Suggestions for suitable devices for use by gateline staff

[zuriblue]

Since many gatelines have been retrofitted with barcode readers because of print at home and mobile tickets maybe all you need is a tablet of some sort with a printer that can print out a paper version of standard ticket stock(like the old PORTIS) with a 2D barcode printed on it.

This is what the airline industry have done, a few years ago boarding passes and tickets were all on magstripe stock, now you never see a magstripe, everything just has a 2D barcode.

In Germany the DB already do this, you buy a ticket using their app and it has a barcode which the ticket machine can read. On the S-Bahn in Zürich the RPIs have been issued with smartphones which can read the barcode as opposed to lugging around the big Almex portable ticket machines that the SBB use.

 

[martinsh]

Tasers and pepper spray?

How about a cattle prod ?!

 

[cjmillsnun]

Posted this on the original thread: Exactly what problems would those be?

None. Considering Linux runs most of the web servers (including those of many financial institutions).

Open source software can be inherently more secure than closed source software. There are good reasons for this. You have many eyes looking at the code. This tends to prevent people putting in backdoors etc, because they will be discovered, and also means that any security concerns will be updated far faster than closed source.

Apple uses many open source components in OS X for this reason.

 

[theageofthetra]

Given how cold most stations are this time of year pads will be useless unless staff are given those special gloves that allow touch screens to still work.

 

[cjmillsnun]

essentially the problem with open source is that is can be based on so many components from so many sources that trying to find problems if they arise can be a bit of a nightmare.
At least with the ios/WP approach you have primarily software from one source, also have the advantage of set device minimum specification so hardware performance can be more or less guaranteed.
Look at the problems we had recently with openSSL it was a massive security hole until it was updated, Microsoft's version, however, was fine.

As for connecting printers and suchlike, all tablet/desktop versions of windows (including RT) support it natively. and it behaves just like normal windows.

For something that is probably going to have to last years and is going to be expected to be supported by the manufacturer I can't see why an apple device would ever be suitable.

Look at how many security holes have been found and continue to be found in MS software. FOSS is actually better for the most part in this regard. Yes there have been a few high profile cases recently, but for the most part, the record of FOSS is much better.

 

[sor]

Given how cold most stations are this time of year pads will be useless unless staff are given those special gloves that allow touch screens to still work.

Some higher end devices claim that they can adjust for gloved use (and presumably don't need special gloves), for example http://www.motorolasolutions.com/XU...ices/Mobile+Computers/Handheld+Computers/TC55

 

[anme]

essentially the problem with open source is that is can be based on so many components from so many sources that trying to find problems if they arise can be a bit of a nightmare.
At least with the ios/WP approach you have primarily software from one source, also have the advantage of set device minimum specification so hardware performance can be more or less guaranteed.
Look at the problems we had recently with openSSL it was a massive security hole until it was updated, Microsoft's version, however, was fine.

I thought this debate had been done and dusted a decade ago, but sadly not. Just thinking about Apple, have you any idea how much open source software they use? Take a look at this page for OS X: http://www.apple.com/opensource/ and be prepared to scroll down a LONG way. iOS is based on a lot of the some software, e.g. OpenBSD, NetBSD, WebKit, etc. Search on your iPhone or iPad and you will find a list.

Probably Microsoft use less open source code, but you will find they have security issues too. And they waste an enormous amount of talent and money redoing what they could get for free.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely though the tablet would still have to be capable of printing a ticket, either your back to a custom hardware solution or your ticket gate staff are constantly having to run into the office to get the tickets they wirelessly printed.

A wifi-connected ticket printer separate from the tablet/phone, perhaps belt-mounted, might be a good option here.

Neil

 

[sor]

A wifi-connected ticket printer separate from the tablet/phone, perhaps belt-mounted, might be a good option here.

Neil

Bluetooth would probably be better than wifi, but that's pretty much how some supermarkets work, they have label/barcode printers with neck straps/belt clips that are connected to a handheld computer

 

[glbotu]

I think many people are missing the point about why open source may not be the appropriate choice. It's not because of any inherent security weakness (generally, both are about as good as the other). As a professional software developer, I have to be very careful if I use open source software, because of things like the GNU Public License, which basically states any software used with GPL software has to give up its source code. This is often part of the IP of the company writing the software solution, which means that they just have to give up their IP to the community (this is particularly dangerous in Engineering applications, but also security conscious ones, which I'd garner the Nation's Universal Ticketing System is). Whilst it's a great principle, it's not always in everyone's best interest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think many people are missing the point about why open source may not be the appropriate choice. It's not because of any inherent security weakness (generally, both are about as good as the other). As a professional software developer, I have to be very careful if I use open source software, because of things like the GNU Public License, which basically states any software used with GPL software has to give up its source code.

It doesn't, as if it did anything running on Linux would have to be open source, which it doesn't have to be.

It's if you incorporate into your system any aspects of source code from GPL-licenced software. You needn't do this - you can get plenty of closed-source libraries for things like window manager widgets.

In any case, PGP is very secure and is open-source. It's not so much about the source, it's about how you secure the data requiring securing.

Neil

 

[sor]

I think many people are missing the point about why open source may not be the appropriate choice. It's not because of any inherent security weakness (generally, both are about as good as the other). As a professional software developer, I have to be very careful if I use open source software, because of things like the GNU Public License, which basically states any software used with GPL software has to give up its source code. This is often part of the IP of the company writing the software solution, which means that they just have to give up their IP to the community (this is particularly dangerous in Engineering applications, but also security conscious ones, which I'd garner the Nation's Universal Ticketing System is). Whilst it's a great principle, it's not always in everyone's best interest.

I am not sure your interpretation of the GPL is correct, but any hypothetical ticketing application on Android would probably need to worry more about the way Android is licenced - the Apache licence, which doesn't have the same issues as the GPL, and was chosen for the reasons you cite (the potential need to have to publish source code)

 

[anme]

I think many people are missing the point about why open source may not be the appropriate choice. It's not because of any inherent security weakness (generally, both are about as good as the other). As a professional software developer, I have to be very careful if I use open source software, because of things like the GNU Public License, which basically states any software used with GPL software has to give up its source code. This is often part of the IP of the company writing the software solution, which means that they just have to give up their IP to the community (this is particularly dangerous in Engineering applications, but also security conscious ones, which I'd garner the Nation's Universal Ticketing System is). Whilst it's a great principle, it's not always in everyone's best interest.

This is a misunderstanding. Simply making use of an GPL platform or library does not bring any requirement to share source code, except in very specific circumstances. Care is needed, but practically speaking, the requirement to share is usually limited to directly modified GPL code, and even then only the modified parts need to be shared.

It's likely that your TV, set top box, router, and other devices in your home run Linux, which is published under the GPL. Try finding the complete source code for the software that runs on those.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Posted this on the original thread: Exactly what problems would those be?

precisely none, given the various flavours of *nix in Enterprise use for servers and desktops have exactly the same alleged 'holes'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bluetooth would probably be better than wifi, but that's pretty much how some supermarkets work, they have label/barcode printers with neck straps/belt clips that are connected to a handheld computer

the zebra printers that a lot of the supermarkets use are wifi devices as are the 'guns' used to generate the infor to print, although some can use Blue tooth i nthe absence of wifi

 

[najaB]

the zebra printers that a lot of the supermarkets use are wifi devices as are the 'guns' used to generate the infor to print, although some can use Blue tooth i nthe absence of wifi

Bluetooth makes more sense since there would be less likelihood of channel clash, etc. as would occur with multiple ad-hoc WiFi networks.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Bluetooth makes more sense since there would be less likelihood of channel clash, etc. as would occur with multiple ad-hoc WiFi networks.

you use one wifi network - the building / site wifi network

 

[lincolnshire]

Forgive the pedantry, but this is constant - the ticket issuing machines currently in use are named Avantix - note, there is no 'd' in the name; though I concede it's understandable why many might assume there is.

To reference a previous post, yes they do cost a fortune! I'll happily repeat previous rants and suggest that they are a prime example of why it really costs an outrageous amount to run the railway; third party suppliers who thoroughly take the p*ss, and stupid contracts which allow them to do so with impunity (not, amazingly, paying wages to all those evil Guards who are bleeding the industry dry...). The sooner the outdated, unreliable Avantix is sent to a skip, the better. TOCs are royally fleeced by a certain large contractor who supply and maintain this life expired rubbish, and they would save a huge amount by developing a superior alternative based on a far newer generic platform, which can be maintained and administered without the 'licence to print money' tactics currently suffered.

Yet another one of the hazards of privatisation of the railways, before hand it was just another department and a transfer of money on paper between departments, now its proper money going out of the organisation to pay for the service provided.

What everyone is forgetting is it may also be part of the franchise agreement that you have to use there ticketing system as most probably every franchise has to use it thereby allowing money to be transferred form TOC to TOC for parts of a journey on another TOC.s franchise.
I am sure East Coast would be pleased if Northern trains sold a ticket for example from Thorne to Kings Cross, Northern part 2 stops from Doncaster 15 min journey then swap to East Coast for 2hr journey to Kings Cross how would they then workout who gets what proportions of the fare taken by Northern?
If you don,t have a system thats nationwide Northern could just pocket the lot or turn round and say in future we will only sell tickets for our TOC area and no tickets beyond our area.
Think about it there has to be a system in place somewhere to share out the ticket money for the journeys.

 

[najaB]

you use one wifi network - the building / site wifi network

Seems a bit of overkill to set up a site-wide WiFi network to enable communication between a tablet and printer that will never be more than a couple of feet apart.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Seems a bit of overkill to set up a site-wide WiFi network to enable communication between a tablet and printer that will never be more than a couple of feet apart.

and the live database and the card payment processing ...