you is wrong. It's true that Flitwick to London Super Off-Peak Day Returns aren't valid before 09:28 - but the applicable restrictions depend on the ticket you hold, and you don't hold a Flitwick to London ticket.

Instead, you presumably hold a Flitwick to Edinburgh Super Off-Peak Single, which as per restriction code 9F*, is only restricted for your journey from London onwards; there are no restrictions on your travel between Flitwick and London. There's nothing generic about 1K or 9F - the restrictions applicable to your ticket are those which are stated on the linked restriction code.

Furthermore, you're contractually entitled to travel in accordance with the itinerary you're given when buying your ticket. So even if Thameslink had made a mistake in selling you the Super Off-Peak ticket for the 08:59 departure, they would still have to honour travel on it.

In the event you're wrongly denied boarding at Flitwick, you'd be entitled to claim compensation (commensurate to Delay Repay at a minimum, I'd have said). Alternatively, if you were wrongly told you had to pay something extra, you'd be entitled to claim that back.

*Unless it's the return portion of an Edinburgh to Flitwick Super Off-Peak Return which you bought before LNER abolished most of their return fares, in which case it's 1K - which is a mirror image of 9F.

 

[jfollows]

Restriction code 9F for ticket https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=FLT&dest=EDB&expert=on&flow=0&multi=0&fare=2&ldn=1&tkt=SSS

Outward Travel: Monday to Friday restrictions

Not valid for departures from:

• London Terminals (except as shown below) after 02:59 and before 09:06 and after 14:59 and before 18:59 (18:15 on Fridays);
• London Liverpool Street after 04:29 and before 09:30 and after 16:29 and before 18:34;
• London St Pancras International after 04:29 and before 10:05 and after 15:34 and before 18:47;
• London Euston after 04:29 and before 09:05;
• Stevenage after 02:59 and before 09:19 and after 15:07 and before 19:01 (18:35 on Fridays);
• Luton after 02:29 and before 10:25 and after 15:23 and before 19:23;
• Luton Airport Parkway after 02:29 and before 10:51 and after 15:08 and before 19:10;
• Bedford after 04:29 and before 10:30;
• Watford Junction after 04:29 and before 09:00;
• Milton Keynes Central after 04:29 and before 09:00.

Return Travel
Not valid for arrivals into:

• London Terminals (except as shown below) after 04:29 and before 11:17;
• London Liverpool Street after 04:29 and before 10:00;
• London St Pancras International after 04:29 and before 11:26;
• London Euston after 04:29 and before 10:05, except on Caledonian Sleepers (with supplement);
• Stevenage after 04:29 and before 10:55;
• Luton or Luton Airport Parkway after 04:29 and before 10:26;
• Bedford after 04:29 and before 10:30;
• Watford Junction after 04:29 and before 09:00;
• Milton Keynes Central after 04:29 and before 09:00.

Restrictions will be lifted for trains departing from and arriving at London Kings Cross and Stevenage on a Friday until further notice.

Clearly ”return travel” doesn’t apply to this single ticket.

 

[Merseysider]

If you are very quick on your feet & know where you're going, you may even make the 10:00 departure (destination Aberdeen) which would save almost an hour - arrives Edinburgh 14:22 instead of 15:09. Your ticket would of course be valid but personally I'd want a seat reservation.

 

[stephy]

Yes I hold a super off peak single Flitwick to Edinburgh. Restriction says 1k but when I go to that link, it doesn't say anything about being allowed before 0928 I just know I'll get hassle.

 

[Merseysider]

I'm not sure why you're seeing a 1K restriction on a Super Off Peak single - it should be 9F.

National Rail website correctly validates the single for travel at your chosen time on Fridays (ironically except for tomorrow as LNER have decided they're "sold out").

 

[stephy]

Youre right - I was looking at my ticket in the other direction which is 1K.

Isn't it valid at this time any day of the week?

 

[Watershed]

Youre right - I was looking at my ticket in the other direction which is 1K.

Isn't it valid at this time any day of the week?

Yes, it is. And given that you're travelling on a Friday, it would in fact be valid at any time of day, as there are no time restrictions from Kings Cross. The same would apply on weekends and Bank Holidays.

 

[stephy]

When did this Friday thing come about? I had no idea!

I have a seat reservation but I'm not sure where my toddler is going to go as she is free to travel!

 

[jfollows]

When did this Friday thing come about? I had no idea!

From August 2020, I think. Avanti did the same (or similar) in 2018. For LNER restriction 9F says “until further notice”, see above (post 3).

 

[Merseysider]

When did this Friday thing come about? I had no idea!

I have a seat reservation but I'm not sure where my toddler is going to go as she is free to travel!

As far as I know there is no automatic entitlement for a free child to take a seat, but having double checked the NRCOT there also isn't anything prohibiting a free child from taking a seat.

(As far as I can see!)

If you want to state which seat you have (or PM it to me) I can reserve the seat next to you (if free).

 

[CyrusWuff]

As far as I know there is no automatic entitlement for a free child to take a seat, but having double checked the NRCOT there also isn't anything prohibiting a free child from taking a seat.

(As far as I can see!)

If you want to state which seat you have (or PM it to me) I can reserve the seat next to you (if free).

Whilst it's not specified in the NRCoT, the (admittedly non-contractual) Train Travel with Children page on NRE states "Please note, children under 5 who are travelling without a ticket may only occupy a seat that is not required by a fare-paying passenger. To have a reserved seat for a child under 5 you will need to purchase a child rate ticket."

 

[island]

In the event you're wrongly denied boarding at Flitwick, you'd be entitled to claim compensation (commensurate to Delay Repay at a minimum, I'd have said).

Assuming the passenger is late at the final destination, of course. In the OP’s scenario, were they to take the 09:29 train arriving 10:19 and still make the 10:30 departure, which is not especially difficult to do for someone who knows where they’re going, I do not see any route to compensation.

 

[stephy]

Just back here - lol, yes without a toddler and pushchair etc in tow then 11 mins to make the train would normally be doable as I know exactly what I'm doing, but toddlers complicate things somewhat.

As predicted, the person at the gate started to tell me my ticket wasn't valid but I basically threw all the info at him quickly and said I'm in a hurry and he gave up.

I was also able to find a seat for my child both ways and was never asked if she had a child ticket in order the occupy the seat. So all in all, a relief!

Thank you for the offer of help for the seat reservation! What I actually ended up doing was getting the 11am, and I got on it early enough to find 2 free seats (as it turned out I didn't have a reservation either for some odd reason despite having a seat reservation ticket printer - which was blank...)

 

[reb0118]

As an aside an adult & a child ticket discounted with a friends & family railcard is cheaper than an adult ticket on its own.

 

[stephy]

I have a different railcard - but thank you for this tip.

 

[yorkie]

Did you contact GTR about the wrong information, and attempt at overcharging you at Flitwick? I'd be keen to hear their response.

GTR are in a lot of trouble regarding fares matters at the moment, so it would be interesting to hear more information about how endemic the problems are at GTR.

I'd say GTR should be providing you with something (e.g. Rail Travel Vouchers) as a gesture of goodwill to compensate you for the incorrect information; GTR's actions were unlawful and if customers behave in such a manner, companies like GTR can threaten to prosecute us. So I am keen for GTR to be held to account.

As for the child ticket, @reb0118's advice is sound; without a ticket for the child there can't be an expectation of having a seat for the child (but if the train isn't full and no paying customer needs it, then the child may occupy a spare seat) and so even if you have another Railcard type, it may be worth also having a Family Railcard, depending on the number of journeys you make (and how much you want an additional seat!)