Summoned to court by Northern Rail!!!

[sgtivypie]

Hi everyone,

yesterday I received a court summons from Northern Rail for not purchasing a ticket back in October. They have stated that they are claiming the £5.60 fare plus £100 compensation. I haven't received any penalty notices or anything like that since the incident in October. I have been asked to tick one of 3 options on the form:
1. I accept the evidence and plead guilty, and would like the court to deal with the matter in my absence. Also that I submit a statement of mitigation and financial circumstances.
2. I accept the evidence and plead guilty, and will attend court.
3. I intend to plead not guilty. The case will be adjourned until a new hearing date when witnesses/solicitor can attend.

I'm really not sure what to tick. Please read my statement of mitigation below that I am at the moment intending to submit.

On the 31st October 2013 I travelled from **** to Manchester Victoria by train. I had just started a new job contracted to Network Rail based at Manchester Picadilly train station and this was my first time ever travelling to Manchester by train. On arrival at the station at **** I saw that the ticket office was open but there wasn’t a member of staff sat behind the desk. I waited a good few minutes and still no one came. In the end I had to just go for the train as I would have missed it if I had waited any longer. I thought there might be a ticket conductor on the train whom I could speak to regarding a ticket. However, the train was ridiculously over packed, with not only all the seats full but the aisles completely full to bursting as well, and a ticket conductor didn’t pass through the train during the journey. I assumed that I could speak to someone regarding a ticket once I had gotten off the train. At this point in time I was 12 weeks pregnant and suffering from severe morning sickness. Due to this and the train being so packed that I’d had to stand up the entire journey feeling sick and dizzy, and the fact that it was my first time travelling by train to Manchester I understandably missed my connecting stop and instead of travelling to Manchester Picadilly I ended up at Manchester Victoria. I was upset as I knew this would make me late for work in my new job and I didn’t know how to get from Manchester Victoria to Picadilly. I spoke to the ticket inspectors in Manchester Victoria and explained what had happened and asked if I could purchase a ticket somewhere and also if they could inform me how to get to Manchester Picadilly. They said that it was fine and showed me where to purchase a ticket. As I was stood in the queue to purchase a ticket another member of staff came over and very abruptly asked me to follow him as he needed to speak to me, which I did. The member of staff informed me that he was a Revenue Protection Officer. He asked me why I hadn’t purchased a ticket at Hindley. I explained about the ticket office being empty and I also explained why I hadn’t been able to purchase one on the train and that I was now trying to purchase one. I explained to him about working at Manchester Picadilly, that this was my first time travelling to Manchester by train and about getting lost. I repeatedly asked if I could purchase a ticket and go to work but the Revenue Protection Officer stated that I had to be issued a fine and that he needed to process all my details. I explained that I was pregnant and felt unwell and asked if I could sit down somewhere whilst he processed my details but he refused and said that I had to stand with him. We went through the process of me providing my details and him processing them which took approximately 10 minutes, all the while I was stood there feeling unwell. In fact, the Revenue Protection Officer was rude and abrupt throughout the whole process and clearly lacked any people skills.
I wrote a letter of complaint to Northern Rail regarding this matter and stated that I have no problem paying the fare but that I felt that I should be given an apology first.
I have received no subsequent contact from Northern Rail regarding neither the fine nor my complaint. I assumed that due to the circumstances and my complaint that the matter had been dropped. This whole matter has left me with a very low opinion of Northern Rail and if it wasn’t for necessity I certainly wouldn’t be using their services.
Due to continued work at Manchester Picadilly I have continued to travel by train from ****. In the months since this incident I have found on numerous occasions that the ticket office is opened but seems unmanned. Now that I am able to recognise the staff that regularly work there I have often spotted them around the station undertaking various jobs and have also spotted one particular staff member stood at the front of the station smoking. Clearly at these times people are unable to purchase tickets from the ticket office. Also, it is certainly not an unusual case for the trains to be soo heavily packed that the ticket conductors are completely unable to pass through the train to check or issue tickets. I feel that it is extremely unfair of Northern Rail to penalise people who are unable to purchase tickets due to a poor service.

I know that some of the above is a rant but I'm just soo annoyed.

Or should I ring Northern Rail and try to speak to someone regarding this and try to get it dropped? Obviously I never had any intent to not pay at all, I did try to purchase a ticket. Please bear in mind that the train station that I travelled from is only small and has only one member of staff on duty at any one time so I couldn't simply go and ask another member of staff about a ticket.

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions

 

[yorkie]

There's a lot to read there, but it sounds like you did nothing wrong (unless there's something I've missed) - you asked for the correct ticket at Manchester Victoria, right? If so I can see no reason why they should prosecute you.

You aren't accused of claiming to have come from a station closer to Manchester than where you actually boarded, right?

 

[Greenback]

Have Northern not given you an opportunity to present your side of the story before they decided to proceed to court?

I thought they would normally only go to court straight away if they consider that they have a cast iron case of deliberate fare evasion. I hope this is not a sign of a significant change in policy.

 

[maniacmartin]

The station which you censored out in all but one place doesn't have ticket machines according to National Rail Enquiries' Stations Made Easy. As such, you tried to buy at the earliest opportunity, and have done nothing wrong.

Of course it's a case of your word vs theirs. If you are planning on pleading not guilty, I would get pictures of the office being unmanned in the days leading up to the court date which may help your case.

 

[sgtivypie]

Hi,

no they have all the details of stations etc correct. I did try to purchase a ticket from the correct station. I was very honest about where I had travelled from. I have bought a weekly ticket every Monday since then from the same station.

They haven't ever asked for my side of the story. In the paperwork it says that they sent me a Fixed Penalty Notice of £80 plus the fare (not by Recorded or Signed For delivery) and that I never responded. I am adamant that I never recieved this. As far as I am concerned I was given a fine on the day and have heard nothing since then until this summons.

 

[Clip]

Why are they always rude and unhelpful?

If you are working for Network Rail then you should probably get this sorted pretty sharpish. And ask them for a season ticket loan so you dont have the problem of people not being in the ticket office.

 

[Haywain]

Are we to read that **** and Hindley are the same station or different stations? If they are different, did you ask for a ticket from Hindley, rather than the station where you joined the train? If that is what happened a clear offence was committed.

 

[island]

What offence are you charged with on the summons? Does it have any reference to the Railway Byelaws or to the Regulation of Railways Act?

Also, Northern Rail cannot issue fines so the revenue inspector would (or perhaps should) have not been saying you would be issued one.

 

[sgtivypie]

Yes **** and Hindley are the same. I travelled from Hindley and attempted to purchase a ticket from there. No it doesn't have any self service machines.

The actual wording on the charges is:

On Thursday 31st October 2013 at Manchester Victoria station did enter a train for the purpose of travelling without a valid ticket to entitle travel, contrary to section 219 and schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 as preserved by clause 4 (a) & (b) of the Railways Act 2005 and Byelaw No.18(1) of the National Railway Byelaws in any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

Made under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority as preserved by clause 4 (a) & (b) of the Railways Act 2005.

It is printed exactly as above

 

[bb21]

My suspicion is that your complaint probably gave them the evidence they thought they needed.

 

[Haywain]

My suspicion is that your complaint probably gave them the evidence they thought they needed.

Especially if the wording of the complaint was, as suggested above, along the lines of 'I'm not paying until you apologise'.

 

[island]

This post comes with a gigantic I AM NOT A LAWYER, GET ONE'S ADVICE BEFORE YOU TRY THIS ON warning.

The charge laid states that you entered a train at Manchester Victoria station. But you didn't. You entered the train at Hindley. Therefore it seems to me that you did not commit the offence with which you were charged. A competent defence lawyer should be able to work that argument through in cross-examination.

Another thing to think about is section 18 (3) (i) of the byelaws stating "No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18(1) or 18(2) if there were no facilities in working order for the issue or validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where, he began his journey".

 

[Greenback]

I do think that Northern would be foolish to take court action in the circumstances you describe. You did not have an opportunity to pay at Hindley or on the train, approached staff for assistance in locating the ticket office at the first opportunity and were then penalised.

I would write back havign ticked the form to say that you intend to plead not guilty, and attach a factual statement, without emotion, about what happened. Then see what happens.

But the caveat mentioned by island also applies to my post.

 

[sgtivypie]

The reply on the form goes to the court from my understanding. Is it them that I should be replying to? Or should I be contacting Northern Rail with my reply in the hopes that they drop the case?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, if I plead not guilty then they adjourn and arrange a new hearing date to which I will have to attend. Once in court, even if they decide that I didn't commit the offence stated I still obviosuly didn't purchase a ticket and didn't pay the penalty given to me on the day. Won't they still find me guilty of that and then I'd have to pay court costs as I have lost my case?

 

[Greenback]

The reply on the form goes to the court from my understanding. Is it them that I should be replying to? Or should I be contacting Northern Rail with my reply in the hopes that they drop the case?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, if I plead not guilty then they adjourn and arrange a new hearing date to which I will have to attend. Once in court, even if they decide that I didn't commit the offence stated I still obviosuly didn't purchase a ticket and didn't pay the penalty given to me on the day. Won't they still find me guilty of that and then I'd have to pay court costs as I have lost my case?

You may need to seek legal advice to get an informed answer, but as far as I can tell you haven't done anything wrong.

If the form is to be returned to the court, I woudl do that, and send a copy to Northern with a full, factual, non emotional statement of what happened, including not receiving a demand for £80. I don't think the payment of this amount would have been appropriate eithe rin these circumstances, where you appear to have done everything possible to buy a ticket before boarding the train, and after arriving in Manchester.

My approach, if I were in your shoes, would be to look on my response as an invitation to Northern to come to their senses and not set off on a route that could embarrass them in court.

Of course, nothing in life is guaranteed, but the only other option is to plead guilty, and from what you have written I don't think you are.

 

[swt_passenger]

... I still obviosuly didn't purchase a ticket and didn't pay the penalty given to me on the day.

However Northern don't operate a scheme that allows them to give you a penalty 'on the day'.

That would have to be a bona fide 'penalty fare scheme' set up in accordance with various DfT rules, and they don't have such a scheme. I don't think you should worry about not doing something on the day that could not have happened...

 

[Greenback]

As I read it, there was no penalty on the day, but Northern have, apparently, sent an £80 demand which was not received.

 

[AntoniC]

But the law states that a letter is deemed as being received two days after it was posted, even if the letter wasnt received by the recipient.

I assume that you did provide the correct name and address to the RPO ?.

 

[ed1971]

I often travel from Hindley. It is often the case that the ticket office is open with no one in attendance, with a notice displayed stating that staff are performing other duties on the station.

I was talking to someone else at Hindley a couple of weeks ago, who said she had been charged £80.00 recently under similar circumstances to the OP.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Also, if I plead not guilty then they adjourn and arrange a new hearing date to which I will have to attend. Once in court, even if they decide that I didn't commit the offence stated I still obviosuly didn't purchase a ticket and didn't pay the penalty given to me on the day. Won't they still find me guilty of that and then I'd have to pay court costs as I have lost my case?

We mustn't confuse the non-payment of the fare and the non-payment of the £80 Penalty with the actual offence being Prosecuted. That is the Railway Byelaw Offence of boarding a train without a valid ticket.

If you do plea Not Guilty and are successful in having the charge against you dropped, the Company would be at liberty to seek the fare from you, just not as part of the Court proceedings. In practice, it is unlikely that a failed Prosecution would then try to collect the debt of a single rail fare. Very unlikely indeed.

 

[EC02]

Please note that I am not a lawyer.

Since you have already been summoned to court then, I don't think that you could make things worse by calling northern rail and explaining the situation. Try and speak to a manager as I've heard that some of the staff are not that helpful and a manager is normally more experienced, will listen more and can make a decision there and then. According to your notes, I really think that you should speak to northern rail but don't keep your hopes up about explaining about not receiving the previous post as NR will say that the matter should be addressed to Royal mail not them. However, I think you have a strong case that you did try to buy a ticket from the start and I wonder if there is a CCTV near your station can verify what you are saying?