Suggestions regarding TfW Class 197 introduction

[Rhydgaled]

The Swansea-Manchester should be intercity IMO as its covering 2 major cities Cardiff and Manchester one of which is a capital city, another is seen as the capital of North England. Also there is Hereford and big towns such as Shrewsbury. It should be limited stop only calling at Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, Hereford, Shrewsbury, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport. All smaller stops should be picked up by a stopping service that runs hourly between Cardiff-Shrewsbury/Crewe in between the Manchester services.

I largely agree, however even with so few stops I'm not sure whether I would call it InterCity or Regional Express due to the level of demand only justifying 5 coach trains. Also, I think Ludlow and Leominster should have a half-hourly service. Unfortunately (unless you drop the Hereford stop on the fast) I don't think there is anywhere for fast trains to overtake the stoppers, meaning pathing the three Holyhead-Cardiff expresses each day* is hard enough already without adding another hourly service to serve Ludlow and Leominster.

* I think these absolutely should be limited to Newport, Hereford, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, Chester, Fflint, Rhyl, Llandudno Junction and Bangor stops

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

* I think these absolutely should be limited to Newport, Hereford, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, Chester, Fflint, Rhyl, Llandudno Junction and Bangor stops

I'd probably add Abergavenny to that list. I think it would be politically unwise for TfW not to offer a stop in northern Gwent.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I'd probably add Abergavenny to that list. I think it would be politically unwise for TfW not to offer a stop in northern Gwent.

That list of stops is essentially the original southbound calling pattern of 'Gerald' with Wrexham instead of Crewe and the addition of Hereford (it was non-stop from Shrewsbury to Newport). Depending on the level of demand (how full or otherwise the train is) I might even go back to having the Holyhead-Cardiff expresses not call at Hereford. Despite my suggestion of dropping Abergavenny from the Manchesters and the fast Holyheads, TfW would still provide services at Abergavenny in the form of the Cardiff-Liverpools and slow Cardiff-Holyheads (in my opinion, instead of Cardiff-Liverpools and slow Cardiff-Holyheads that should be an hourly Cardiff-Chester* calling at all current stations but not any new ones that might open in future).

Going back to the Manchester-Swansea services, I firmly believe that the proposed/speculated South Wales Metro services to Abergavenny (serving a new station at Caerleon) should run through to Hereford. This would ensure passengers from Abergavenny are provided with at least 2tph to Hereford (and the opportunity to change onto the Manchesters without doubling-back) and give Caerleon passengers the ability to reach Worcester, Birmingham etc. with just one change at Hereford. If it is not possible to provide the South Wales Metro service to Hereford then I would retain the Abergavenny stop on the Manchesters (hourly) but probably not on the Holyhead-Cardiff expresses (only three each way per day).

* I would have said Liverpool there instead of Chester but the 197s need to be used somewhere (Liverpool/Manchester-Llandundo stoppers being an obvious one) and the more-comfortable units I would deploy on the longer-distance services (such as Cardiff-Chester) can't couple to 197s and/or don't have unit end gangways to provide for portion working.

 

[Jez]

It is a really difficult balance between providing a fast service between Swansea/Cardiff and Manchester that is appealing to long distance travellers and ensuring there is a suitable service for all the smaller stations on the route. Fortunately Northern cover the smaller stops north of Crewe and most of the stops between Swansea-Cardiff are picked up by Swanline/Maesteg-Cardiff services at least when its a full timetable. So its between Newport and Crewe thats the main issue.

The fast service to Manchester probabaly could call at Cwmbran, Abergavenny and Ludlow. Its the smaller stops like Craven Arms, Wem, Whitchurch etc that slow things down. If there was enough capacity to run an hourly Crewe-Shrewsbury stopper that would solve one issue. The stopper south of Shrewsbury could then go via Wrexham to Chester and then onwards either Liverpool or North Wales.

If 197s are to be on all Swansea-Manchester services then all can continue to either Carmarthen or Milford as now. But if they are not all to be 197s as has been suggested some will just be Swansea-Manchester what happens to the Carmarthen service in the hour it doesnt go to Milford. Will there be an extra hourly Carmarthen service from Swansea to Carmarthen in order for it to be half hourly service with a 2 hourly service to each of Pembroke Dock and Milford Haven as now.