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Summer staffing issues

Bletchleyite

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So every year, this being no exception, we have lots of staffing issues and thus cancellations.

What is the cause of this? Is it that the railway is so reliant on overtime and nobody will volunteer? Or is it that they aren't competent at planning the correct number of people to be on holiday at once so they end up with too many? Or something else?

How can it be solved? Targetted planned service reductions (as per Avanti etc) perhaps?
 
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vikingdriver

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So every year, this being no exception, we have lots of staffing issues and thus cancellations.

What is the cause of this? Is it that the railway is so reliant on overtime and nobody will volunteer? Or is it that they aren't competent at planning the correct number of people to be on holiday at once so they end up with too many? Or something else?

How can it be solved? Targetted planned service reductions (as per Avanti etc) perhaps?
We have a certain number of drivers who can be off each day and that's your lot and it's meant to allow the service to still run normally. Obviously you still have training, sickness, medicals, etc that may see further drivers non-driving on a particular day.

We very much rely on overtime to keep things running, which I guess is up to the company/government if that's how they choose to staff things. Yes you can sometimes find volunteers dry up on certain days and points of the year. Me personally, I won't be working on my days off during the school holidays - making memories is way more important!

I guess ultimately, more resilience comes at a cost, and an understanding that you'll have staff being unproductive at times but who will be there to keep things running on other days.

We have Sunday inside the week.
 

Harpo

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Me personally, I won't be working on my days off during the school holidays - making memories is way more important!
We tuck ourselves up royally by having school holidays almost entirely synchronised across the nation.
 

speedy1

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Do passenger numbers dip in the school holidays?

(ie is the DfT "correctly" under provisioning based on reduced demand?)
 

bramling

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So every year, this being no exception, we have lots of staffing issues and thus cancellations.

What is the cause of this? Is it that the railway is so reliant on overtime and nobody will volunteer? Or is it that they aren't competent at planning the correct number of people to be on holiday at once so they end up with too many? Or something else?

How can it be solved? Targetted planned service reductions (as per Avanti etc) perhaps?

I don’t think it will readily be solved.

The reality is people don’t particularly want to work at certain times, this being one of them, along with times like Christmas, weekends, bank holidays, half term, major sports events, etc.

Whatever one attempts to do to chip away at this issue, it will return to this basic issue to a greater or lesser extent.

What really doesn’t help is having a reliance on overtime, but even if there wasn’t then things would still be tighter than normal at this time of year. Again, whatever one tries to do, it just isn’t going to go down well forcing people to take leave in February.

And it doesn’t help that half the rest of the population don’t seem to want to work more than about 2 and a half days per week (if that, given the figures about people who aren’t in work at all). So it doesn’t exactly encourage people when they see others swanning around. Another consequence of (the) Covid (response) that we’ve been left with courtesy of Boris and company.
 

Iskra

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It’s just staff choosing not to volunteer for overtime. I suspect that the hot weather has accentuated this. Declining morale and industrial relations in certain areas may be a further factor.

Would you volunteer to work trains on your day off with no/failing air conditioning in sweltering conditions or sit in your garden and enjoy yourself instead?
 

bramling

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This rather depends on how much money was on offer.

Not everyone is motivated by money. For some people you would really have to jack the overtime rate up to something quite crazy before they would even consider doing it, and even some people still wouldn’t. I wouldn’t.

But beware the idea that people will do overtime if the price is right. Yes people will, but a proportion of these will then go sick for their normal booked shifts. So apart from costing a shed load of money, it has started a vicious cycle where you now have to pay a load of OT at your highly inflated rate in order to cover those now-uncovered shifts which wouldn’t have otherwise been.

OT works when people are being paid a rubbish wage so they have to do it just to put food on their table or pay the rent, although the moral rightness of that is a separate discussion. It’ doesn’t work so well when people are being reasonably paid, and all the more so when you have a safety critical role where you don’t want people turning up burned-out.
 

Bletchleyite

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Not everyone is motivated by money.

A very large proportion of people in jobs are, because the purpose of a job is to earn money. The railway probably does have a higher proportion than say Tesco's tills of people who have built up enough money to retire and are simply continuing to work because they enjoy it, and with the ageing workforce there there are probably more of these than there were, but I suspect that to some extent every man* has his price.

* And woman obviously. Not deliberately discriminatory, just that that's what the old saying actually is!

For some people you would really have to jack the overtime rate up to something quite crazy before they would even consider doing it, and even some people still wouldn’t. I wouldn’t.

High overtime rates for time slots where people really don't want to do it otherwise aren't rare in other areas of business. I seem to recall my mother used to do Boxing Day in a bank call centre for quadruple time plus time off in lieu, which was enough to be attractive. Though she wouldn't do Christmas Day for any money, I think they were offering 6x time for that and did get enough people that way (often it would be those from families who due to religion didn't celebrate Christmas, but there weren't quite enough people in that position to get enough at a lower rate).

One could thus argue for a higher overtime rate during school holidays, but one could also see that the unions might head towards industrial action there as it disadvantages parents.

But beware the idea that people will do overtime if the price is right. Yes people will, but a proportion of these will then go sick for their normal booked shifts. So apart from costing a shed load of money, it has started a vicious cycle where you now have to pay a load of OT at your highly inflated rate in order to cover those now-uncovered shifts which wouldn’t have otherwise been.

Obviously you'll get people who very occasionally are in that position because they just didn't sleep well the night after the overtime, perhaps because something particularly stressful happened. But if particular individuals persistently do that aren't you getting into disciplinary territory there (or at least refusal of overtime), as if that person knows they are likely to end up calling in sick the day after doing overtime due to tiredness, then they have made a particularly poor judgement repeatedly and knowingly on an ongoing basis?

OT works when people are being paid a rubbish wage so they have to do it just to put food on their table or pay the rent, although the moral rightness of that is a separate discussion. It’ doesn’t work so well when people are being reasonably paid, and all the more so when you have a safety critical role where you don’t want people turning up burned-out.

This is a good argument not to rely on overtime, though the effect of this in this case would mean you would need to give less time off during the school holidays, which I again suspect would lead to strike action.

Given all this, therefore, is perhaps reducing the timetable (particularly peak extras) on a planned basis the way to go? At least people can then plan, and unlike where it's done with random cancellations based on who shows up you can max out train lengths so capacity is maintained as far as possible. Though this isn't always done well - for instance the planned Avanti cancellations have left MK with a very poor fast service to Birmingham (some three hour gaps) as they've just lopped a few diagrams out rather than going back to working the Scotland service in the slow path south of Birmingham.

As an example, for the WMT services on the south WCML, might it work better to run basically an all week Saturday timetable for the 6 weeks of the holidays? That is, just the base 2 Birmingham, 2 MKC, 2 Tring and 1 Crewe, but with everything 240m long except the Trings for which 5.730 would probably be OK? Or even lop the Trings out too other than from 0600-0900 and 1500-1900? Commuting during the holidays is down so much that this would likely have enough capacity, and if you're lopping some Avantis out too not being able to use 8-car P10 at Euston shouldn't be disastrous. The longer off peak trains will also help for the higher leisure demand.

And as for Avanti, surely reverting the Scotland to the slow path south of Birmingham is better than just randomly lopping a few diagrams out of the semifast? That way MKC doesn't lose a chunk of its service, and removing the whole second fast service will presumably save as many crew diagrams?
 
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Magdalia

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We tuck ourselves up royally by having school holidays almost entirely synchronised across the nation.
This is governed by the examinations timetable.

For parents with school age children, childcare during the school holidays is a significant issue, especially if grandparents are not available to help out.

A very large proportion of people in jobs are, because the purpose of a job is to earn money. The railway probably does have a higher proportion than say Tesco's tills of people who have built up enough money to retire and are simply continuing to work because they enjoy it, and with the ageing workforce there there are probably more of these than there were, but I suspect that to some extent every man has his price.
But that very much depends on how much difference each extra £ makes, and that's a lot more significant for a supermarket worker on or just above the minimum wage than it is for a well paid train driver. For older workers, what pension they have built up is a significant factor too, and people who have had a long career driving trains have very good pensions.

Do passenger numbers dip in the school holidays?

(ie is the DfT "correctly" under provisioning based on reduced demand?)
For commuting into London yes. There is a long discussion on GTR's summer timetable reductions here:

 

vikingdriver

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This rather depends on how much money was on offer.
I imagine this would be a direction to explore, most people have a price!

There are also union related restrictions in some places, and these vary TOC to TOC - for example having to make yourself available by the middle of the previous week, unable to specify particular parts of the day you could work, e.g. earlies, lates, can all limit the number of volunteers.
 

Magdalia

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The only school years hard wired to exam timetables are 6 & 11 but the education industry is hardly renowned for its flexibility.
Neither schools or parents are going to be able to manage different holidays for different age groups.
 

Harpo

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Neither schools or parents are going to be able to manage different holidays for different age groups.
Its only an issue for 9% in affected years. Parents will do fine. Schools wouldn’t struggle but only because they don’t do flexibility.
 

Magdalia

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Its only an issue for 9% in affected years. Parents will do fine. Schools wouldn’t struggle but only because they don’t do flexibility.
Any parent with more than one child would struggle. Schools don't do flexibility because it would cost money.
 

Harpo

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Schools don't do flexibility because it would cost money.
I see education’s issue as a bigger one of being a customer service industry with little interest in the customer. Unless it wants their attention.

I’ll stop there!
 

bramling

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Any parent with more than one child would struggle. Schools don't do flexibility because it would cost money.

I also see it as being one of those “careful what you wish for” things.

The current arrangement essentially gives an opportunity for people to be able to do stuff on weekdays in the period May, June and early July without places and attractions being full of kids, and still hopefully be able to enjoy summer-type weather.

There are plenty of people who will take their leave during that time in order to make the most of this. These people will then work during the summer school holiday period.

I think it’s civilised to essentially have a period set aside where people can enjoy their time off *without* places being packed with kids.

Start tinkering with this arrangement and it will probably introduce some new unintended consequences.
 

Bald Rick

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Do passenger numbers dip in the school holidays?

Yes, across the board, except to certain popular summer destinations - think the coast.


Would you volunteer to work trains on your day off with no/failing air conditioning in sweltering conditions or sit in your garden and enjoy yourself instead?

This rather depends on how much money was on offer.

It also depends on how much you care about your customers and colleagues. I have routinely done Christmas Day / Boxing Day / BH / weekends / nights because I was needed and/or wanted to help those out on the front line.

Don’t get paid for it either.



Are many drivers anywhere near the 100K "marginal rate" issue now?

Yes. Lots. With more every year with each pay deal.
 

Stossgebet

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The 100k threshold hasn't noved since George Osborne introduced itnin, 2011 i think. That's 15 years. It didn't affect so many normal working people back then. But now but has serious consqueuences. And doing something about it, will see a certain bunch of activists yelling 'tax cuts for the rich'!
 

Bald Rick

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The 100k threshold hasn't noved since George Osborne introduced itnin, 2011 i think. That's 15 years. It didn't affect so many normal working people back then. But now but has serious consqueuences. And doing something about it, will see a certain bunch of activists yelling 'tax cuts for the rich'!

2010 budget. Using average earnings as a comparison, £100k now is the equivalent of £57,350 back in 2010.

Put another way, how would people today earning £57,350 to £71,697 feel about paying a marginal tax rate of 60%. Of course this is still above current average earnings, but a lot more people will be in that bracket.
 

Iskra

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It also depends on how much you care about your customers and colleagues. I have routinely done Christmas Day / Boxing Day / BH / weekends / nights because I was needed and/or wanted to help those out on the front line.

Don’t get paid for it either.
I’m sorry, but I don’t see how having rest days (which human beings need), and are contractual and can be mandated; means you don’t care about your job/colleague/customers.
 

Stossgebet

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2010 budget. Using average earnings as a comparison, £100k now is the equivalent of £57,350 back in 2010.

Put another way, how would people today earning £57,350 to £71,697 feel about paying a marginal tax rate of 60%. Of course this is still above current average earnings, but a lot more people will be in that bracket.
Then there's the cumulative effect of how it this punitive tax rate is paid.
I Imagine most staff affected by it are taxed via PAYE. And going over the 100k results in a tax bill for 'under paid' tax.
Can you imagine what a frustrating effect that has on some peoples williningness to continue going above and beyond for public service!
 

6Gman

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More people will want to take leave in July than in February. On that basis if you have staffing high enough to cover everything in July without overtime you are going to have excessive spare cover in February. Or you need to persuade people (or force them) to take annual leave at unpopular times.

Simple maths, unless my figures are wrong.
 

Stossgebet

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More people will want to take leave in July than in February. On that basis if you have staffing high enough to cover everything in July without overtime you are going to have excessive spare cover in February. Or you need to persuade people (or force them) to take annual leave at unpopular times.

Simple maths, unless my figures are wrong.
It isn't about forcing when people take their leave days.
The rosters will only allow up to the maximum amount of people to take leave at any one time, whether that is in July or Febuary or whenever.
What happens in summer is that more people don't want to work overtime or days off, or can't because of childcare commitments. Same as other school holidays, but people notice poor service less for a week in Febuary, than they do for 6 consecutive weeks in summer.
And i will keep making the point, that if you work out how many rest days you can work in a year, before being taxed out of wanting to work them, then many people will simply choose not to work those days off, or not to do overtime, in the nice summertime period.

The answer is make the tax system more conducive to working overtime, rather than punishing it. And you'll see benefits in other roles outside the railway too.
 

Bald Rick

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I’m sorry, but I don’t see how having rest days (which human beings need), and are contractual and can be mandated; means you don’t care about your job/colleague/customers.

I wasnt suggesting you didn’t. But we all know people who are perhaps less committed to their jobs than others.
 

bramling

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I wasnt suggesting you didn’t. But we all know people who are perhaps less committed to their jobs than others.

I don’t think not wanting to work OT is a sign of being “less committed”.

In fact, on the contrary. In my experience those who don’t do overtime tend to be the most reliable at coming in and doing their rostered work to the best of their ability.

By contrast some of those who do shed loads of overtime are a liability. For example wanting to do the overtime and then blowing out of their rostered shifts, wanting stuff in return for doing overtime like early cutaways or a particular day off, throwing a wobbly if they don’t get a particular overtime deal, etc etc.

What ends up happening is a massive amount of time is invested catering for the second group, whilst the first group get completely sidelined.

I don’t see any of this ever really changing though, we could be having the same discussion 25 years from now.
 
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MotCO

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Neither schools or parents are going to be able to manage different holidays for different age groups.
And don't forget teachers can only take their vacations during the school summer holidays. I thought that once my children had left school, we would no longer be tied to school holidays, but my son went and married a teacher!
 

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